EastEnd1

I've been hearing about the demise of comics since at least 1980. By way of reference, I started collecting around 1972 and am 58 now. Comic circulations declined throughout the 1970s and that was supposed to bring the end... it didn't. And then the emergence of the direct market was supposed to bring the end cause comics would slowly disappear from newstands and not be as widespread to attract new readers... it didn't. And then the black and white boom and bust of the 1980s was supposed to bring the end cause so many people lost so much money... it didn't. In fact, shortly thereafter we had the explosion in comics of the early 1990s... but then again that was also supposed to bring the end because it was all built on superficial variants and manufactured collectibles. The 1990s implosion may have actually brought us closest to the end... but not really. This new grading company called CGC suddenly showed up and guess what... comics exploded again, with near ridiculous valuations (not unlike today) in the early 2000s. That eventually led to a pullback and more talk about the end and guess what... no end. A new technology called CGI made it possible for the major film studios to make truly realistic superhero movies... and comics exploded again with valuations reaching even more "insane" levels. Oh, but that was supposed to bring the end too because people would tire of superhero movies... they haven't. In fact, comic book properties have become the most valuable in Hollyowood! And the major studios have doubled down on them by using them as catalysts for launching entire new streaming services. And here we stand... superheros are more popular than ever and comic valuations are higher than ever, which very likely means that there are as many if not more "collectors" since I started in 1972. And so naturally, the talk of doom emerges again. I'm actually pretty bullish on the future... I actually see the next catalyst to further growth just starting to merge... the accelerated digitization of commerce brought on by the pandemic. Emerging company's like Rally are making it possible to trade comics (or "partial comics") like stocks... Ebay has apparently announced "Ebay Vault", a 40,000 sq ft "Fort Knox" facility to hold your collectibles, authenticate and potentially even GRADE them, and easily facilitate transfer of ownership... and Wall Street is slowly reaching its tentacles into our "little hobby" (along with many other collectibles). Folks, my own view is that the next five to ten years are going to make for a very interesting, and potentially lucrative, ride.

Wow, that was fantastic... had never seen video of those two either... thanks for sharing! Reminds us that despite his status among today's comic fans, there is no more iconic hero than Superman... that big letter "S" is instantly recognizable in every country on earth.

Agreed... the comic book market will collapse only when the superhero itself collapses. Absent that, there will ALWAYS be superhero fans that will gravitate to the original source material.

A recent article from Yahoo Finance... The Billion-Dollar Comic Book Business Continues To Boom According to Publisher’s Weekly, sales of comic books and graphic novels topped $1.28 billion in 2020, an all-time high. It’s no fluke. With a few exceptions — sales fell a little in 2017, for example — comic book sales have been rising consistently for decades. A quarter-century ago in 1996, North American sales were around $300-$320 million, according to Comichron. By the early 2000s, sales were well over $400 million a year, and by the midway point of the decade, they had topped a half-billion dollars. By the early 2010s, annual sales were over $700 million — over $900 million by 2015. In 2019, North American comic book sales broke the 10-figure barrier, and at the start of the 2020s, comic books remain a billion-dollar business with no sign of slowing down — and again, that’s just North America. According to 360 Research Reports, the global comic book industry is expected to reach nearly $4.69 billion in 2026 — up from $3.87 billion in 2020 — for a compound annual growth rate of 3.3%.

I don't remember trading comics but I definitely remember flipping baseball cards and ruining all my old rookie cards! Oh, and I did an even better job on them when I clothespinned them to the frame of my bicycle so they would flap against the spokes of the tire and make my bicycle sound like a motorcycle!

Not sure about the Slobodians but the David Toth books were sold through Heritage around 2008. Unfortunately CGC did not include a "David Toth Collection" identifier on their label (as they have with other collections), but you can easily see the books by going to the Heritage "past sale" archive and using "David Toth Collection" as a search term. There were also a number of really good threads on the Toth books right here on these boards, including a really nice one by tth2 I just read where he interviews the son of the original collector.

I LOVE the David Toth books... best collection of 1950/60s DC's I've ever seen. Wish I'd have bought more when they came to market...

Seems to me CGC simply set a business policy... the market (ie, WE) granted them the authority to determine pedigrees.

Ha... that's exactly what I thought when I pushed the button! Except I'm not exactly Braveheart committing a miserly $175! I am actually intrigued by this concept and am hoping to use this as a learning experience. I can see a lot of potential possibilities, some of them pretty revolutionary... imagine being able to sell just a partial interest in YOUR OWN key books at top dollar... though I'm not sure if Rally is the one that will ultimately exploit them successfully. Will be interesting to watch things develop... and yes, will let you know how it goes!

Well, decided to take the plunge and just subscribed to a whopping 20 shares in the Larson Batman #1! I will be a 1/1000th percent owner... very exciting! Cost me $175 net of the CGC gift coupon of $25! Decided to buy 20 shares in the Erling Haaland rookie card while I was at it. Have to say, the site was very user friendly and the process was very easy and seemed very professionally managed. We'll see. In light of all the recent Wall Street interest in NFTs and "alternative assets", I'm very curious as to where this form of investment goes.

Taking a year to render a service that can literally be turned in a day is not a sustainable business plan. To put it in perspective, that's roughly 1/80th of the average persons lifespan. And while I understand that CGC has essentially monopolistic power, the dustbin of capitalist history is littered with one-time monopolies that failed to address market issues. It's pretty obvious that CGC's price point is too low for today's market environment... if I was in charge, I'd be raising prices until some sort of equilibrium is reached... it's a business after all (hopefully they didn't hear me just say that !). And folks, I think you should expect to see that, complaints or no complaints. Absent that, I really do think they should consider a six month moratorium on modern submissions under $400. It's the area that gets the most submissions (by far, apparently) and has the lowest price point per item... that's an inefficient business model that is actually costing them money. I used to submit books worth over $200. Now, due to the crazy delays at the Economy and Standard levels, I only submit books worth over $1000. Those previously graded books between $200-1000 now go in my eBay store raw, and guess what... they're the more high demand books, and generally speaking sell fine! I suppose my purchasers may be submitting some of my books anyway, but one thing I know for sure is that CGC is LOSING submissions from ME at the $35-80 price points. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that is deferring higher end business with them. Seems to me CGC should really think about taking a short break from grading books at a $24 price point, and committing those resources to getting the more profitable submission levels back on track. Would seem to just make business sense .

Today we know that (well partly, I think demand has increased too since the mid-2000s)... but back then pressing was a whole new world to most collectors and the prevailing concern was that more high grade equal more supply and with static demand, lower value. The immense controversy over pressing at the time probably also contributed to this feeling. I'm sure you could find plenty of old discussion in the chat board archives about it.

That was actually pretty controversial at the time (and still is). But the prevailing feeling then was that the creation of more high grade books would harm values by making such books less scarce.

Yeah, I know... I've addressed that aspect too in the past... back in April I said this... I still hold to it... "I've been in the hobby since 1972, and the only other time I've seen market appreciation anywhere close to this was when CGC first appeared on the scene around 2000. I remember attending (or participating) in many of the early graded comic auctions at Greg Manning and later Heritage and ComicLink and there were very similar jaw-dropping reactions to the CRAZY prices being realized for high grade comics that were encapsulated in hard plastic. Perhaps the difference then was that the increases were across the board (ie, even with "run" books) whereas today it seems to be focused on keys. And yes, just like today, many worried that the new CGC inspired market was a bubble that would eventually implode and take down the hobby. During that event, the rapid appreciation continued for a few years as the market slowly accepted and adopted the concept of graded comics, and as more and more of them were produced and census data became more informative. It did eventually plateau, perhaps around 2005/6 or so, and then thereafter you started to see a pullback... not so much on the SIGNIFICANT keys, but definitely on the run books which pulled back substantially... I have many that I bought at the height of that market that STILL have not recovered! While the drivers of that market and this one are different, I do think we may see something similar here... that there of course will eventually be a pullback... could be in three months, six months, a year, or well beyond, impossible to predict when. But when it happens, you're probably going to see a substantial pullback on lesser keys, and fringe keys, and more modern keys (ie, the "run" books of this sudden surge). The significant keys though I think should hold up relatively well (just like they did then)... perhaps a small retreat or maybe their prices just get "parked" for a while at the new levels; I don't expect a substantial implosion... there are just too many comic geeks like me chomping at the bit to jump into any serious price reductions. One other little observation I'd make... when pressing became all the rage starting in the mid-2000s, there was A LOT of concern that the market would not be able to absorb all the newly minted high grade books... and that likely did contribute to the pullback we saw after 2005/6. But at least with regard to the ever-expanding list of keys, what we've seen since then has been quite the contrary... pressing actually seems to have FED the market, I suppose by attracting ever more participants. This is not something I would have predicted."

I've been hearing doomsday scenarios about the comic book market for just about the entire 45 years I've been collecting and I keep saying the same thing (as I will here)... the comic book market will collapse only when the superhero itself collapses. Absent that, there will ALWAYS be superhero fans that will gravitate to the original source material.

It's a start up and start ups often begin by giving away services. I've seen Rally profiled on CNBC (they gave it's Founder/CEO a 20 minute interview one afternoon). They've got Wall Street money backing them and it's likely the company will start charging fees and commissions once (and if) it grabs a foothold.

If this is successful... and at a mere $10 a "share" there's a good chance it will be... it could change everything.

Yes! And the license plate on the white Volkswagon reads "28IF"... ie, that McCartney would have been 28 years old "IF" he were still alive! Think the Beatles had a lot of fun with that conspiracy theory...

Ha... I guess to match John Lennon's white shoes! McCartney is the only one that is barefoot and with his right foot forward and Golden matched that up too with Colossus...

And here's the real deal for comparison...

I came across this pretty neat Beatles homage cover recently... I guess Michael Golden was a fan...

Think it's much too early in this recent market downturn to be making any predictions about comic book corrections.

I used Westfield as well for many years... loved going through the monthly catalog and picking my order and really loved when the box of comics showed up every month! I rarely missed an issue and could order all the multiples I wanted (which were both issues at my LCS)!

Ha, that's great! Looks very similar to mine!

My mom bought me my first comic book around 1972... it was an issue of Superman and I remember she bought it for me to get me to behave while she was shopping at Woolworth! I also remember choosing the Superman because I was really into the George Reeves Superman TV series that ran on syndication back then. My mom would drag me to Woolworth quite a bit and that's where my earliest comics came from. They're beat up now but are probably also my most treasured as they remind me of my mom. Later on in the mid-1970s, my closest friend and I went through a period of buying comics at the local stationary store... we would hang out at one of our houses, read them and then tried to write and draw our own. My character was named Astroman and his was Captain Dynamic! They were pretty bad but a fun way to pass the time. Btw, he and I wound up being Best Men at each other's weddings and we're still the closest of friends today. Finally in 1978 I stumbled across my first two comic book stores... Mike's Comic Hut in Flushing NY and Richie's Comic Den in Bayside, NY... they were both a short bike ride away. I started hanging out at Richie's on the days that new comics came out. The famous Howard Rogofsky (yes, he of the old Marvel ads!) used to hang out there a lot too. It was there that I learned that old comics had value and that I should take care of them because the better the shape they were in, the more money they were worth. But my first big "expensive" back issue purchase came at Mike's Comic Hut... a VG/FN Iron Man #1 for $8.00!! I remember being so nervous parting with that much money for a comic book... and I also worried that if my mom found out she would kill me!! Anyway, I still have that issue and it is also one of my most treasured. Oh and I just looked it up on GPA and looks like it's worth $500-600 today! Turned out to be a wise investment!!