justafan

I was thinking of a good way to tackle this problem and about to reply with my own but what you've laid out is a pretty good way to start. However, here are the key areas of conflicts with any grading standard that seems to get in the way a lot and that may need to be defined/addressed early on in the development of that "master defect document". 1. Undetectable pressable/cleanable vs non-pressable/non-cleanable defects. one of the interesting things in the Overstreet grading guide is that there are multiple representations of defects that are pressable/cleanable but only allowed in lower grades but not upper grades. one example might be large or book length bends (not creases) that can be completely pressed out, multiple non-color break shallow bends and finger bends that don't break color all over the book but with sharp corners, perfect spine, and edges, or mild to moderate soiling all over the front or back covers that is dry cleanable. Should those continue to be graded at the same level as they are now or considered for elevation in grade considering that FN/VF or VF book could soon be a VF/NM or NM+ with a good thorough clean and press? 2. Tear vs Stains: this debate may be as old as grading itself. Overstreet is pretty clear on where these fall but CGC and other grading companies treat these very differently. From collector to collector, everyone has a difference on if given a choice between a comic with a small stain to a small tear which they would prefer and the degrees of acceptability at different grades. Then there's the issue of stain type (if you can even determine) to classify whether they are cleanable or pose a potential for increased deterioration of the paper. Same for tear type. Some small tears 1/4"-1/8" are mangled affecting the appearance whereas I've seen and even missed 1" tears that were so perfectly fine that they are invisible to the naked eye in hand unless you open the cover and see the edges separate. Some small tears are in danger of becoming chipping or pieces missing where as other cut through covers and story. 3. Defect naming conventions: Overstreet provides some definitions and labels but it is far from complete. To define the defects you have to be explicit to cover all possible common defects. See #4 below: 4. Spine tick/bump/bend/crease/stress: Whether they break color or not, these are often used interchangeably and incorrectly. Furthermore, if a book has spine wear that comes in the form of 1/2" bends but only part of each bend (say 1/4") is a sharp crease and only part of that crease (1/8") show color break, what do you call them? 1/2" spine bends with 1/8" color break? 1/2" spine bends with 1/4" crease with 1/8" color break? After a press you may end up with only the 1/8" color break spine ticks and maybe some light spine stress lines. 5. Quantifying accumulation and eye appeal: Of all the issues with grading this one is the hardest and most subjective. If you look in the grading guide, you'll see interesting examples of NM books with specific defects but you KNOW that there are more defects on those covers that you cannot see than what the photos are showing you even if you are able to see the ones they are pointing at with arrows. One example is spine ticks, you may only see the color break but what about the different sizes of their associated non-color break crease or bend lengths leading away from them. And you know most of those covers have lots of shallow bends that are only visible if you angle the light a certain way. If they were to represent that in the grading guide (haven't seen a visual example in the guide) what sizing and quantity, or percentage of coverage of the cover is acceptable in various grades. Overstreet also shows a graph with a guide on acceptable quantity of defects in the different grades. What it doesn't show is the severity of each defect in each grade. It does state that a book with multiple smaller defects may grade higher than a book with a single severe defect. But where do you draw the line? Would a single diagonal non-color break cover bend up to 4" be graded higher than 4 different 1" bends on the front cover 6. Front cover defects vs Back cover defects: CGC certainly has, in the past and probably currently, given more weight to defects on the front cover than on the back. this is where the whole spine re-alignment issue surfaced but there are normal non-manipulated examples. 7. Grader state of mind: I know I'm totally guilty of this and have observed this when I've gone back and examined some books weeks or even days later. this may be the cause of the greatest swings in subjectivity when grading. Depending on my mood, comfort, or even the book itself, I have seen areas where I've totally over or undergraded a book and gone back and asked myself what was I on when I considered that defect acceptable in that grade or why I was so harsh on the book for something that even overstreet considers NM. What must we do to either clear our mind, use as a grading sheet, use the same type of lighting, or meditate to help us focus to ensure that the way we grade and assign the grade remains consistent? One last thing: Overstreet appears to be a very strict standard above what even CGC or other grading company's allow. One competitor in Australia appears to be the only one that claims to strictly follow Overstreet's standards. However, over time we have even seen Overstreet bend towards CGC's standards in certain areas. As the goal post moves from industry leaders, should we follow or try to get them to follow what makes sense to us? Solve those 7 and probably others I've missed and you can probably cut that Master Defect Document into stone for all time. That's all I got for now but I'd be interested to hear what you all think about those issues and how you grade around them.

The competing bidder that missed out on it in 2007 was the only other person willing to go that high in 2011? Or maybe just so much other better OA that auction to spend money on? or maybe post 2008 crash tempered bidding in those auctions?

Thank you. I was pretty surprised it survived that long in an old comic bag with no backboard. I was leaning towards the same conclusion; these must have followed similar test markets as the price variants. Just curious but with all the different data points in the New England area on your map was there a reason you focused on the New London, CT store? Did you have additional information about that store that it was more likely to have a copy than others? I am surprised so few have surfaced but of those that have most don't have the sticker. I guess most kids just removed it early on. I see the yellow is more common but are there other colors as well? I see a white one but could it just have been faded. For some reason in my notes I have a green sticker listed as one of the versions but perhaps I'm mistaken.

@joeypost what would you do with this one? Have you ever worked on one of these or comics with stickers on the cover in general? Do you just use a tacking iron for the rest of the book or do you have a method of doing a full humidity/heat press without affecting the sticker area? I'm imagining you with a custom pressing machine lid with a portion cut out to allow for just these such stickers or signature inks. LOL! Or does the heat/press not have an effect on the sticker and cover integrity? Just looking to see if it's worth risking having it pressed or not.

Add another one to your tracking list. I just picked this one from a collection. The OO said he bought it along with most of his comics back when he was going to school in Indiana. Some of the books still had a sticker from the store that was there at the time called New Concept in Lafayette, IN. After reading through this thread I see that this would align with your map pin in Indiana. Amazingly this one still has the yellow sticker attached and with no signs of being removed. I am considering having it graded but wondering if having it professionally pressed would be safe to do if they can do so without causing damage to the sticker. Does CGC take points off the grade for the presence of the sticker? So far I've only seen 1 graded copy with the sticker which is the 3.5 in this thread but it also appears to have cover detachment issues. Don't get me wrong, I won't even considering trying to have the sticker removed. Graded or not I love my copy and will probably be buried with it. Been looking for an affordable one since I found out about it 7 years ago!

Are ebay final value fees on comics still 10% or does it fall under the 12% for books?

Agreed, but my main point was not doing the 30-day returns was the whole reason I lost and stopped pursuing Top Rated Seller status along with the discounts. As Lightning55 explains below. Ultimately the way I justified dropping my status was that unlike Lightning55, my annual sales were less than $5000 a year so the FVF discount loss only impacted me by less than roughly around $450 which would have been the equivalent of returns shenanigans on 1 or 2 of my bigger sales but the potential ceiling for such issues was unlimited. As a hedge against risk I just accepted the loss of Top Rated Seller status (after all the only way I got there before was by my previous methods). I basically just adjusted my pricing by rolling the FVF into the price of the item and any shipping. Sales dropped on some items but I adjusted to selling higher margin higher demand items. I've been using other venues for selling the lower margin stuff. Interestingly another way it did impact me was in my buying. As a buyer I used to buy more liberally on ebay and request less returns with some items (damage in shipping or hidden defects) since I felt I could always turn around and resell to recoup funds if I found a better copy. But as ebay has gradually put the squeeze on other sellers, I've found that paying higher prices made it harder for me to recoup anything from those bad purchases and those books just sat. Hence, I've become far more picky with my purchases and more prone to return items I'm not 100% satisfied with. So my buying has also dropped considerably.

Same here. I wonder if they are mainly targeting the big sellers on ebay that dont already subscribe to an eBay shop. I saw the email last year informing of this but nothing since. I used to be a top rated seller until a couple years ago. I leisurely list only about 50-100 items a month and only average about 5 sales a month averaging $250. Its more of an obligatory hobby at this point. As a buyer I did notice when the direct cc payment became an option earlier this year and accidentally paid that way 2x before realizing it was set to the default. I now have to consciously choose paypal as the option. I prefer using paypal as a buyer for the enhanced buyer protections that may have been watered down recently, though. As a seller I never minded the 1 business day turnaround as I always strove for same day shipping since thats what i would want from a seller even going so far as to drive the extra 3 miles to drop it off at the main post office to ensure it gets processed quickly and limit the damage risk from the number of hands touching it. I was also fine with 14 day returns as I sometimes wait up to a week after a package arrives to open it (now more than ever due to covid). The move to 30 day returns and free returns is what did kill it for me despite only having 2 returns in the last 10 years for legit reasons, I was mostly worried about the abuse of this policy by buyers. So I've not been a top rated seller by new ebay standards for 2 years. I noticed the drop off in sales slightly which weren't huge to begin with. I just adjusted my pricing and listing strategies and things have been picking back up.

Lol, just looking at the bid history, it jumped nearly 30k in the last few min of bidding. Looked like 2-3 people threw out 40k, 50k, and 60k+ bids in the final seconds.

That wasn't the ASM Annual #1 cgc 9.8 white 1st sinister six that sold for over $60k was it?

As a buyer I'm fine with this and happy to spend the time inspecting clear photos listed as I will take more clear photos over a subjective grade any day. Sadly more often than not they are doctored or angled so that the glare hides the defect. I always assume a defect exists under glare or areas where the photo is cut off and make bids/offers accordingly. Especially if the seller ignores requests for additional photos or posts photos no better than the original ones. My $10 offer on a seller's $30 comic isn't a lowball, its just an assumption of a major defect where the glare, cropped, or blurred photo is. But none of this matters when the seller ships the comics without a backboard loosely between flimsy cardboard in a bubble mailer or plain envelope. The comic that arrives is almost never in the same condition than when it departed with major corner bends/creases. So back it goes.

I often do the opposite as a buyer. Me: offers low ball $15 for a $40 item Seller: counters with $30 Me: counter with $35 Seller: Accepted and Sold

@comicdonna I felt sick reading about your experience. So glad you guys made it out and recovered. What was the cause of your fire?Did you have co2 or smoke detectors in your house at the time and did they go off but just weren't heard by you or did they fail? All ya'll cali folks need to move to a more environmentally stable part of the country if you're going to collect the good stuff. Or just always have an evacuation plan. Hindsight is 20/20 so here's my evac tips both your family and your comics with comics being last. 1. Invest in good quality smoke and co detectors (don't just buy the cheapest option available but no need to buy the most expensive) and test/check the batteries regularly. They make combo units but i prefer to buy the individual co2 and smoke detectors. Put both types on all floors and near your bedrooms. Get them linked and monitored to your security system if possible. 1b. Keep a fire extinguisher on each floor and check it annually. Replace each after their expiration. 2. Buy flood and water detectors. Put them in ur comic room, near your sump pump, or any problem areas and have them linked or monitored as well. 3. Always have and practice an evac plan for you and your family. Make sure your kids practice what to do if they can't reach you or wake you. Always show them alternate routes out of your house. Make sure they know not to try wondering around looking for their favorite toy to save. 4. Have go-bags for each member of the family, stash 3 changes of clothes, prescriptions, a credit card and passport and at least $100 cash per family member. 5. For your comics, have an emergency evac plan and kit. If you already strore them in cgc boxes its a matter of picking the ones to save first. If you have them displayed, buy the boxes for them to put them into for quick grab and go. Either way I would set aside a specific box or case that you can carry with one hand (has a handle or backpack straps) for only your top 10-15 most valuable or irreplaceable CGC comics or 30-50 raw comics or OA. This is where your ultra mega keys action 1, af15, 667 dell'otto, Gerber rare, single highest graded, 9.9 or 10s, or McFarlane and Ditko OA covers will go. (watch The Accountant with Ben Affleck to see how it should be done.) Why only 15 cgc or 50 raw? Cause thats the most you can probably safely carry keeping a hand free and not be off balance while running the inferno gauntlet. But if its that bad by then you're best off just saving your life. But do make sure you have at least 2 evac routs from your comic room. 6. Label your boxes with a large simple code in the event you actually have the luxury of time to grab multiples of boxes to grab in the order of the books you would save next. I like the idea of a box of drek labeled expensive but it may be equally good to obfuscate where your actual prized comics are by putting them in something or somewhere that isn't related to comics but still hidden. 7. Insure your collectibles. This should probably step 5 but that only restores the monetary value. What are your comic evac tips

They just need to phase out the requirement for all USPS employee retirement to be fully funded and put that money back into optimizing collection and distribution. I often wonder how UPS and FEDEX would be doing if USPS wasn't tethered to that requirement.

It is likely just new company policy. Every single UPS package I've had delivered since COVID ranging from $10 to $2500 with signature confirmation has just been left at the door with a doorbell ring and them quickly running off to their truck. Fortunately im home all the time now to receive it. Sadly, this may be emboldening porch theives aware of this policy. But yeah the sig conf is pretty much moot for UPS and possibly USPS though I can't speak from experience on the receiving end from USPS. I wonder how PayPal and eBay are treating package not delivered cases even though you, as a seller, pay for sig conf which protects you against package not delivered claims.

I would fill this thread with books because I have stalked all the books that I own and stalk all the books I'm looking to buy for months and years...even modern raws. At any given time I'm stalking like 70-100 books. Sometimes I pull the trigger when the timing and conditions are right and other times its forced. Am I stalking your books...I could be. -justafan (aka thebookstalker)

Yep, no press and just rolled the dice. that's definitely a CPR candidate! So long as there's no color rub or color break from the vertical book length poly bag indent.

Here's what I got from it: OP's point: Sales threads with very overpriced books (25% or greater markup over current eBay BINs) are just as erroneous as ones with no price listed and should therefore be treated the same (i.e. modded/removed). Reality: Sales threads with very overpriced books (25% or greater markup over current eBay BINs) are just FISHING.

Not sure I'll ever top these but was a couple years after I had gotten back into collecting around 2012ish and was building up my ASM run and hunting for a low grade affordable AF15's which seemed to be going for ridiculous money (boy if only I could have known). I was at work reviewing the emailed searches from ebay for AF15s that day. I saw one in CGC 3.5 Universal for auction that happened to be ending in the next hour or currently at $5700 but the seller had low feedback and no comic selling history. I was timid as I had never spent that much on a single comic but it was graded. I can't recall if I was using gavel snipe back then but I just recall putting in a bid at $6500 figuring it would get beat by the end of the auction. I got called into a meeting and forgot all about it. Midway through the meeting I got that ebay app chime on my phone and nearly leapt out of my seat when I saw that I had won it for $5800 with free shipping. I sold it at a convention 3 years later for $15k and used the money to buy an AF 15 CGC 6.5 Universal priced at $30k at the time. Next runner up was a raw ASM 667 Dell'Otto variant that appeared to be in 9.2/9.4 condition for just shy of $3k 3-4 years ago. Pictures were not the best and I was overpaying for the grade at the time but I just wanted a copy. Got it graded and came back a 9.6! Value has since shot up to over $10k.

There is a thread on here that is littered with the CPR fails and quality assurance gaffs that CGC has had. I have a couple of label mistakes and we've seen a few over the years from totally wrong comic titles to restoration disclosed on a Blue Label that wasn't in the confines of Universal label accepted conservation/restoration notation. One thing I have learned through all this as you have painfully done so is that the CGC graded comic interior is a Schrodinger's cat. Until you crack the slab you have no idea whether that grade is or isn't legit despite their reputation. Graders are human and make errors. QA and encapsulation folks are human and also make errors. Even if they were the same people doing the grading and slabbing they would still make mistakes that would propagate all the way down the line. What I would do in the future if you were ever going to try to do this or something like this is to have the slab sent to CGC/CCS BEFORE cracking it out and let them be the ones to crack and inspect the centerfold and possibly perform the restoration to the comic you planned to use the centerfold for. This is the only way they could see for themselves first hand in-house that the centerfold was missing and have it reviewed by CGC for a reimbursement or purchase of the incomplete comic from you. When COVID-19 is no longer an issue and conventions return, you could do the same in person at a CGC booth that has a grader or qualified CGC rep present. For high dollar books I've always had them reviewed by CGC/CCS for upgrade or restoration removal. It may cost a bit more to do so.

AMC should have taken their time to respond but they are in full on panic mode right now and that was an NRA lobby-style scorched earth move meant to make an example out of Universal and hope to scare other studios away from even considering direct to streaming. AMC is hemorrhaging money ($150 million+ a month) and may not survive the summer if: 1. they aren't able to reopen theaters by June at even 50% capacity. AND 2. they aren't able to show any crowd-drawing summer blockbusters that just got rescheduled to fall/next year. Nevertheless at face value it was a poor move on AMC's part as it is almost begging studios to cut out the middleman and go direct to rentals. If AMC goes out of business, that threat will be moot because they won't be showing any studio films anyway. However, I wonder if the threat had a strategic angle as well in that they were hoping other theater companies (Regal, Cinemark, etc) would follow suit or relax their liability by offloading a less desirable film slate from Universal in hopes of courting a more exclusive Disney/Sony/MGM studio deal with a longer theatrical time. However, this may be the beginning of the end for traditional theatrical release schedules. I've never considered paying $20 for a rental but I used to always complain that I would pay $100 to be able to stream blockbuster HD theater quality movies on opening night. During this crisis, I've already paid $60 for 3 on-demand direct releases and I could keep doing this even after things get back to "normal" next year.

Oh this is so priceless. There are sooo many ways you could have made her feel more uncomfortable than she already was but what you did was probably the most excruciating. You could have also asked her to paypal you the dollar. Sounds like she was a real nut crusher. I would have picked up the ceramic palm tree with the remaining salt/pepper coconut and made her take it but handing it in such a way that it caused the last remaining coconut to fall and break leaving her with a useless ceramic palm tree then sadly look up at her and ask her why she had to come into my life and smash my nuts like that and leave?

I was hoping for a 9.6 W. It had some very pressable defects on the front and back cover (no color break) that looked like it could bring it up to a 9.6 W. However when I got it back I was stunned until I noticed a small color break finger bend dead center of the front cover I hadn't noticed before. If that was there before, then this book was already overgraded at a 9.4 with evident pressable defects and that color break. I may have just missed it but if not, then those are the risks of submitting high grade books. defects not visible through the slab may exist and risk of damage in handling the books at CGC are also a real danger.

It might get there if the mods allow it....it just might be November by the time it gets to $4k at the rate I'm going. Of course by then it'll probably be a $3k book. BTW, This post will also serve as my potentially Final Price cut to $5000 !!! I totally hear where you're coming from and agree with your explanation. I do appreciate the comments as it helps to understand what others may be thinking. My error is that 12 month GPA when I listed fall of last year was $6k. Then a bunch of 9.6's sold at auction on ebay (OW/W pages) and Clink between $3600 and $4800 which brought things way down but prices always trend lower at the end of the year but tend to pick back up in the Spring when folks get their tax refunds. Had 12 month GPA been at $4300 I might have started there. But prices have been all over the map lately. I think the Punisher show had a lot to do with the run up to $6k for the 9.6 grade and now that its off Netflix with an uncertain future with Disney, the speculation and drive of the book may have dried up. I am indeed looking to sell this book but I am not in a hurry. Just a seller taking his time hoping to find a buyer on here at a price that satisfies us both while still cutting them a deal from what others are offering even if not quite at GPA levels. I don't think GPA takes taxes into consideration does it? The arguments for my pricing at this point are that many are already getting a 5-10% sales tax discount on the price depending on what state you live in. I eat the shipping and the paypal fees which come to $200 total . Sales taxes might be another factor why prices have dropped off as you now have to factor in an extra $250-$500 in taxes for a $5000 book on ebay and other places. Sure there's a 9.6 White with a damaged case that'll need a reholder going for $4800 + $40 shipping on ebay right now. Reholder will be $30+shipping both ways.. Taxes on that in most states will range between $240 and $480 bringing the purchase to between $5080 and $5320 once taxes and shipping are factored in. Reholder may add another $90 on top with shipping. My book, at its NEW PRICE of $5000 shipped is still cheaper than anything available for sale on the market. The other ebay 9.6 White pagers are listed at $6595, $5400, $5700, $5750 some with shipping. In contrast, my NEW asking price of $5000 is already 8%-31% lower than the lowest undamaged 9.6 White being offered for sale + another 5-10% savings without charging sales tax brings the total discount a buyer is getting to the offerered ebay prices between ~13% to 41% depending on which book they buy and which state they live in. But if the Mods allowed it I would continue to drop the price until it met the CGC board market clearing price. Unfortunately I don't think they will especially after this post which I'm trying to also use as my legitimate Price Update bump but that got it removed last time. So consider this the Final price drop before it get's pulled by the mods and having to move it to ebay and FB/instagram. If it doesn't sell there I'll bring it back here at whatever GPA is at the time. Oh but I do. Too true. Might have to try other venues before starting a new sales thread with it at $4500. Here's hoping for a Punsiher movie or season 3 on Disney+ to give it a boost. Yep, and that was the peak. Probably 2 guys duking it out over an upgrade candidate and lead to my starting price point.

$20 wtf? did prices go up? are you shipping to/from Alaska or Hawaii? The standard USPS box in a box method shouldn't cost more than $11-12 on ebay unless you're adding insurance, signature confirmation, etc. The cheapest but most unethical way to ship a slab is via media mail with bullet proof packing. You're simply playing the odds and 1 in 10-100 packages may get flagged and charge you for shipping. The upside with a slab is the unpacking and repacking won't damage the book like a raw comic might get damaged from the postal inspector's man handling trying to open and inspect the contents then repackage Not recommended for anything requiring insurance especially a high dollar comic. ~ $3 The next cheapest but slightly less unethical yet highly risky way is to use a legal flat rate cardboard envelope. You can even peel back the sides of (disassemble) the envelope to squeeze in a slab with some extra cardboard and bubblewrap and then reseal the sides using USPS packing tape as long as it completely covers the slab. I've actually received a package like this. The comic survived and its more of a gamble in that often these envelopes are shipped with other envelopes and less prone to being crushed by heavy packages. However, I'd imagine they may suffer SCS a lot more from being tossed around the sorting facility. ~ $7.68 from DC to LA. -Please don't do this. The next cheapest would be using a comic slab mailer. The ones that mycomicshop and the other grading compyany used to use to ship books in. They are about 2" longer than a slab with just enough room for some bubblewrap along the long side. This will get you possibly the lowest priority rate package price. This method is cheap but you're almost asking for a cracked slab and SCS is high with this method. ~ $13 ($10 on ebay) from DC to LA Lastly would be the 1092 inside of a 1095 box in a box method. It works out to be just cheaper than the slightly more secure ComicLink method of shipping which is the slab in a padded envelope placed inside a 17x13x6" box filled with packing peanuts. ~$ 14 ($12 on ebay) from DC to LA You can also check for Regional Rate Box B options which used to be cheaper than the box in a box method to certain (close by) zones. However, the downside is those boxes are too small to fit another 1092 box into so you're going to have to make sure you pad it extra good. OR just factor in the $20 shipping and handling into your price and offer free shipping.