justafan

Yes, thank you Adamantium for clearing that up. Sorry for the misunderstanding, Kevlar. My disappointments and comments had to do with voldy's cases, not CGC's. I'm very pleased with the level of difficulty and tamper evident cracking the new CGC cases are. I am also appreciative of the safer, easier method of cracking the CGC cases provided.

I beg to differ. This does not sit at all well with me. The fact that voldys cases can be opened and closed with little indication that they had been opened at all is what I would consider to be tampering. Semantics aside, you've still demonstrated a grave flaw in their cases being able to preserve the integrity and confidence in the grade. When I buy a graded comic I'm not only buying the trust in the opinion of the graders and protection of the encapsulation, but I'm also buying the integrity of the case that the comic and label have not been compromised. Otherwise, why would I ever buy a graded comic 2nd hand?

Good to know. Thanks! hmm...I wonder what a saturday pass will be going for on craigslist that week...

The LCS is responsible for packaging and shipping and should have insured the package so at the very least, you should be made monetarily whole for it's original value at the time of shipping. If a replacement could be obtained that would be preferable but ultimately you may have to settle for the money. This is why I only submit books directly to CGC at cons. Saves on shipping and at least I have some assurances they'll be handled and packed the way they should be for their shipment back to CGC. And if they aren't and somehow get damaged along the way, you know who's at fault.

A few thoughts: 1. I think this situation should have been handled a bit more...delicately 2. with everyone continuing to post long after the initial situation had been resolved... 3. But don't put those bats away just yet, fellas. I think there's still some life left in this thread. Carry on.

Well this is yet another disappointment with their product. I've had a few issues with their processes and slabs but this is pretty severe and condemning. One of their main advertising points was the tamper protection and tamper-proofing of their slabs. While I do like their cases and the fact that they seal the label in the inner-well as this video proves, that is pretty weak if the case can easily be popped off. Not sure if that case is among 1st or 2nd or 3rd generation cases as I know they've gone through a few changes, but if that's current, that's bad.

To a point. Saturday Groupon is sold out. I'm only going Friday and Sunday anyways so I'm good. Nice groupon: $35 total for 2 days Fri & Sun!

LOL! Dang that sounds crazy! There must be a piranha feeding frenzy that happens during dealer setup. It must be quite a site to see. The hunter dealers must be watching the the loading docks and entrances like hawks for each new dealer prey that arrives and pounce on them. As a rookie dealer you'd probably have to endure some relentless offers and assaults before you even made it to your booth. Yeah, maybe I'll just email all the dealers my want list with condition and offer prices and make some pre-con purchases. At worst, the dealers can start with that as the floor and fend off lowball offers from other dealers. Guess I'll be attending Baltimore flipper con on Friday and Sunday only hoping to buy at 1st flipped prices.

I totally agree with this and I totally understand the implications and rationale behind dealer passes for help and the crackdown on the abuse. Besides, I'm not actually looking for the "Dealer Discount". I just want the opportunity to buy it from the original attending dealer at his regular or slightly negotiated price. Also, if I were given the opportunity to obtain a dealer pass I would honor the responsibility of the "help" part both before, during, and after the show. I would just have to decide if I was capable of being able to adequately provide the assistance required before accepting to purchase the pass. It seems like a jerk move to bail on something like that. It would, however, be nice to be able to actually compete and tell the original dealer that I'd be willing to pay their original price or less of a discounted price than what another dealer is offering.

Yeah this is starting to really irk me as well. I hadn't felt the impact until the last few shows I attended (SDCC, Heroes,) where several smaller dealers informed me they had what I was looking for but the comics sold to other dealers as they were setting up before the doors even opened. When I sought to locate and try and purchase from the other dealers, they either couldn't always recall who they sold what to and the ones they could I found they had it for jacked up prices (2-3x original price) or just weren't selling it. The whole point for me going to cons is to get access to dealer stock that doesn't exist in my area and the whole point of buying the early entry pass, VIP pass, or 3-day passes used to be to get access to the freshest dealer stock before the masses have a chance to pick the new stock clean but it seems that happens long before the first con attendee (without a dealer pass) gets in the door. Is this why many folks on here look for dealer passes to buy? It makes sense and I can understand why it is done (a dealer is there to sell books and make money regardless of who or when they sell it and other dealers are always hunting for fresh stock). But this creates 2 markets at the con which often puts the con goers at a great disadvantage in 2 ways. 1. What sucks about that for us regular attendees or even VIP pass schmucks who've paid more to get that early access (which now I realize is just a joke) is that we now have to pay the flipper markup on items that could have been sold by the original dealer to us for more than what he sold it to a dealer for or we have to choose not buy it at all if the price has been marked up too much. 2. Even worse: some dealers (or dealer pass holders?) who poach the stock never put that stock back up for sale at the con. It is either for their personal collection, sent in for grading, set aside for appreciation, or just forgotten/never processed in time to be sold at the con. Sucks when you have to compete with other dealers for your collection every step of the way. I think I fully understand Oakman's initial reply to this thread. Maybe I should start stalking all the attending dealers the 2-3 days leading up to the con to see what they are bringing and start negotiating a sale before they even make it to the parking lot. But I am happy to hear that dealers are not holding anything back on day 1 so if it hasn't already been picked over before the doors open, it'll be there friday. So is anyone selling a dealer pass for Baltimore ComicCon?

This is a question to all dealers on here that do shows, especially those selling at baltimore and NYCC this year but open to all others. I usually attend all 3 days but I'm beginning to grow tired of fighting the saturday crowds that make it difficult to shop at dealer booths. I'm thinking of only going friday and sunday at Baltimore and NYCC and most future shows. I do most of my buying friday and sunday anyways. I'm just wondering if dealers tend to not fully setup all their inventory on Fridays and bring out more or save their best stuff for saturday. I can appreciate that either due to lack of time to setup and the short day Friday with low foot traffic and attendance dealers may not have time to fully set up their booths or not find it worth their time/risk bringing out their good stuff on friday. I worry that by staying home on Saturday I may miss out on items the dealers only bring out satuday that i would have purchased that sell before sunday or I overlook when I return Sunday because I've already browsed a dealers booth and didn't find an item of interest on friday. I suppose I could always ask if they are holding anything back but my want list may not always be complete and I've often discovered items I'd forgotten I was looking for until I see it up on the dealers wall or table stock.

Well that's a broad range of ages but without knowing titles its hard to pinpoint who might be interested. It's also difficult to properly assess a collection's value from a dealers perspective without seeing/inspecting the books. There's a bunch of solid reputable dealers on here or in the market that I can think of. Not sure if their offers might be what you would consider but you could try just posting a list of items with grade and ask for 2 types of offers: 1 for the whole lot and another offer per each run if you're willing to sell as runs. Site unseen, those offers will be low. Or you could compile a short list of dealers and invite bids. Send the list along with front and back cover photos of all the keys to them requesting their best offer bid and then allow for 1 or 2 rounds of counterbids. Isn't there a dealer directory on here somewhere? I've dealt with Dave and Adams, Bob Storms, Harley, Metropolis, Greg Reece, Bedrock City, among others and have had great experiences buying and selling once a price has been agreed but I've never tried selling them an entire collection, just individual key books. Just remember, these dealers need to turn a profit so the bulk of value in your collection are going to be books that are liquid (easy to sell) and of high value/high grade. They are willing to take slimmer margins on those compared to the commons or lesser keys that they'll have to hold onto longer before someone is willing to buy it from them. Most of the commons and drek will get pennies on the dollar type offers. You could also offer to sell the bulk for a small amount and have the keys and more expensive books sold on consignment. That'll take a long time but you don't have to do much work other than shipping the books. You could review Mycomicshops's want list and see if they're willing to pay decent prices for some of the non-keys. how many books total are we talking about and how many of them are considered keys? If the collection is decent enough, you could evaluate the best offer with what one of the auction houses might offer you with a negotiated seller's commission: Comiclink vs Heritage vs Metropolis vs pedigree vs hakes vs comicconnect and see if a better deal could be worked out. Lots of options. GLWTS!

I've noticed this behavior too recently. Isn't this behavior considered fraudulent business practices and thus potentially illegal? When the sold price advertised is not reflecting the actual amount paid which is very misleading to future customers, it is doing more harm than if they were not listing a sold price at all. If ebay counters that its sold prices are private and only to be known between seller and buyer, then I would argue that they should not advertise a sold price or completed sale price at all. By advertising the original listing sold price but restricting access to the actual sold price they are a party to price and market manipulation. Class action suit?

man I should really just get back to work but this thread is pretty awesome and love all the great discussions and comments. Anyway I think this kinda sums it up. Ticket sales before/after sellout and this ASM 300 9.6 example are the perfect analogy for explaining why supply exists despite demand but demand prices change. It all comes down to fear and irrational behavior and short term memories. Why is it we won't pay that extra $40-50 to hit the $400 BIN when there's an auction ending and you're trying to get it for less? Irrational human behavior. We think that price is too high and always want something we consider to be a good or better deal. Then suddenly a movie comes out and speculators rush the market and sellers immediately drive up the price. Why? Demand has artificially and temporarily increased. Suddenly anything at current pre-movie market prices is considered "cheap" and a deal. So of course both fans fearing the price is inelastic for the long term and speculators wanting to get in begin to buy at higher and higher prices. $500, 600,..until...$900. (I suspect the # of 9.8's will increase due to resubs) Then 2 things happen: 1. most of the speculators enter a hold or sell approach and cease buying available copies fearing the "movie appreciation" has mostly been factored into the price and 2. most of the current market collectors quickly gobbled up copies in the run up and the rest are now facing sticker shock at the new higher floor. Hence the demand price suddenly rose to just under $900 or wherever it is now for an ASM 9.6. If a copy is listed as BIN $950, it'll probably sit there for a while. If it is listed with best offer from a speculator/dealer who got in early, you'll probably see it sell for $750-850. Now frustrated but eager market collectors who know how to use WatchCount see that as the target market demand price and attempt to negotiate for that price or just below while BIN's sit at $900+. Newer buyers and fans of Venom who weren't aware of the previous price and run up also help contribute to the new pricing. Suddenly that becomes the max market demand price. Why are collectors who wouldn't pay the $400 suddenly willing to pay $750 for it just a few months later? Fear and uncertainty of the elasticity of the price. The movie hasn't even come out yet. So in the run up and after the movie is released you'll see a price oscillation of the books and eventually a slow deflation in prices whose 9.6 prices have already come down to $750 + shipping some with best offers. Perhaps the way we should look at prices is if we want it right now but don't want to pay at current market prices would we still pay if suddenly all copies doubled in price but then one became available for $100 less? If the answer is yes, then you should probably just buy it at the current price. If you feel you know better, have patience and don't want to buy on the hype, you must remain disciplined and accept the risk having to pay more later. but you may have to wait several years and be patient to get a copy that you want at a lower price. If we all did this we wouldn't have to wait as long.

Well i just got the text that my package delivery was attempted. 10 days from ship date. Guess I'll have a little pink slip waiting for me in the mail.

TLDR: possible bubble. Too much liquidity in copies due to max demand price not yet met. Need to know what the max level of demand price per grade. I feel there's a bubble in AF15 and some comics like ASM 129. It's no coincidence prices tend to double year over year whenever a movie comes out. However, anything that goes up that quickly worries me. I suspect that a majority of the price and appreciation of these books are not only from flippers but also from owners/hoarders who have netted substantial equity in them and are 1. looking to capitalize on the prices since they seem to be so liquid (dealers pay nearly full FMV with thin margins) and 2. looking to upgrade using the sale of their undercopies to bankroll their upgrade. Many of the undercopies have appreciated at a faster rate and have come to sale due to the demand There are many collectors and even dealers that have "invested"/hoarded lower to mid-grade copies to ride the current wave. There are also those collectors of means that can't afford a HG copy but can afford a nice looking slabbed mid-grade copy but also want a lower grade reader copy to hold and read. There are several spidey fans on here that probably hold more than one copy. So I think the reason AF15's are so liquid (which is why dealers will often pay close to FMV for them and you constantly see them for sale) is because we haven't reached the max demand price per grade. Is that due to the constant churn of flippers, upgraders, and new-to-market money coming in every day that just want at least 1 copy right now and willing to pay whatever they can afford for it? Every owner or seller knows that there's a market for their copy at a current price they are willing to sell. What we haven't reached yet are prices that no one is willing to pay but we may be getting their quickly. So in the current run up of prices, these are prices that many can still afford and are willing to pay, hence the liquidity. What we need to know is the max level of demand price per grade. What is the most anyone would be willing to pay and could afford for a copy in a specific grade? When the number of people willing to pay a max price at a certain grade = or drops below the number of copies available for sale in that grade, that's where you meet the max market price which we don't seem to have met yet but who knows. It would be interesting to do a poll and find out what the highest price anyone would be willing to pay for a copy in any grade vs a copy in a specific grade.

UPDATE: So apparently it's taking the pinball route. Went north to Washington, DC, then on the 12th it went south to Richmond, VA and now it says its on it's way back north to me. Guess it has to hit every major city's PO before it arrives. Hope to find out if it actually does arrive today. If it shows an update status of being back in Washington, DC I'll know something's gone really wrong. I will have to look into UPS with CIS. So CGC allows you to ship via UPS/FedEx without using that carriers insurance? Did they just put the max value that carrier permits and the rest is covered by CIS? For CIS to cover shipping isn't that with their dealer or vendor's category of insurance?

Totally agree. If you're going to spend decent money on comics -especially if you plan on getting it graded, you have to learn to do your own grading assessment. Always use their grade as the ceiling and assess the book yourself in hand. Buy a copy of the overstreet grading guide, review CGC and the other guys graded books on heritage and practice hard at the mid-grades (VG/FN to VF). At first you'll be shocked at what counts towards the grade and how far it gets knocked down. Then you'll go through your extremely anal tight phase where you grade everything too harshly. Eventually you'll settle into a good grading mindset and will be able to properly assess any raw book you think about buying. I've seen beautiful NM looking books knocked down for things that are often overlooked such as internally rusty staples, hidden stains, torn interior pages, loose or detatched wraps, interior writing, and other stuff. Restoration and trimming can be difficult, if not, impossible to the untrained/uninterested eye. Never be shy about asking to examine the book thoroughly page by page. If the dealer prefers, ask him to handle it and open for you page by page. Ask lots of questions why they consider it the grade they do and if you find a defect you know shouldn't be allowed in that grade, mention it politely and suggest a counter grade. Often you have a better chance at negotiating if you can justify the grade but don't get into an argument. It is still the dealer's book and up to him whether or not he wants to/can sell it for a lower price. It is then up to you to decide if you want to still buy it in the condition you give it for their price. It you can't come to an agreement, just move on and keep looking.

I am beginning to feel your pain with this. I too have a registered mail shipment on its way with a tracking number that starts with a 9 instead of RR and it is taking forever. Registered Mail on USPS says it can take up to 14 days to arrive and it's really living up to its word. My shipment departed CGC on the 4th and had no updates for 4 days after leaving Tampa until it arrived in Washington, DC. For the last 3 days it has been "on its way to the destination (my address)" from Washington, DC but has yet to arrive. Here's the tracking progress thus far. Not sure if it goes out for delivery each day but then has to be sent back to DC for some reason or it really has been in Transit since the 9th (I have a text message saying it was in transit to me on the 9th, 10th, and 11th). I haven't received the pink missed delivery slip in the mail yet so it must really still be on its way. I imagine a really slow beat up USPS truck being pushed from DC stuck in traffic still miles from my home. Maybe tomorrow will be my lucky day!

I can see the market stemming from key books that are so undesirable in their current state that the only way to recoup or maximize profit is to sell the individual pages whose value may actually increase if it gives the growing mass of lower income collectors a shot at owning or a full copy over time. I can't see this happening with anything above a PR or FR graded book with trimming or water damage. However, if pages are starting to go for prices that when added all up exceed the value of a complete and decent reader copy, then we need to be very, very worried. For example 2 CGC pages just sold on ebay last month. One went for $300 for page 4 with an ad on the opposite side and another for $775 for page 1 and 2. At that rate you're looking at $3,000 to $9,000 for the Spider-man portion of AF15. If that climbs while the prices for whole books do not... 0.5 incomplete sold for $7,350 in June 0.5 sold for $5000 in July 1.0 incomplete sold for $7,200 in July 1.5 sold for $12000 in June All the qualified, restored, coverless, and non-SS books sold for far less and many didn't have a recorded GPA sale in over a year. Could those be the sources of the pages if you're not seeing as high a turnover as you do with the unrestored version? Is it that much harder to sell 2.0 and below for what you might get for individual pages when all added up? Highest amount paid for a wrap on GPA is $1,625 (6th wrap)!

Um.....no...ugh just looks like a cosplayer running to get in line at a comic convention...scratch that. I've seen better -more convincing Cable cosplayers at conventions. While the close-up glamour shots of Josh Brolin as cable do look pretty cool (and he's a great actor), they just fall way short of my expectations for a convincing Cable from what I grew up with in New Mutants and X-Force from the 90's. Can't do much about physique and frankly I get that but I'd start with the hair-style (apply receding hairline), hair color (silver/white), and find an actor from Vikings or game of thrones that has a slightly better build. Brolin just doesn't fill out the gear and clothes the way I would expect a non-Liefeld drawn Cable to appear.

I have zero interest in owning anything other than a complete copy of a comic. I hate coverless copies and single pages even more so but I'm lucky enough to both have a collecting focus where there's an abundance of copies available at affordable prices with covers and have the means in which to afford a complete copy. If I can't afford it, I don't want it in any less condition than I'd be satisfied. This might be one of the reasons I just can't jump into OA. I like the covers and pinups which go for insane money I can't/won't afford and the more affordable OA pages are just not palatable to me enough to spend the money on.

I was freaking out a bit the last 2 days having my comic shipped out via USPS registered mail last Wednesday but seeing no tracking status since the last update of "leaving Tampa on route to destination" on Friday. I finally got an update today of it arriving in Washington, DC. After checking USPS's site I read that Registered Mail can typically take up to 14 days due to the stringent requirements in shipping. If it's been more than 3 day's without a status, go ahead and follow up and see if they can at least confirm where it is and what the hold up is.

This seems like an ebay problem they need to fix if Best offer prices are not automatically adjusting the sales tax to the correct amount. So if a $100 item taxed at 5% ($105) was negotiated down to say $60 ebay should automatically adjust the sales tax down to $3 ($63). But if it was still charged at the original price sales tax of $5 ($65) I can see this as annoying but hey, if I talked the guy down to $60 from $100 that's not bad, I'll eat the $2. I would only argue if it was a more significant difference to me. Say 5% on a $500-1000 purchase where the difference between our best offer negotiations were closer to the differences in taxes and then finding out I still owe $25-50 more than what I was expecting I'd be a bit miffed. I would like to base my negotiations on the total cost including all taxes and shipping. So if ebay isn't keeping track then it's another burden placed on the seller to deal with if a customer gets surprised by it. just my +tax

I wonder if cgc would consider adding a mobile option to their grading pressing operation kind of like food trucks or perhaps even franchising locations in different cities. I'm only half joking here but I could see both the benefits and serious issues with that.