slg343

Just now, valiantman said:

Thanks for the comment... when you sold all your books, were you selling modern variants ($100+) or selling non-key issues of older books... or just runs of commons... or what? 

Sold both a lot of expenses variants from 2006-2009 range and I absolutely stopped buying those $100-$300 variants and used that money elsewhere.  I believe it is even worse now with variants dropping.  I am not a dealer buy I regularly pick up lots of say 50 books 1:1000 1:2000 type variants for a fraction of initial sell price and sell them for profit but no where near day one release prices ( I don't count this as collecting because I buy them solely to flip). 

38 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Good example.  I was specifically thinking of the Wolverine #1 (2010) Campbell variant, but yours is an earlier example of the same concept.

Your question may have been rhetorical, but let's use GPA and figure it out.

" in hindsight, back in '06, how many 181s could I have potentially bought instead with that money?" ("close to $3 grand")

Let's call it $2,800, since you said "close to $3 grand".

In 2006:

CGC 9.4 Hulk #181 was between $1,800 and $2,800, so let's say $2,300 = today it would be $8,000

CGC 9.0 Hulk #181 was between $740 and $1,275, so let's say $1,000 = today it would be $5,200

CGC 8.0 Hulk #181 was between $400 and $847, so let's say $625 = today it would be $4,200

CGC 6.0 Hulk #181 was between $223 and $400, so let's say $320 = today it would be $2,600

CGC 4.0 Hulk #181 was between $178 and $225, so let's say $200 = today it would be $2,000

CGC 2.0 Hulk #181 was between $130 and $170, so let's say $150 = today it would be $1,200

 

For $2,820 you could have purchased a 9.4, 6.0, and 4.0, so the total would be $12,600

For $2,800 you could have purchased 2 at 9.0 and 4 at 4.0, so the total would be $18,400

For $2,800 you could have purchased 14 copies at 4.0, so the total would be $28,000

Even though no copies of CGC 9.6 Hulk #181 sold under $3,550 in 2006, let's say you were able to get one for $2,800.  It would be worth $11,000.

 

Did everyone expect the correct answer for investing in Hulk #181 slabs in 2006 to be buying as many 4.0 as possible? 

Post is only 33 minutes old and Hulk 181 prices are already out of date lol.  Man this book is hot.  If you have a lead on 9.0 for 5k let me know.

5 hours ago, valiantman said:

My belief that the sudden increases in prices for decades-old key issues are due to something "new", rather than something that's been happening for a while.  I attributed that to "new collectors for old books" but you're saying it's "new behavior for old collectors".

Interesting... 

I do believe that collectors even considering paying $1,000+ for a modern Wolverine who see they could get the 44-year-old first full appearance and classic cover Hulk #181 for under $1,000 was a disparity in the market.  It made the modern Wolverine too expensive or the Hulk #181 too cheap.  Since we haven't seen the modern Wolverine variant take a dive below $1,000+, it shouldn't be surprising that pretty much ANY copy of Hulk #181 is rising higher than that.

 

 

I would fit in the old collector new habit.  late 30s and no longer have space for new books all the time.  All those sold books and saved cash has gone towards expensive keys.  Non of if left the hobby.

3 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I never expect a fast food person to be having a great day/every day while handing me a cup of coffee or cheese danish. 

My buyer expectations are to be treated fairly,  the same way I would treat them if I were buying from them.  I'm very easy to sell to.  You have a price,  I ask what type of discount can you do.  I look up my numbers.  If the numbers work we have a deal,  if they don't I state what I can pay.  If they can do them they have a sale,  if they can't I understand and move on.  

I am not expecting them to be smiling or giving me a Hard sell to get me to buy something.  

Hard sell is not being polite.  Being polite is saying no sorry can't do that price have a nice day.  Or excuse me please don't pick up those books I would be more than happy to help ..................  it really isn't hard.

Anyways completely off topic now, I was more just following up on your 1st joke. 

1 minute ago, Logan510 said:

I'm sorry, but the customer is not always right.

Bob is a good dude. Like any customer / dealer relationship, you get out what you put in. My dealings with him have always been good, but I'm not there to waste his time or ask for 30% off his asking price 

I am sure he is.  Doesn't change the fact that everything on that list can be solved with polite response.  People are people and you are working a retail business, customer doesn't have to be correct to be treated politely.  There is a subtle art to politely letting someone know it is time for them to move on. 

Here is something often overlooked.  Could be someone looking for a book that overhears a dealer be dismissive and decides he doesn't want to partake. 

3 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I would not say that over time you become jaded.  Unfortunately with customers that I know for a few years I tend to know ahead of time who is easy to work with and those who will grind you down to the point of telling them to go F off.  Now before readers of this go and say "Is he talking about me you know who you are". 

First time customers can determine their responses by a number of things that give them away.

1).  When you are tapping away on your phone I know you are on GPA.  When you see me tapping away I'm looking up my cost into the book.

2).  Flipping open the price guide.  You are a OSPG guide buyer and the only thing I need to find out is what percentage of guide type buyer you are.  Slamming the book shut quickly is not a good result on my end.

3).  Taking 3 hours to make a buying decision.  You have a limited budget and are doing math in your head to determine what percentage of the pile you will buy.  Your offer generally comes in pretty close to your credit limit or cash in the wallet.

4).  "I'm just curious" means you have NO money and are wasting my time.  Very few "I'm just curious" customers ever buy something.  The Bob or John face is what you will usually get.

5).  "What is your most expensive book".  Again you have no money and are basically wasting my time.  I'm not a museum and while you are trying to impress your wife,  girlfriend on what she should have let him buy years ago it basically results in No sale on my end.

6).  Quoting GPA will generally result in my finger tapping on my phone.  Playing games with GPA like picking which average works for you doesn't always result in good responses.  

7).  Asking me if i want to "Turn this over quick" on a $45K book and offering me $30K will result in a pretty fast response.  It is generally not a good one.

8).  Fair offers result in sales.

9).  Trade as payment is not Retail for Retail.  I am taking on YOUR expense/time of selling the book.  

10).  Commenting that you don't want to pay higher prices for "Graded books" won't get me to lower the price.  It is YOUR choice not to buy graded books.  It is MY choice to sell them.

AKA it is a retail job the same as any other.  Yet I am sure all same cranky dealers want a smile from the person handing them that fast food for their drive out of town.  It really isn't that hard to be polite regardless of the situation.  This list is just a series of excuses used to be rude.

I shop here sometimes.  Mostly for collected edition books as they have the best inventory in town.  Their store set up is also one any new shop should study.  Clean, organized and well stocked.  With that said all of their keys are over priced and over graded waiting on a sucker.  I didn't get the impression they were purposely dishonest, I just get the feeling they want to run things like they used to be when they started 25 years ago.  It is like the internet doesn't exist to them, very strange. 

Anybody in phoenix area I would recommend newer shop in Scottsdale ( Fantastic worlds)  Also a large selection of back issues and keys, many graded books with fair prices and the owner is more of a passionate hobbyist then a cut throat penny squeezer. 

3 minutes ago, kimik said:

This is definitely the direction the hobby has been trending the past decade. Trades/ominibi? are the way of the future before comics go totally digital.

You would be surprised at how many of these collectors are also dropping $5K+ on SA and even GA keys. 

Good, happy to know it isn't just me.  Marvel silver age #1s look really nice next to matching omnibus.  All space I saved selling long boxes is now used on Omnibus/HCs I most have 200 plus and the are kicking them out faster now.  They also display much better than dirty white boxes and are a better reading experience.  Also squeeze to be had on omnibus books to stay on topic.

7 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Wow,  the first honest rejection post.  I thought every collector wanted to be friends with their buyers, hang out,  do dinner, talk comics.  Should we play hard to get,  throw ourselves at you?

  

For most dealers just being polite would be a huge improvement   I kid I kid, but seriously some rude dealers out there.

48 minutes ago, kimik said:

Interesting comments re: the pre-show skim and how things work at shows. I have been doing shows locally since 1997 as a small part-time dealer (primarily to blow out stuff I did not want from collections) when I was in university, and here are some observations:

1) While there will sometimes be new small sellers at shows that have stuff underpriced, for the most part I find it that they will be overgrading and overpricing rather than the opposite. If they have something that I or other dealers want they may negotiate a bit, but more often than not deals do not materialize due to the overgrading/overpricing issue. After a couple of shows with no or low sales they either correct their grading/pricing or stop coming out. 

2) Most pre-show sales between dealers are at prices close to market. My simple rule is this - other dealers will not get the best price from me. That is reserved for my long term regular customers and a small circle of collector friends. I may have something underpriced once in a while in my back issue longs that I miss (but at that price I am still making $$$ so I am fine), but other dealers are typically chasing wall books. They either pay full market or the small discount I may give to other buyers, but that is it. Most dealers have no qualms in paying those prices since they either i) mark things up well above current market value anyway (I can't believe the prices they get in Eastern Canada for books), ii) know they have a sale right away to a regular customer and are fine making 5 - 10% to keep them happy, or iii) they want to add more copies of a key issue that is still running up.

3) As I have stated before in other threads, the hobby is trending to younger collectors now and has been since 2010 or 2011. I can remember doing shows in the 00s when baby boomers and older collectors made up the crowd and I was worried about the hobby. Now, there are a ton of new male and female collectors in the 16-30 age group that are buying back issues. The difference is they are predominantly key/1st appearance/hot cover issue collectors only. For run books, they either buy the omnibus or read the filler issues digitally. It is the Gen Xers and older collectors that still chase runs. These new collectors also are fully aware of what current GPA or online prices are for books and have no qualms paying full market for them. 

4) The hot modern variant collectors are a much stronger subset of collectors than I anticipated. I thought that this group would have died down a long time ago, and I was wrong. If anything, I see more people chasing Campbell, Dell Otto, Hughes, Artgerm, etc. covers year over year. 

You have a good pulse on the market.  Especially your comment on omnibus which is a bigger market than most people think.  There are some expensive collected issues.  I personally have moved more towards this myself.  I collect Keys slabs and match them with omnibus for reading and have mostly offloaded my long boxes.  It is how my friends mostly collect and when I sell it is what other are looking for.   If I do an auction most people will PM with got any Campbell covers type of messages. 

Flip side is these types of collectors are not the ones dropping 10k on a book, but they buy up all the $500 1st gambit type slabs.

15 hours ago, chrisco37 said:

There are ways around that.  Have you sent “want lists” to dealers prior to a big show?  Bob Storms is my favorite comic dealer.  I see him once a year in Baltimore.  A month or so before the show, I send him a list of books I’m interested in.  Some stuff is inventory on his site.  Others might not be.  

Without fail, the books are there for me to look at even though I usually come midshow on Saturday.  The good guys will take care of you.  I’m not his biggest customer by any stretch, but I’m a 15+/- year repeat.  He’s been good to me over the years.  There’s value in that.

Rick (gator), earlier in the thread, said that the good/successful guys aren’t just selling books.  They’re selling themselves too.  

I’d suggest that, before the next big show, you touch base with some dealers that will be there.  Give them a “want list”.  You’re not committed to buying everything they bring.  But they might have something they weren’t planning on bringing.  Win/Win

 

 

 

I appreciate this and I agree most sellers are selling themselves especially if they want top dollar.  I just never personally cared about that kind of relationship.  I mostly stick with Comiclink for slabs these days as they eventually have everything.  If I am going to spend the time digging at a con I am looking for deals and they just don't exist in this format anymore.  There are only so many overpriced NM98s you can look at on the booth walls in one day . 

I am west coast so I imagine the east coast cons get better items as most of the big dealers seem to be in that region.  Even at ECCC selection isn't that great. 

The business model seems to still be working for some dealers and I hope it continues.  Just supplement some of that online so I can buy your stuff

On 8/14/2018 at 12:47 PM, Ryan. said:

I see. There's probably some truth in that but only to the extent that there are actually many underpriced books available at a con, which isn't often the case.

I gave up on buying books at cons many years ago because of the pre show skim.  I understand it, if someone wants to buy your books early sell them to that person (I would).  WIth that said I spend ~$15,000 year on comic books and zero of those dollars are spent at the handful of comic cons I go to each year.  The price to effort ratio just isn't there for me to spend the time looking and I rarely if ever see something I can't get elsewhere.  I just diverted that money to artist row.  But from the looks of it Vendors still seem to do well which is great and I probably buy from a few of them with an online presence regularly.  

Smaller vendors looking to grow a following would  absolutely be better off giving those deals to common people and not the big dealers. 

2 hours ago, slg343 said:

Also you are now putting all sellers in the position of trusting all buyers that open slabs that it is the same book

This already happens and is the point of slabs to begin with.  They are graded and sealed by a third party.

Once it is opened chain of custody is completely gone and it could be any book.

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:14 PM, VintageComics said:

That's why I stated that what both the seller and buyer know (or rather knew) about PGX should be weighed.

Ultimately, the market tries to get as much as they can for a product and the buyer wants the best deal possible. Capitalism doesn't have any goodwill.

And we come back to buyer beware.

Also you are now putting all sellers in the position of trusting all buyers that open slabs that it is the same book

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 11:35 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Those terms would NOT hold up in court, were it ever challenged, I imagine.

Let's see if I can argue it in legalese: It creates an undue expectation of perfection on the part of the third party grading service, who has no financial stake in the item, and removes responsibility from the title holder, thereby creating the potential for unjust enrichment due to human error.

Yes, set aside the fact that HA owns a chunk of the Certified Collectibles Group, for the sake of the argument.

In other words, Heritage sells a Detective #168 CGC 7.0 for $25,000. I crack it, and discover it's missing the centerfold. It's now only worth, say, $5,000.

Is CGC on the hook for the other $20,000?

No! Of course not! HERITAGE is! Heritage...or whomever they represented...got $25,000 for a book that was only worth $5,000. THEY were the ones "unjustly enriched", even if by good faith error. THEY are the ones on the hook...they don't get to "win the lottery" just because CGC missed something.

That's neither just, ethical, nor probably legal. And yet, that's precisely what CGC has done...taken responsibility, often at significant cost (though there are ways to mitigate that, of course.)

Seems it would be fairly difficult to prove it was the same book removed in court so their policy would while not fail proof would likely hold because the new owner would have a very hard time proving the book they are holding was the same book removed from the holder.

22 hours ago, srezvan said:

Some JIM/Thor and Silver Surfer. As an X-Men fan, I was stoked for the Magneto appearance to replace my copy, but it's taped on the spine. Some surprisingly nice conditions on these books, other than that one. 1st Hela, 1st Absorbing Man, 1st Grey Gargoyle.

You beat me to these by ~ hour.  Look even better here.

I haven't submitted in a few months and figured they would have had this solved.  I have 3 shipments out now and hopefully they figure it out.  As someone mentioned you need good eye appeal for resale.  I have had returns due to these damn rings in the past.  Enough returns and it gets to the point that I am better off taking the small price difference that CBCS brings. 

On 7/14/2018 at 3:09 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

It is the decades-long treatment of comic books as collectibles first, and entertainment second, that the comics shop community created, fostered, and encouraged every step of the way that led to the decline of the Direct market. It's why even mainstream DC and Marvel comics struggle to sell 50,000 copies a month, in a nation of 325,000,000 people. 

Readers are going to tolerate seeing "sold out" signs before a store even opens on new comics day only so long before they give up in disgust, and that's exactly what has happened. Speculation is fine if people are ordering before FOC. Having speculators comb your store, grabbing up every available copy AFTER that is foolish and shortsighted. 

That, combined with the Museum attitude that many stores have...that is, they're showcasing what they own, rather than pricing at realistic prices, the unrelenting drive to get the highest price possible for every single item...and being mortally offended when anyone asks for any type of discount, treating people who spend money no better than those who don't...goes a long way towards explaining why stores fail. 

I spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on comic books. I haven't spent more than $500 in comic book stores since about 2011. 

And I'm not alone.

Comics specialty stores had their chance...perhaps it's time for a new model. 

This was me maybe 5 years ago.  Details are fuzzy but some normal comic I was reading and never put on my pull list had some event which sold out before my after work pick up.  That was straw on camel back.  I called in next day closed my box and now only by floppies during twice year $1 back issue blowout sales.

1. Finally Snagged DD 2 in CGC 9.0 page color isn't great but for $1050 after discount it was time to pull the trigger.
2. "Wife" picked me up Wolverine vs Hulk Sideshow which came out to $550 shipped after the discount.

Overall expensive coupon day

Straight White Male myself.  I would love to join the mixers to have a break from the other Straight White Males that are everywhere.

Daredevil 2, 3, 5, 7 in CGC 9.0  and to stop buying impulse books.

21 hours ago, Mapleleafvann said:

Such good advice as those smoking hot ratio variants need to be sold by the shop for higher prices to cover those ancillary bills.  Very good ideas you've proposed.....even the smallest personal touch can impress and improve a relationship. 

Really these should just be sold online and quickly.  You maximize profit and don't make uninformed customers angry.

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 8:37 PM, 01TheDude said:

I get that you don't like putting out stuff that is not priced yet-- BUT it might be interesting if you get into the habit of putting out a different couple of unpriced long boxes on your slowest day of the week-- perhaps promote that you will be doing this ahead of time -- and simply state that these books are inventory that has not been priced or shown yet but that you will be willing to look up prices as needed.

It would be sort of like a discovery bin and I can see how some looking for the rare find might see it as a good reason to come in on one of your slower days. Also-- if they don't like the price, you might haggle a bit or at the very least, the book is now priced and can go into the regular sales floor. 

Please make sure the plan is well advertised.  Because if I was to bin hunt and then got to the counter for look up I would never return. 

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

I took a quick glance at a couple books but nothing popped out at me.  How have prices been vs GPA?

Not sure myself but one small example is I needed DD $6 in 9.0  Put my bid at 320 and once it crossed I snagged it on ebay for $360.  It sold at just over $400 I believe.  Where ever that may be for GPA.  But after buyer fee and shipping I will need some deals to purchase.

I use GSP mostly to protect myself from paying a crazy high return shipping cost.  I sell most of my OOP omnibus books to Europe and they seem to sell faster than I can list them.  Sorry if you guys get stuck paying more via Ebay.  I will however ship off ebay to anywhere in the world at cost, but even then to protect myself I only accept friends and family payment.  I haven't had any issues or complaints yet.