CKinTO

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

The answer to who cares is "the people who want a stable, long term healthy market." These crazy spikes, fueled by nothing more than people who are afraid, is not healthy.

So, yes, I can make $500 on a book right now. And I have. It's hard to argue with people demanding you to take their money, and the market doesn't care one whit about my needs (nor should it.)  

But...when people get stuck "over"paying, it tends to drive those people out of the market, leading to a less stable market.

"Serves them right!" - granted. No argument on that point. But...you never know how people are affected, and that person who started out as a speculator may develop an appreciation for the artform, given the chance.

Granted, this is all hypothetical, but I think it's been fairly well demonstrated that chaotic markets don't tend to produce long term positive effects.

I agree here. It's fairly well-known that spec-fueled markets tend to be less-healthy and stable, and can make corrections harsher and leave the industry net-net less healthy than otherwise would have been (post crash) than otherwise would have been. That being said, market is so big, hard for any one (or group) of individuals to effect it (or slow it) in any reasonable way. The only ones who can do this are regulatory bodies (a la housing spec boom / crashes, etc.), and slow the boom so it's a softer-landing - but this of course doesn't exist in comics. 

Other point I think is helpful to point out, is that it's easy to equate a few high sales as the "new market price". Same reason why many equate GPA as "gospel" when it comes to market price. But individual comic sales are way less liquid than most markets. The stock market is the best parallel - when millions of shares trade hands daily, it's more clear that's the "market price" as hundreds/thousands of buyers and sellers have made that determination every day. In comic sales, where in a given grade, there are anywhere from 1 - 100 trades per year (and 90-day frequently is made up of <10 transactions), it's much less indicative of the "new market price". There may easily be 1 or 2 buyers who (for whatever reason, sentimental, "FOMO" as you've mentioned, has money to burn and doesn't care about overpaying, etc.) pay above what "fair market price" is. Just because there are 1 or 2 out there in the world, does not make that the "new market price".

6 hours ago, ignimbrite said:

So the Synder Capullo event was over sold and now it is 415pm and I haven't still made it in to the room essentially wasting my afternoon.

Is this Fan Expo's fault or some else's?

So I was at this as well, thought went early enough (around 1:45 for the 2:30 start) that I was 50th in line and got in the first group, but felt bad for the second group. 

What I heard was they had 2 separate 100 ticket signings originally, but then combined into 1x200 without realizing the room only fit 100ppl (agreed that was bad planning). 

After that point, I do think the FXC staff did as good a job as they could with that mistake done (big high five to Constance who I met for the first time today and thought did a good job trying to make the best of a tough situation). Fwiw, they did try to hustle ppl along in the room and make the process as efficient as possible to get 1st room cleared, though agree it probably took about 2hrs all-in for 1st group (I left around 4:15)  and definitely empathize with 2nd group that burned a big chunk of afternoon. 

Kevin, only thing I could suggest having done better (other than not making the mistake of too small room in the first place) was to give the 2nd group of ppl numbered tickets (ie. 1-100) so their place in line was secured and they wouldn’t have to come back early to get in line again. Then they could have at least utilized that time waiting to do something else (and also probably given ppl a more realistic 4pm reconvene time vs 3:30 what they told ppl). 

5 minutes ago, Ron C. said:

The Byrne and Shatner signing was difficult to say the least. After an hour and a half waiting to pick up my book and have William Shatner sign the inside cover, we had to go back to the end of the line to get John Byrne's signature (even though he was less than 2 feet away). After waiting an hour and 15 minutes more .....with the line not even moving.... I got out of line and had to do other scheduled tasks. So now I have a book with Shatner and no Byrne.

Ouch that’s rough... I got there early (around 1:50) so was probably 10th in line or so. For me, the second line thing was a bit odd, although I assumed it was because John (signing second after Shatner) would take a bit more time (+signing 2 additional things)... so if they didn’t do that, would be a bottleneck forming after Shatner and before Byrne anyways, which would be worse. 

For me, that second line for Byrne (which was technically a second line they created for the flow after Shatner, next to the main line) was only about 1min... must’ve kept growing quickly if it hit 1h15+! 

Just FYI @Kevin Boyd, I did the John Byrne / William Shatner event today. He was great, but found out he doesn’t even sign the top of CGC slabs (like on the plastic). I thought he’d at least be willing to do that, and it was just witnessed slabbing he wouldn’t do. I even said he could personalize it to me, as it really is for my collection. But he said something like slabbed books are a terrible thing to happen to comics... Sounds like his dislike of slabbed books is pretty deep... 

FWIW, I was going to get my X-Men 121 9.8 (1st Alpha Flight) and X-Men 134 9.6 (Phoenix becomes Dark Phoenix)... was a bit of a bummer, but I was polite about it and didn’t want to push back - wouldn’t have been appropriate. I was hoping to show him that there are real fans who buy slabbed books! 

Yes, I wouldn't try to make any conclusions based on bid levels before auction closes. Lot of auction behavior / psychology at work

40 minutes ago, tv horror said:

I'm sure you're gutted just because you're doing an honest living and providing a service to the fans. I don't know if this is feasible or not but how about a strong box for your rare comics with just a photo display on the wall, then if you have someone interested you can produce the actual book safely.  

Very sad that our hobby has this type of scum that ruins it for all of us... I think the above is a good idea, and I know a lot of dealers that do this for their higher level books. I also know some that don't allow any customers "behind the booth" to look at the wall closely specifically because of this risk. Can be annoying as a customer, but I totally understand when that's the policy - easy enough to view the slabs from a distance, and if I want to take a closer look, ask once someone is available. When thefts like this are a real risk, can't begrudge dealers for small inconveniences for buyers...

All in all, definitely hope that the perp is caught, book is returned, and that thefts like these remain few and far between.

I've mostly been buying up keys for my personal collection, and I've generally gone with 9.6's, especially for those where the price bump from 9.6 -> 9.8 is really large (for some books, it can be 3x / 4x the price!)

If doing for more speculative purposes, a 9.8 will be higher risk / higher reward, so I guess it depends on your conviction for that particularly book.

Only times I go for 9.8 instead of 9.6 are books where either the multiple isn't that high (maybe 1.5x the 9.6 price), or it's just not that expensive in actual dollars where it makes that big of a difference (ie. $150 vs $250)

@Kevin Boyd, I noticed on my tickets this year that we can pickup FXC wristbands early starting Tues Aug 28, but for some of the special experiences (specifically Scott Snyder / Greg Capullo, and the John Byrne / Will Shatner experiences), pickup only starts on Thurs.

I remember last year, I was able to get my wristbands and the Jim Lee signing experience ticket earlier in the week at same time. Is there a reason for this? Any chance we could pickup all tickets on the Tues/Wed for example? Thanks

@Kevin Boyd I took a look at the updated draft schedule, and it's now showing that the John Byrne / William Shatner ticketed event is on Thurs at 3pm (vs Friday at 3pm, which is what's stated in its Special Event page). Is this just an error, or is this actually being moved to the Thursday? Thx

24 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Current buyers are knowledgeable and really, really like to feel like they are getting a deal even though they really are paying your true asking price.  I don't like playing the game but when I price books at my price the books sit and sit.  Give people a 15% discount on a book bumped up 10% and they grab for their wallet.

Buyer psychology 101 - classic "Predictably Irrational"-type stuff. We are all mindless sheep!

Really interesting thread. I am that mid-30s collector who was really into comics in the 90s, stopped for 15 years, and for past few years have been feverishly buying up slabbed high grade keys of what I loved as a kid. 

I buy floppies at my LCS on Weds, but mostly indies where I want to support the creator and I read a LOT digitally. 

I love the 1 day shows (still shop at cons, but mostly to get sigs), just a few points from customer perspective:

- definitely agree I favor developing relationships with dealers who are reasonable. I really appreciate the dealer who tries to leave a little meat on the bone for buyers to feel like we “got a deal”, rather than hold out for absolute top dollar. I will actively seek to buy books from those dealers over others because I want to keep supporting those like that with my money

- there are definitely dealers out there whose asking prices are way above market and I have to assume are looking for unaware buyers. After I explain my rationale for what I think is a fair and reasonable offer, if they’re not willing to budge, I politely move on. I get that in this market, dealers may feel someone will eventually come along and hit their price. They could be right, or could be wrong, but no need for either side to be anything less than civil

- I bring cash, and I understand that dealers have to make a little too (vs eg. part time ebay sellers). The relationship has value to me, as does being able to look at book in person, no shipping, etc. so I’m ok not getting absolute lowest cost on everything

I don’t actually read this book, but have seen a few comments around from people who read All-New Wolverine and the new X-Men Red that Gabby (Honey Badger) is a good character and her and X-23 really play well off eachother. I assume the spec is that if X-23 continues to grow in popularity, so will Gabby / Honey Badger. 

Well, now that Snyder / Jock announced at SDCC their Batman Who Laughs 6-issue mini coming out in November, I assume attention will pick back up in the coming months. Interested to see where Snyder takes this, and given it's supposed to be in continuity, what the ramifications will be of the Dark Multiverse going forward.

http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/07/20/scott-snyder-reveals-the-batman-who-laughs-miniseries-at-san-diego-comic-con/

Not to state the obvious, but I’m assuming the buyer didn’t want the lower offer price to be shown on GPA because he wants the price of his book now that he owns it to be “valued higher”. As I’ve heard from many dealers, everyone wants a deal when buying, but wants everyone else to pay high so their book is worth more!

I remember that other thread, hopefully GPA fixed it before or will do so now.

Unless you really want this particular book slabbed for the sentimental reasons you mention, you could buy a slabbed 9.6 of this for $70 pretty easily (current 90-day GPA). And get that book, crack it and get it signed by Claremont. It’s not a particularly expensive book in high grade, so if it were me, think it’s worth it just buying already graded.

Very nice e-mail @Get Marwood & I! Here's hoping for a response

20 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This SHOULD have been CGC's position from the beginning. "Sorry, sir/ma'am, we're just a grading service. We don't have anything to do with creators; we're a third party service that only grades and certifies comics. If there's an issue, you should probably take it up with your customers."

That would have been the proper response. The "that's the free market, and people are free to do whatever they want with their own property" approach. And if they'd done that from the beginning, and stuck to it, we wouldn't have a significant portion of the mess we're in now, with creators angrily denouncing CGC and demanding that their signatures not be certified, despite the fact that most of them sign publicly, in plain view, on a regular basis. Again: who do these creators think they are, that they can place conditions on someone else's property? They act more entitled than actual movie stars, who could not care less what you do with your items after they've signed it, and none of whom, to my knowledge, charge a CGC punishment tax, and nearly all of whom charge significantly more for their signatures.

Instead, CGC adopted a "try to please everyone" quasi-advocate position, which is a nice gesture, and CGC believes it leaves the door open for future cooperative ventures, but it really has only served to muddy the waters, and has cost them business.

If a creator doesn't want their signature to be witnessed by someone, the answer is simple: don't sign. Otherwise...again...none of their business. It's none of their business what the owner of the property does with it, and it's none of their business who happens to be watching.

If it bothers the creators, there's nothing whatsoever stopping the creators from obtaining and signing copies of their work and submitting to CGC themselves...a practice CGC actively encourages.

This was a good post, agree that that approach would have been better for sure. So much inertia now though, wonder if it can be fixed without a really hard landing...

40 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

Catwoman #2 Gold Foil by Artgerm

Sealed poly-bagged (Will pre-screen front as usual for the best I can find)

(20 available) 17 LEFT!

$35 raw (presents NM+ or better)

1 Raw NM+ added to the pile to bring to FXC, thanks Dre!

On 7/25/2018 at 10:45 PM, thirdgreenham said:

Will see you there! 

Forest City Coins will be set up with a decent selection of CGC books across all eras. Keys, semi-keys and more! Should be around 450 graded books.  

will bring a new selection of raw books as well

looking forward to seeing some familiar faces. 

Mention you’re from the boards to get your “boardie discount” 

-Andy

Whoa, this show just got a whole lot more interesting... Andy, I will plan on stopping by!

I agree with many of the thoughts here (many of which @RockMyAmadeus has said a number of times, including on other big threads about this), and I do think we're approaching a tipping point (or maybe already have) whereby 1) fans who want to get things CGC SS'd will be less likely to do so, and 2) even resellers will start doing less CGC SS as they get hit with more and more losses / break-even books given the increased costs. And because of how this situation has developed / evolved, I do think CGC should try to get involved before this goes too far, although I can see why they're hesitant to do so and rock-the-boat with creators.

The only other viewpoint I'll offer though is to point to how the sports memorabilia market evolved (which I feel went through this same thing 10+ years ago). Athletes used to happily sign memorabilia (bats, cards, hats, balls, etc.) for free as they thought most people getting the signatures were "fans". Then as people saw resale values on Ebay for signatures on memorabilia get higher and higher, and people saw $ signs, more and more "flippers" started elbowing in and ugly stories came out of these guys boxing out children to get 10+ items signed, to immediately re-sell on ebay, etc. As this became more prevalent and stories of this more wide-spread, players started getting pissed off that others were "profiting off their signatures", started charging for their signatures because they wanted a piece of that action.

While I understand (and generally agree with) the argument that as a creator, if all you're doing is signing, it's none of your business what I do with my property afterwards. And charging more because of what the "fan" does with it afterwards shouldn't be any of their concern. But just to test that, let's flip the -script and look at it from their perspective. Assume 99% of people getting stuff signed / slabbed are doing it for resale, with 1% being "fans" just wanting a signature. And let's also assume that those 99% of people were making lots of profit on those signatures. Would it be reasonable / understandable for the creator to feel bad about this process and want to get a piece? In my opinion, yes. Which is why I can't 100% lean on the "it's none of your business what I do with my property afterwards" argument entirely.

Now of course in reality, it's not like that. I bet 10% of people getting stuff signed / slabbed are doing it primarily for resale. And I bet a majority of people who get things CGC SS are "fans" and not just straight resellers. And probably most important, in the comic book world, the condition / grade of the book drives the vast majority of the value of a yellow label book (and unless it's high grade, a signature doesn't add much, and in some times, might be net negative). So it's obviously more complicated and a number of factors have contributed to the situation as it exists today (not the least of which is that we're many years into an incredible boom period for comic book values that are keeping a lot of customers biting the bullet and continuing to pay these extra fees). I think the most damaging thing throughout the yellow label's evolution is the misconception that creators have that people who want CGC SS are not fans, and just flippers.

Iif things don't change, I think when the market inevitably turns, it'll turn harder and more violently than it otherwise had to if things were more reasonable.

On 7/24/2018 at 4:24 PM, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

Why?  Tec 850 was MUCH hotter in March of last year. The last one on ebay sold raw for $20. It was well over $50 last year.

Yah, Tec850 got hot when the Gotham City Sirens movie was rumored, although since it looks like it's on hiatus for awhile, as definitely cooled. As has GCS1.

This is separate from the whole question on what is 1st app GCS - there was a big thread on here last year arguing why Tec850 was not really a 1st app and was just speculators trying to push it as such. CGC label doesn't denote either. I assume if a movie were actually confirmed, CGC might eventually take a view.

The only reason you'd pay more for a raw book vs slabbed (and why sometimes that occurs, like on MCS as @shadroch mentioned) is if you think the raw book is undergraded, and if slabbed, would come out at a higher grade.

Per OP's question, the only thing I might add about that dealer is he may have thought you got a "steal" on your 6.0 (for whatever reason), and that the price you paid wasn't necessarily "FMV" for a 6.0. If you paid GPA, and he was trying to sell an (arguably) 5.0-5.5 raw for higher price than a graded 6.0, then while it's his choice and he can choose to hold out if he wishes, is not really a defensible position IMO.

I’m back and forth between Toronto and New York very frequently as I split time in both cities throughout the year, and one of the best things I did like 8 years ago was get Nexus. Basically never have to talk to any border agents on either side, and it has saved me over an hour+ more times than I can remember when I happened to arrive behind a few large international flights (and at least 10-20mins normally). Both my wife and I have it, and we even got it for our daughter when she was 6mos old, as everyone in your party has to have it or you can’t use it when traveling together). 

Surprisingly cheap (like <$100), you get US Global Entry included, the only downside is you need to do an interview at a border city which can take time to schedule. But if you can, just get it done and enjoy the benefits for years to come (easy renewals every 5 years). 

17 hours ago, littlebull said:

Yeah, the outer shell really is not the issue, and it may even get the same grade, not sure if anyone knows this for sure.

Well, true, but as it relates to keeping the yellow label vs green label "name written on cover", if the outer shell is cracked enough that you could take out the inner well with book, and replace it with another book in an inner well (for example from a green label slab), then I don't think they'd let you keep the yellow label (even if the inner well was intact). Just my suspicion, don't actually know if that's true or not. But I would assume so given the stringent requirements for SS yellow label.

1 hour ago, jhm said:

GoCollect gathers from eBay via automated methods and uses employees to manually harvest data from HAKES, HA, CLINK and CCONNECT. GoCollect does not display sales prices, but does list the sales and links to the original sale.

I appreciate the info. I haven’t been a subscriber since before the big site redesign. To be clear, you no longer display the historical sales prices, even though you now track those other sites besides Ebay? That seems odd, is it a licensing issue? 

I would’ve thought if you had everything GPA did (including sales prices), but added the photos / searchability / other benefits you listed, that would be a definite advantage in my opinion and reason enough to switch back from GPA (not to mention you’re cheaper)