PBruce

The result of not packing the boxes tightly by CGC in both 2018 and now 2023 as well as quality control problems. A years long uncorrected issue. When you leave empty space in the shipping box the slabs move resulting in impact damage. Packing peanuts would solve a lot of the packaging problem. 25+ issues and counting. Damage in 8 of 11 boxes from CGC so far. Over $10k in fees and nearly $3k in damage combined 2018 and 2023. Don't blame USPS in 2018 and don't blame FedEx in 2023. Just a fraction of the damage from 2018 and 2023 pictured below. In addition, 10 issues are ridiculously shoved to the right edge beyond view and those are the new holders. Wrong spacer? First pic no seal at all. Fell in half when I removed the slab from the sleeve. 127 submissions pending at CGC. I should be excited to be receiving my submissions. Instead, I am walking on eggshells hoping my submissions don't arrive back destroyed.

5 minutes ago, newshane said:

Some of the damage can be fixed by pressing. If I were you, I'd ask if they could include those services as part of your compensation package. 

Many were literally torn at the bottom edge from the inner wells shattering. My Madonna edge completely flipped over as pictured and chiseled the left corner.

I was going to start a discussion on pressing prior to this mishap as I was preparing over 400 more issues to send in. Pressing is widely accepted in the comic biz and I understand why. That being said, I refuse to have anything pressed in my collection. It's a personal preference. In the sports card biz its called "spooning" and is highly frowned upon and nearly impossible to identify. The integrity of the cardboard is compromised and the crease reintroduced very easily. I don't see why it would be any different with a magazine or comic.

Let me present a scenario. I have a valuable 9.2 (pick a book) and it is the highest and one of only two. I know the owner of the other 9.2 that exists and he had his 9.2 pressed. My 9.2 has never been pressed. I can send it in for pressing and it may come back 9.4 or 9.6.

My point is, I am willing to pay a premium for a book that has never been pressed over a book of the same grade that has. Any sensible person would choose the unpressed issue of the same grade over the pressed issue (I think).

I would feel comfortable if CGC added the fact that a particular issue had been pressed in the books description. 

37 minutes ago, icefires said:

Do you happen to have photos of the interior of the boxes immediately after opening the top flaps?  I am interested to see how these slabs were packaged internally.

Yes. I snapped numerous photos and forwarded to CGC. There is no problem with the boxes and no indication from CGC that there is a problem with the boxes or packing material. There is a problem with the product not being able to handle the weight of the contents. The inner linings shattered and that should not happen during routine USPS shipping. It extends beyond that though. Many were not compressed in their holders. And, many of the dowels were not sealed as pictured above. A combination of poor quality materials and poor craftsmanship are where this is going. CGC Director and I are working to resolve but the physical damage to the magazines can't be undone.

2 minutes ago, seanfingh said:

What evidence do you have? So far, I have only heard your own supposition and theories? Are you an expert on the mechanics of applied force to the contents of boxes?  If so, where is your evidence in that regard?

Do you have video? Do you have taped conversations admitting an intent to damage your property? (sans F-Bombs). You are coming off as a completely unhinged whack job, which I am sure you are not.  I have had dozens and dozens of cracked slabs out of the many hundreds that I have subbed.  Does it suck - absolutely. At times is CGC's QC awful - absolutely.  But there is NO evidence that CGC did this intentionally. Why would they? If they wanted to screw you, they would have given all your books 2.0s after scraping the interiors with birdcrap.

If you settle down, act rationally and demand satisfaction for the real damages, instead of pounding your shoe on the table about imaginary intentional injury, you will (hopefully) be made whole. I certainly would expect that anyway.

What I have yet to hear is an explanation from CGC. More theories from members than me. I've been doing nothing but try to have a fair discussion with fellow collectors on this board. Calling me an unhinged whack job and stating to act rationally is not a fair analysis of my behavior in this forum. I've conducted myself professionally on both posts, contrary to numerous trolls. I've had no beef with fellow members, only CGC employees. I was honest in my original post about dropping f-bombs to give a fair and complete history of what happened and I think that shows more class than a lot of the trolls on my posts have shown. I never asked for my personality to be assassinated or to be psychoanalyzed by fellow collectors. I'm left with a destroyed collection and pending answers from CGC.

8 minutes ago, newshane said:

That's very likely. 

I don't think the CGC is in the business of intentionally ruining books. That would be an unwise and very expensive policy. 

For the rest of the board, we can learn a few things from this:

1. Read the service user agreement. 

2. Make sure that you accurately state the value of your books when you send them in. As the policy states, you will only be covered UP TO the amount you declare. Lots of times, people will low-ball the declaration in order to save money on insurance/shipping costs. Bad idea if something goes south.  

Bruce, I doubt they did it on purpose. I just think the super-huge magazine slabs are garbage by design. I don't collect mags. Thankfully, I've had absolutely no issues with their comic cases over the years. 

Also, I've noticed that CGC (like Amazon!) has been going cheap on the packing lately. They used to sandwich the cases between cardboard. Now they just use a layer or two of bubble-wrap and call it a day. 

Bruce, I also suggest giving them some time to deal with the problem before going nuclear. From my experience, the CGC works pretty hard to resolve problems. 

Good luck. 

PS - starting multiple threads on the same topic is greatly frowned upon in these parts. 

Trolls caused me to start a new thread. Look at the old thread. They started on this thread too. There is no definitive value anywhere for Playboy magazines and there are dozens of examples which have yet to have a single issue graded. Determining a value is very difficult especially for someone brand new to magazine grading even though I have a very long history of grading other collectibles. Declared value is not the problem.

1 minute ago, lizards2 said:

Or how about the bottom of the boxes as shown in the pictures clearly shows it was dropped somewhere - that's why the bottoms are caved in?

Those are about the most fantastic condition you could ever dream of for shipping boxes. These two boxes were inspected by USPS at the time of delivery as I notified them that the contents I received the previous day were damaged. There is not evidence of any caving in and anyone who does mail order will agree that these boxes are in outstanding condition. USPS did a fantastic job handling the packages. Blame solely goes to CGC.

4 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

So perhaps the explanation for the damage is the carppy magazine cases and not intentional misconduct. 

I thought about that. If that is the case why aren't others member submitting Playboys or heavy magazines experiencing the same problem? And why did the damage happen to two separate orders of mine?

Just now, newshane said:

I ALREADY EXPLAINED IT TO YOU IN YOUR OTHER THREAD.

It accounts for accidental damage. Different ball game here Shane. I have too much evidence suggesting foul play and have yet to receive an explanation from CGC.

Just now, Ryan. said:

What are you saying? CGC intentionally caused damage?

Yes. The evidence clearly suggests that. The altercation during the encapsulation process, the flawless packages, and it being overseen by the Director. If there is another explanation as to how my magazines, in two separate invoices, shipped two different days, in four different perfect boxes, can be subjected to such damage, I'd like to hear it.

3 hours ago, deadleg said:

@PBruce Just out of curiosity, were your books bagged and boarded when you shipped them off to CGC and did you have them insured? 

Yes. And I have over 25 years in mail order and over 35,000 public comments on eBay the last 19 years. Priority insured and registered. Registered goes through a different process than regular USPS packages. They are handled delicately. That's why the 4 postage boxes they shipped my 50 magazines in are in flawless condition. No explanation as to why 20+ issues and holders are damaged other than it being retaliatory actions by CGC employees for voicing my discontent during the encapsulation process. The encapsulation process, and I have the email, was personally overlooked by the Director of Operations who I spoke to shortly after the altercation with CGC employees. No damage to the shipping boxes and personally overseen by the Director and STILL 20+ issues damaged? Foul play....period.

Every troll comment made on my post proves that CGC is not a place to do business. Provoked and lied to by staff. Mocked by multiple members without provocation including so-called "seasoned veterans". A long time collection destroyed. They say I deserve it. They say its karma. I say I made a bad choice by choosing CGC to grade my collection. I should have kept them safe where they have been for 20 years. I should have kept the $1500 I paid for the service and membership.
 

4 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

wtf?  

 

Some "seasoned veterans" would rather troll my posts and mock my loss of several thousand dollars worth of my collection rather than offer words of substance. One thing everyone can agree on is that this is not my crowd and CGC and I are not a good match to do business. I learned this on my very first transaction with them before any f-bomb was ever dropped. 

39 minutes ago, newshane said:

I suggest you read the CGC Service Terms and Conditions that you agreed to follow when submitting your books. Pay attention to number five.

READ ALL ABOUT IT

No one is saying that your situation isn't terribly unfortunate. I think we're all a little taken back by your attitude and behavior. I've done a lot of business with the CGC, and sometimes just happens. After all, that's why insurance companies exist.

Just yesterday, for example, I found out that one of my sketch covers came back as a green label when the proper paperwork was submitted for the yellow label. Over the last six weeks, I've been dealing with a $5,000 comic sitting in Sarasota, awaiting a reholder. Meanwhile, I have a customer who has already paid. Fortunately, his attitude is the opposite of yours. He understands that sometimes things get backed up, especially during convention season. I called the CGC three times, and never once did I raise my voice or drop F-bombs. I'm not trying to be high and mighty here but, really man, maybe it's time to grow up a little and change your 'tude?

 

 

Thanks much for the link and for pointing out #5. It's the most sensible thing any member has done. 

35 minutes ago, newshane said:

I suggest you read the CGC Service Terms and Conditions that you agreed to follow when submitting your books. Pay attention to number five.

READ ALL ABOUT IT

No one is saying that your situation isn't terribly unfortunate. I think we're all a little taken back by your attitude and behavior. I've done a lot of business with the CGC, and sometimes just happens. After all, that's why insurance companies exist.

Just yesterday, for example, I found out that one of my sketch covers came back as a green label when the proper paperwork was submitted for the yellow label. Over the last six weeks, I've been dealing with a $5,000 comic sitting in Sarasota, awaiting a reholder. Meanwhile, I have a customer who has already paid. Fortunately, his attitude is the opposite of yours. He understands that sometimes things get backed up, especially during convention season. I called the CGC three times, and never once did I raise my voice or drop F-bombs. I'm not trying to be high and mighty here but, really man, maybe it's time to grow up a little and change your 'tude?

 

 

F-Bombs addressed, character assassination addressed. At least I was honest in my post and thats more than I can say about a group of individuals assassinating the character of someone they've never had beef with. Lets move on to what members think CGC should do about the several thousand dollars worth of damage done to my property that I trusted them with or is it easier and funner to focus on the character assassination?

6 hours ago, miraclemet said:

Im gonna lead with a

 

... but then follow it up with a you have every right to be upset about the outcome of your order. Granted some of that might have to do with the shipping company, but some of it may not. Regardless, there's no need to curse and be rude when it sounds like they dealt with you properly until you started getting testy. Demanding a supervisor works for global conglomerates, not smaller companies like CGC where the "Supervisor" is not just sitting around waiting to deal with escalation cases, the supervisor you want to complain to has other things to do that you are pulling him/her away from, which is leading to longer turn around times... If every customer used up as much time as you, we'd never get our books. 

Hopefully I will be compensated without having to go to court and CGC members and employees won't have to deal with me and my time wasting.

1 hour ago, comicdonna said:

What was wrong with the other thread you posted about this?  You know, the one where you called CGC throwing F bombs six times?  Among other things.

People like you completely ignored my stuff being damaged and are hyper focused on me dropping F-bombs at the horrific customer service. You are more in tune with launching a character assassination for some reason. I know what you think about my f-bombs. What do you think about the damaged property and the product pictured above?

My first dealings with CGC.
USPS Registered Priority Mail. Postage boxes flawless as pictured. Inspected todays delivery boxes with USPS delivery man at the time of arrival.
The first 14 pictures are from yesterdays shipment. The last 10 are what I received a few hours ago. 
There is more damage than what is pictured. These were from my longtime collection. I am sick to my stomach. 
I have been in direct contact with the Director of Operations and have yet to receive an apology from anyone. 
I would like the community opinion on how I should proceed, pictures provided, and how you feel I should be compensated for a significant portion of my collection being destroyed.
 

Brand new CGC member. Not new to collecting and not new to professional grading. Collecting 35 years. Dealing fulltime 29 years. Ebay 19 years consistent. It is important CGC members know what I am going through. 

Sent in two waves of magazines. 25 magazines in each wave. 49 Playboys and an issue of Devilina. Service was "Modern Magazine" with a 40 day turn-around. First package was received by CGC 2/23 and the second on 2/26. 

These were to be the first two waves of more than 400 issues of Playboys I was preparing to send in.

3/19 Both invoices went to "graded" status. 

4/16 I called CGC to touch bases as the 40 business day timeline was approaching with no updates since 3/19. I was told my items were being encapsulated and that they would be shipped by the end of the week. I was fine with that and very happy.

4/19 No status update stating they were in the encapsulating process so I called back. I gave the customer service rep. the invoice numbers and her words were, "wow, let me check on this for you." 
She told me the magazines were being encapsulated and that they would be completed 4/20 and shipped 4/23 at the latest. I was fine with that.

4/23 I called back as there were no updates and I immediately asked to speak to a supervisor from a guy named Dean. Dean refused to transfer me and provoked me to the point I began to drop F-bombs then proceded to try to force me to acknowlendge my f-bombs or he wan't going to transfer me. I did this with SIX of their employees after calling back 6 times before getting into direct contact with Harshen Patel, the Director of Operations. 
When a customer asks to speak to a supervisor TRANSFER THEM TO A SUPERVISOR.
These entry level customer service employees aren't equipped to handle basic customer requests.
One of those 6 phone calls the service rep. thought she hung up without provocation just so she could be part of the party going on in the customer service rep. room. What she did was put me on speaker phone which allowed me to hear all the nice things they say about CGC customers. I called her out on it very loudly so the entire customer service room could here me.
I wish CGC members reading this could hear the things they say about us when they think we aren't listening. 

4/23 received the email below from Harshen Patel after we spoke on the phone.
"Hi Bruce….
I have personally checked on this and I will have this shipped out no later than Wed of this week…I am pushing for it to get done tomorrow but the latest will certainly be Wed. I will keep my eye on it and make sure this happens.
Thanks,
Harshen Patel"

4/24 tracking is uploaded for the package I sent in 2/26.

4/25 tracking is uploaded for the package I send in 2/23.

4/30 I received two packages containing 24 Playboys and 1 Devilina that were shipped 4/25. 

Packages sent 4/24 are lost in Colorado despite them being sent USPS Priority before the packages I received today. 

I opened the packages I received today immediately. NOTE: There is no damage to either boxes these were used to ship in. This will come into play later when we end up in court.

Many of the holders are not sealed all the way around and at least two exterior cases are cracked which could not have been from shipping. The Madonna is garbage now as you can see. 

The interior linings are defective. They were not molded correctly. Picture 1 shows this. They failed to seal the holders as corner dowels are completely loose on several as pictured. Compression was not used on several resulting in further damage including the 9.0 October 1978 issue with Dolly Pardon where the spine ripped at a staple. Compression was not used on the September 1985 issue with Madonna in 8.5 and the result is the magazine is now feathered inside the holder. This CGC site claims they use compression to keep the magazines in place but they can't stay in place when the dowels are loose and the interior linings literally shatter. My pictures also show two different sized holders used for the exact same magazine sent in the exact same invoice. 

I have received half of my magazines. The other half that I have yet to receive include some of the heaviest Playboys every published (SEVEN December 1978 issues with Farrah Fawcett which they boast on their page can be encapsulated safely). That package is lost in Colorado.
Nothing but problems with CGC.