steelhelmet

All Select 1. Black cover and Hitler's castle is impossible to beat.

Hi Adam, the point of my last post was to illustrate that while books like this are in the hands of true collectors like Jon Berk they will not be improved. If these same books are transferred to a like-minded collector as Jon Berk, they books will stay that way. If not, then it's possible that some of the " less perfect" books will be "improved".I noticed that you said "some" of the Nationals have been improved.Why haven't all of them been reliably rumored to have been improved? Is it perhaps because some of them are not candidates for improvement?

I apologize for the name mix-up, Dennis. And thnx for the heads-up.

Actually his MH National run was bought intact, enjoyed in his collection on their individual merits, and sold individually at the same time. I need to slow down.

<<That's what we've been saying all along.>> All I said in my last post is that anything is possible.I know now that I should have been more specific in my last post. The phrase "anything is possible" as you and I each use it, has different frames of reference here. And that's all. When you use it, you're saying that whenever the opportunity for profit arises it (manipulation) will or probably will happen and its quite common, as seen in the transparency of the auctions. It's the way it is these days.True, there are people whose sole interest is manipulation for profit. When I say anything is possible I'm only using it very sparingly when applied to Chicagos or hi-grade GA in general. What I'm saying is that the majority of these books are in the hands of collectors who just love the books, with no plans to sell.Jon Berk or Sacentaur are excellent examples of this. Also, the point I made at the start is that there are many hi-grade books that are not candidates for improvement or manipulation.Or books that fall into the hi-grade category but with defects are viewed by their owners as beautiful enough as is.These are collectors in the truest sense. It's a fine quality in a collector. These books generally stay in high grade collections. Jon Berk's Mile High National run he sold is a good example. A run of books bought intact, enjoyed in his collection on their own merits, sold sold intact. That's respect for the books on Jon's part. Recent manipulation is "posssible" as I use it in my frame of reference, but I want to think it's unlikely. The quality of such books I think attract quality collectors.

Can I add something? I just realized the true context of Masterchef's statement in his earlier post. All I intended to say in the conclusion to my last post is that CGC simply left the pedigree label off the White Rose Chicago books. These Chicago books in the White Rose collection were straight out of brothers' collection, which was assembled long before CGC or internet auctions. So I think Masterchef was referring to more recent manipulated resubs with the pedigree intentionally non-disclosed to hopefully evade past identification. It's possible, there no guarantees.

I'm back and I don't feel bad. Pretty wonderful actually. Concerning the possibility of C/P on the Cap 12 and Subby I'm happy with my conclusions and I'm 100% certain there is no C/P here. Until someone proves me wrong, 100% is here to stay. My opponents haven't offered me anything to consider otherwise. Only in a very general way, manipulation or c/p is pervasive everywhere, including Chicagos. I have the White Rose collection catalog from Heritage, and there are so many Chicagos shown and one book has a tear seal and C/P.I wonder if johnnydouble is referring to this one. I'm happy with this as exceptions are to be expected even if it broke my standards a bit. My point is that C/P Chicagos are rare.I am very happy with my findings and if other people don't agree, well that's fine. If you can find more C/P Chicagos, then Filter would be right and I would be wrong. BTW Masterchef is correct, this catalog shows many Chicago books without the pedigree label, and I own an additional one that's not in the catalog.

Hi Johhny. nice post. Are you sure the book in question is a Chicago, and not an Olshefsky copy? Anyway, I'm sure the books you are referring to are beautiful. What I particularly like about your post is your true love for Chicagos. Once you see them, you don't go back. Take care.

Hey Zillatoy, I bought 4 Chicago Timelys from you in your store back in '92. Actually 2 in the store, 2 by mail. I still have them, and they are beautiful. And they are not cleaned and pressed. Ha Ha. I'm sure you would remember me from back then. Also, it was cool seeing your Bat 1 in the store.

Yes

Filter, look at the staple placement on each scan. They are identical. Nobody can duplicate the previous staple placement position after disassembly. Susan Cicconi has stated this. Ask Susan. Also, if you've found any other Chicagos with evidence of clean/press, why not reveal them now? Jivemofo, there has to be evidence of disassembly in this case for your argument of whether or not CGC gives disassembled books blue labels to have relevance here. What does a disassembled book in a blue label have to do with this case?

Hey Bronty-I just looked at the Heritage scans on the Chicago Subby 3. Concerning the subject of cleaning-how on earth are you going to find evidence of cleaning when the 9.0 scan is set at significantly brighter settings than its 9.6 scan? The 9.6 shows so much more tiny little grain sized dots and aberrations than the 9.0 does. Two different settings- see my earlier post concerning the CAP 12. There's no evidence of cleaning-case closed. Concerning the subject of pressing-I've seen something here.The bottom right corner on the front cover of the 9.6 is sharper than its 9.0 counterpart. But that is not pressing. That corner was straightened by a quick and simple non-invasive procedure. As you know, the procedure known as "pressing" requires tremendous pressure on the entire cover. Anyway the procedure known as "pressing" would not help the 9.0's bottom corner in this case unless the book was disassembled, and the book, as clear as day, has not been disassembled. If you don't believe my statement of Chicago pedigrees not being cleaned and pressed, don't take my word for it-just ask Timely and Borock. I accept your friendly wager bet of 1000.00. OK?

<<There are no guarantees>> Agreed. But the question is, why would you automatically assume the Subby 3 Chicago is cleaned and pressed to begin with? The guilty until proven innocent perspective?

I think it's tough to make a definite conclusion when the scan brightness settings are so far apart. First is set dark, second is set too bright. On the second scan, that green stain on the lower left doesn't disappear, only appears fainter.

Actually what I meant to say was 2 different brightness settings, not levels. Sorry.

Hi, what I see are 2 scans with vastly different brightness levels.That second scan almost blinds you, hard to tell the extent of the cleaning, if at all. I see what you're saying about that faint pink stain on the first scan. Could be a localised stain removal. But I see the tight staple placement on the second scan which leads me to believe the book hasn't been disassembled, or hence, cleaned and pressed.

True statement-a pedigree designation hardly guarantees it is untouched. But you'll never see a cleaned and pressed Chicago for the reasons I stated above.

Don't know if you're kidding or not, but I seriously doubt that Chicago copy of Subby 3 is cleaned and pressed. Chicagos are uniformly very high grade with clean, white, sharp, glossy covers right out of the gate.

Ditto.

I love Cap 1, got to get one someday....

Which would I choose? The Action 1, and the only reason so is that it is worth more money than this particular copy of Cap 1. That being said, I would immediately sell the Action 1 to buy comics that I like and collect. For me personally,over the decades, Action 1 just never excited me or pushed my buttons. I feel that the cover art is weak, and, well, boring. Not a big Supes fan either. Other keys like Bat 1, Tec 1, 27 excite me on any level though.

Hey Scott, do you have contact info for Crieg Flessel? Thanks

The supply of CAP 46 cannot meet the demand....

Hi Adam, you know that I don't have any SA 10 centers, at least like what you have anyway. I like looking at that thread though.

Based on grade, I'd go with the All Winners. Both of them are winners though.