williamhlawson

If this thread was specifically regarding Marvel Hero Covers from '58-'65 the results are still sparse.  Remove westerns, monsters and war from the above lists ... still not but a few around (or are there...?)

29 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

The first one that springs to mind is Sieniewicz on New Mutants. 

I was probably 13 years old when he started on that title, and I remember picking up and reading issues 18 and up and just not digging it.  Sal buscema had preceded him on the title and his style is very very straightforward superhero stuff. Then, bam, Sienk drops in and flips the art table over. It was so out there and stylized and only got more stylized as it went on that my hormone wracked pubescent brain wasn’t ready for it. 

Years later I came back to it, in my 20’s, and I’ve been in love with it ever since. It’s now in my top five of favorite artist on title runs that I had personally picked from the stands as they were published. Even if it did take me a decade or so to be mature enough to really appreciate it. 

Better late than never. 

Mine too.  It hit me like a ton of bricks. One of the reasons I had loved him was him 'Adams-esque' style, and this was INSTANT.  My 13 year old hand began churning out letters to him asking him to stop.  Begging him to not ruin 'my X-men'.  I corrected that later by apologizing profusely, acknowledging my youthful idiocy, and getting the only commission I have ever ordered since 1985.  Change complete, just took me a lot longer than he.

I always thought of this in the back of my mind, just never really saw any for sale. I assumed they were just owned by Marvel and were in a vault somewhere.  My main resource then (late 80's to 90s) was CBG and I never saw any there as I recall, ever. I only went to a few cons and never saw any early covers there either.  I sincerely hope they exist for the sheer historical importance of the work, even if they don't show up for another 100 years (be a lot cooler in my lifetime though).

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 3:16 AM, williamhlawson said:

I expect to see a ridiculously high number in thae 41 - 50 range continue.  The under 30 result will most likely end up causing concern amongst many I presume as well.  But...many collector's I know 'graduated' to art after focusing on comics, books, toys and even posters prior to the art bug biting them.   I didn't know a lot of collectors in my 20's and early 30's other than myself actually, but boom...here we are now!  I don't know a lot of 20 something's who throw 1k around for a high quality (hopefully) splash page either.  As a book I read once said..."Don't Panic". And obviously...the answer will be 42....;)

 

What I said 11 days ago above still holds I believe...combined with learning that the age is skewing older here...it's still 42.

1 hour ago, DeadpoolJr. said:

Younger people use other platforms, this is kinda more, "serious" forum for a lot of people when it comes to collecting, though a lot fo people know it exist, or might just not post. You can find the younger demographics on Reddit, 4Chan, Instagram, and some other smaller communities

Thanks, I, being one of the 'newer' older users thought I'd found the end all, be all's of discussion forums between this and a few others.  What do the kids dig these days?  The movies have front and centered our beloved universes, the characters and their ideals are forefront, I do not expect them to fade.  The kid's are coming, they always do.  Even if they don't read the comics, they sure love everything else about them.  I have faith.  I never would have believed the characters and stories I was ridiculed for loving would dominate the world...but here we are, glad you are too!

3 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

The under 30 bracket at less than 2% is the most interesting thing about this poll.  Don't know if that reflects this platform skewing older in general, or if it reflects the art collecting community skewing older.  Probably a combination of both.

Yes. I agree with both being big factors to accuracy on a narrow site poll. This makes me wonder what younger Americans actually know about art, how they perceive it and whether that is a hurdle. Sad, but possibly true. My art teacher's rocked in the 70's and 80's, don't know if that holds true today (I would imagine it would have to, labor of love). 

Still...I'm sticking with 42

These aren't exactly well-defined actual terms I believe.  They are meant to differentiate pieces, but mean absolutely nothing in reality, except to the buyer and seller.  There are many variables and I'm certain a dealer or two has a cool algorithm to garner correct valuation and 'categorize' the page into a price point.  Variables are all over the place (artist, inker, do they have history together, on this character, the publication status, era of creation, condition, white out, paste-ups, stats, number of panels, number of panels with key character(s), character(s) involved, is there a pivotal moment on the page (the whole thing or just a scene), action, rising action, talking,. etc.)...The sheer variety and complexity of variables in trying to establish this makes it even simpler to me....A+ means I'll pay more than for a comparable example, for reasons that makes it an A+ to me.  The 'grouping' of pages into tiers is clearly inexact science, but does have merit to some degree.  A full splash of your favorite character is awesome, and not a lock at A+, no one said they were facing you. 

I know if I lived in Italy, I would NOT miss this event for any reason.  I love the concept start to finish...just not necessarily the pricing.  Wouldn't stop me from attending though.  To walk on those grounds and socialize (1,000 tickets TOTAL) with giants in the field is well worth the going rate.  As my friend said, 'that sure as fxxx ain't San Diego.'...

Serious take ...

1. Wow, those prices are a little out of line with realized published prices imo, but you aren't paying for that.  This is an 'elbow rub' while they draw type gig it appears.  At this rate, you might even catch some ink on your ear... High end event, high prices go hand in hand as well.  And go look at the event and the location in the original post. Hmmm...more on that later.

2.  Jim Lee can charge whatever he wishes, he's earned that right by any stretch of the imagination.  I can't afford it, but if I'd just won a lottery, or found my mysterious benefactor etc...why not.  If you can 'throw' this much at a commission, you have what you want in your collection already.  If I had 3 of the pages I'd spent $50 each on in the 80's(sadly I do not) I could at least 'trade' for that if it mattered to me personally.

Snowed in comedic take ...it's 10" and rising...

My first comment here was on this art festival, the scene has shifted to Jim Lee sketch pricing ... but...why???

1.  This place and event look amazing and soooo far out of my league.  How far?  Very, very but there's always next year.

2.  Obviously, the OP realized too late he had posted the location of the Cabal's Annual 'Haul to the Hall of Hidden Art' event online.

3. Phones rang, doors knocked; threats, promises, tears, and ink mixed with blood flowed.

3. Mr. Lee was contacted regarding his willingness to assist in a cover operation.

4. Prices were established, then doubled to ensure chatter would change to uptick in sketch pricing.

5. Mission accomplished.  Wait, who could be knocking on the door in this storm? Uhoh...

44 minutes ago, vodou said:

The not-skill argument is proven with just one name - Jay Anacleto. Otherwise everything of this quality would be 2x or more everyone else. The end.

Skill versus style.  Something I've been struggling with heavily lately.  My wife is actually LOOKING at my art now that I'm buying skill over style.  I don't have an Anacleto yet, but he is on my very, very short list of artists desired.  I literally won a 12 year comic art hater over with one picture of his (Black Panther cover I believe), followed by one painting by Bianchi.  "Wow." she said, "Let's get some of that"! 

We must keep in mind that certain parties with LARGE amounts of works by one artist will protect the legacy/namesake/talent perception of those artists.  Why?  They love them and won't see reason as clearly as objective outsiders will.  Also, they have $kin in the game.  NOT anyone specific, just a thought that occurs to me often.  I know I certainly am not afraid to talk up my favorites, and as always, it always comes down to personal taste, just wish mine was cheaper.

Here's the prelim as ordered from Simone Bianchi and Gloria (they are the best!)...This is quite finished and why I chose it. 

1 hour ago, MarvelComicsArt said:

Isn't that what most silver age comics were ? Soap operas of their respective time.

My wife said that in slightly different terms this week, when I complained about the drivel that is 'The Young and the Restless'.   Sigh.  She has a point doesn't she? 

 I bought my first prelim recently and probably paid the full 20%.  Worth every damn cent too.  There are some artist's for whom a prelim or initial sketch work is simply a must imho.  Just to see into the process. for amongst us, I truly believe, walk giants.  They are really moving freely and letting raw talent shine (without regard to final appearance, which they, at the very least, are aware of subconsciously).  Pencils flow freer, ideas aren't as constrained, if you're lucky you can see their excitement.

Is this planned as an ongoing annual event?  Or is this a one time thing?  What a trip this would be!

2 hours ago, SECollector said:

I really love this place . Thanks for all the comments guys. This was not an investment, so $50 or $200 value doesn't really mind me, I don't plan to sell it. Its not a legendary page or panel, but I think its cool anyway.

We love you being here (more fun than comics already right?)....but...Not legendary??? To hell with that.  This is the most legendary page ever!!!!  To you and that is ALL that really matters, but ALOT of the art guys are VERY into valuations.  You will always get lower #'s from collectors, higher #'s from dealers;  In valuation of pieces.  In sales prices.   Sometimes even in service A dealer gets 'retail' by accepting the overhead and waiting for the right buyer (which most have cultivated a horde of, so I believe their view is skewed high).   I know my values skew on the low end usually (I'm getting older and cheaper), and you still rocked it.  Learn to trust your eyes and your gut, because at the end of the day, it's worth what you will pay and not a cent more (until someone else buys it for more than that).  Just ENJOY it, it's truly great.

Way to go! Great buy and welcome to the oa universe.  Sweden too!  Makes this a top notch pick up, hold on to it, treasure it...and 10 years from now...as you're dropping 5,000 on a cover, look at it and remember what it go you into!   But seriously, great buy!

 It's a one inch Spider-man!  ONE INCH...come on... If I was you I'd buy it and sell it to one of these certain it is worth more, because then you'll see if they'd pay that.  The answer is no.  It's "RETAIL" to some may be $250 but it'll sit there, for sale, for years, so no, it's not 'worth that'...  BUT...if YOU like it...pay what YOU will.  That's truly what this all boils down to.  Good idea to seek advice here too.  You will get a variety, as you may already see.

2 hours ago, jaybuck43 said:

Peter's Parents (well LMDs from a 2+ year arc)  are nobody?  

Yes, yes they are.  Or no, no they're not.  I don't know, they suck and don't count is what I'm saying.  Felicia Hardy, however does. 

5 hours ago, SECollector said:

My question is, what would you guys consider a fair market price for such a page, i.e. a random page of ASM by Bagley?

Pages are so individual, no matter how they are grouped into # of panels, character counts in costume,, etc......THIS page...I'd say $125 TOPS and if it mattered to you personally.  I'd try for lower though.  Best of luck, let us know how this goes, and welcome to the 'one of a kind'(sometimes) playhouse...

Are you in Northern Virginia by any chance?  I'm about an hour fifteen out from D.C. and was wondering if I ignored an ad I saw when I clearly shouldn't have!  LOL...great haul though. 

I expect to see a ridiculously high number in thae 41 - 50 range continue.  The under 30 result will most likely end up causing concern amongst many I presume as well.  But...many collector's I know 'graduated' to art after focusing on comics, books, toys and even posters prior to the art bug biting them.   I didn't know a lot of collectors in my 20's and early 30's other than myself actually, but boom...here we are now!  I don't know a lot of 20 something's who throw 1k around for a high quality (hopefully) splash page either.  As a book I read once said..."Don't Panic". And obviously...the answer will be 42....;)

First off...badass. I'd love to see those pencils just contrasted (darkened) up a bit to show more, I just want to see that bottom row in pencils.  They are killer. 

Cool deal to do that, drives me nuts you have to.  Not sure at what point in time this became common practice.  I left the hobby around 2004 and art was usually a 'one and done.'   Now,  it seems multiple 'original' pages exist for many, many comics and it's often up to you to find out for yourself if that's the case.  I see some dealers sell them together, some buyers, I assume, sell one off to cover the other resulting in more splits.  I know some love the blue, I personally don't.   I have been buying Bianchi's lately and that's usually not a concern.  I did see a ghost box Beast penciled page on ebay recently, then saw a completely inked and washed version on CAF though and that just made me go on a hunt to figure that out too.  I just genuinely miss the one page per page simplicity of collecting ORIGINAL art.  Maybe I'm just the crotchety old guy already?

1.  Does it 'aid' in establishing the value of a piece for insurance purposes by 'offering' it for sale at an owner beneficial price?  Eventually, some may even sell to establish the insanity.

2.  This just makes me wonder...lets say an insurance agent wanted 3 dealer sites for comps to value your collection.  Where do YOU send them?  Let them know they'll need to inquire and wait with a few of them certainly. 

3.  Still my greatest fear is that 'for sale' price influences the value it can be insured for.   Business model questions and all.   Too much greatness in questionable hands, imho.

4.  Too many crime novels as a kid, my bad.

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:44 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

There are literally millions of OA pages out there. Vast majority of it is sitting, and sitting, and sitting, etc. 

Sorry if asked before.  Millions?  How many?  I'm just curious as to the best guessed actual figure utilized in the hobby.  I'm assuming it was figured out by someone at some point in time. 

Sheesh...golden age to present U.S. publishers only with original art in those issues as an approximate page count (excluding reprint page counts would be a doctoral thesis probably). 

To me the only thing that dictates value is what I would pay for a piece individually.  Which (unfortunately) is influenced by the under bidder (scrupulous or otherwise), the dealer, the artist, other collectors, availability of material, rarity, age, hot material status,  premiums, my wife...oh crud forget all the above.  My wife dictates the value of a piece.   At least she cares right?

The single greatest comic book publication of all time, start to finish.  Period.  THANK YOU for ensuring these are still here.

No doubt.  My wife liked mine so much she junked hers and grabbed one today too.

...and as for this being the 'literal' first appearance?  There is some chance that the cover owner would tend to disagree.  If I had it , I certainly would.

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 1:42 PM, vodou said:

but for more on fine art printmaking/standards: http://www.ifpda.org/glossary

wow...that was bookmarked quickly.  Great information, clear and concise.

So glad to see these covers getting love.  Always thought this was the most under appreciated run of covers in 'my history' (mid-70's up).  Those covers at the end of the run (124 up) were off the charts good.  I remember as a teen buying them monthly for the covers only, cracking them open and deciding to read them later.  Frank Cirocco's 125 and 130 were the reason I bought and loved Alien Legion.   Issue 130's Valkyrie, WOW.  136's Demon.  147's Steranko Fury swipe!  PLUS.. Adams, Mignola, Nowlan 128!, Sienkiewicz, etc.  Worth taking the time to look at them.