Donutsdad

On 12/25/2023 at 10:46 AM, MAR1979 said:

While you are correct that it should occur, 1-6 ain't never happening.

#5 IRS? The scammer is getting their paypouts from services that report, at least eBay and Paypal do, thus IRS could not care less how the income is made as long as they get every single cent of their money.

As for 7, and as much as it pains for me to say this would not have occurred with their current slabs.

I don't quite understand what your last line means...."As for 7..."

How does this not occur?

On 12/25/2023 at 11:14 AM, comicwiz said:

I don't want to get argumentative here, but I strongly beg to differe. This is more akin to an auto manufacturer discovering that the flex hose they equipped a fleet of vehicles malfunctions under certain pressure condition, that also disables the sensors on the brakes from funcitoning properly. Rather than issuing a recall, they put out some obscure form stating they will cover the repairs up to 15 years should an issue happen, not send a letter or notice to any of the car owners, and when something happens, they blame it on the driver for being negligent and not doing their part to check their brakes, drain and refil their brake fluid every six months. 

When we are talking about a self-appointed impartial third-party that has a made-up work that functions as a euphanism for "warranty" or some type of guarantee, then you need to use the right comparison, and that needs to be on the level of a fundamental safety flaw that could cause a catastrophic event.

No argument from me...I think the problem is that a simple reholdering is no longer viable.  Every book in the door needs a full grading.

I am not sure if the word "Guarentee" extends beyond identifying the book itself as being original and not a facsimile.  The GRADE part, I don't think TECHNICALLY has to be correct because its being done by a fallable human being.  If the submitter only requested a reholder, CGC might not be liable since they had no obligation to review the grade itself.  Civil liability might still be not warranted ...but I am not a judge...I just sound like one in person...lol

On 12/25/2023 at 11:07 AM, MAR1979 said:

Except in this case the correct metaphor would be; Bad Actor Figured out how to roll the odometer back then sends vehicle back to the auto company where they auto company performs the work of rolling it back. Thus a Civil suit against the Auto Company for negligence at the very least, could easily make it into a courtroom.

I think you are correct, it's obvious that the "re-holdering" can not remain viable.  Every book that comes in the door needs a brand new grading. 

On 12/25/2023 at 10:54 AM, MAR1979 said:

I could definitively see the following books for example taking hits unless they are in a Gen 1 or Gen 2 slab:

ASM 238
ASM 252
ASM 300
Hulk 181
Hulk 340

Feel free to add to above list.

Sadly folks like me who have clean self-submitted books on the list would be hurt as well in event we go to sell.  CGC's parent company has less than zero care with aftermarket sales, unless it's book they can brag about on their Home page like Detective 27 or Amazing Fantasy 15. It's important to remember this is a pump and dump by Blackstone. IF profits trend down below what ever their already determined threshold they will simply sell off CGC.

Any book whose market price between a 9.6 and a 9.8 is a multiple and census numbers are very high....

Makes the case that many 9.8 cgc universal books will be less sought after unless we know all those certification on the books he submitted.

This kind of fraud would be very tough on anything other than a book with easily visible flaws.  I doubt this would as easy to commit on a silver age/golden age book

Sadly , those that bought these books, are most likely out those monies.  Unless they catch the bad guy.....

On 12/22/2023 at 1:40 PM, agamoto said:

The problem is, there's absolutely no way of knowing how many others out there have also taken advantage of this process flaw in the same way. The bulk of any blame needs to rest at the feet of the company who dares to call themselves Certify Guaranty Company. 

Beg to differ, but no auto company gets sued because some crook figured out how to roll the odometer back. This is a similar intrusion on their best efforts. 

You also have to remember, that the "purp" didn't seem to reseal the clamshell himself after he swapped out the book. He got someone at CGC to probably unknowingly become his pawn. 

Reholdering might become a thing of the past....and with good reason. You want a new clamshell? You get a new grade as well.

There are several issues that CGC needs to deal with.

1. CGC needs to be fully transparent about what they know and the time frame they were notified or discovered this person had found a possible/probable loophole in the reholdering process.

2. CGC needs to create a way for buyers/sellers to confirm through a CGC search that there is only ONE certification number out for any one particular book.  It's obvious that CGC was not looking at this as a possible fraudulent threat, now they should.

3. CGC needs to create an additional barrier to prevent books from being removed/replaced from their holders. IE any removal of book creates a complete destruction of the slab itself so it cannot be returned and reholdered. Forcing book to be fully graded again and a new shell used.   Label itself should be glued directly onto sleeve AND clamshell so that it would tear if someone tried to remove it, even with solvent or heat. The interior MUST be tamperproof.

4. CGC PR dept needs to go public because NOT doing so, creates a void in information and people who view 3rd party grading, encapsulation negatively will tarnish the process, trust in the grading process and protection of their book and grade itself.  TRUST that this will not happen again will guard against their brand being deminished and creating another layer to protect the book/grade will preserve this relationship between collectors and CGC.

5. CGC must alert local, state and federal authorities as this fraud crosses many lines.  The bad guy should be charged with wire fraud, as well as IRS tax evasion.  EBAY/PAYPAL also needs to be in on this as bank accounts need to be frozen.  

6. All titles and issue numbers need to be pulled from this person submissions and posted to the CGC website so that current owners of the tampered books can have CGC regrade (free) and reholder(free) and shipping free to create new trusts that book is what the label says it is.  ALSO a check needs to be done for anyone doing similar actions, IE reholdering books above some number that would create a red flag. Obviously this person sent in hundreds if not a few thousand books using this process.  Any reholdering request above 1 per month should raise a red flag and person's account should be monitored.

7. CBCS should be looking at this threat (it is a threat to their business model) and then looking at their own clamshells for ways someone can subvert the integrity of book/process//trust. 

I'm In 

Brittany M. I went to that link...and it does not give a break out of each (example ...fantastic four #1 signed by Stan Lee in EACH grade...I can get more info from GPA for CGC books...as for "Cheeky Monkey"...is it really necessary for you to be both wrong and incorrect and still yet call me a "tool" for no reason?......why did you even bother to reply to my posting ...just so you can call someone out?...

I am tired of not knowing how many books in grades are either signed or not.  For example...if I want to buy an X-Men 94 in CGC 9.4 grade but want it signed by Claremont...I have NO IDEA how many are out there...but of course...CGC DOES.  Why doesn't CGC give us this info since it clearly collects this information?