jas1vans

On 4/3/2024 at 8:33 AM, Sigur Ros said:

It's pretty easy to just click the white arrow.

The easy stuff is rarely worth it.

I didn't watch.

Did that video shed any new light on this?

Count me in please.

On 3/24/2024 at 9:22 AM, grendel013 said:

This is where CGC would be responsible 100%. HOWEVER, this is where the theory of having an insider assisting the scammer comes into play. With two court cases going on simultaneously (one against scammers, one against former employees) it's hard to not at least contemplate the two incidents being related.

I was under the impression they were unrelated. I thought that the two alleged scammers were submitting books shown to be swapped as far back as 2016 where the former employees were only employed at CGC for a short period of time more recently.

"When a book is sent in for a reholder service the book is removed from its outer shell and its inner well. Both must be replaced as the crack-out process can cause damage and scuffing to the inner well."

That was the quote from CGC's CS rep. If this is actually the case, how much of the blame is on the alleged scammers and how much is on the company who does not follow their own protocols? I'm not trying to blame CGC completely, but if they aren't following their own rules, it's really tough to feel any sympathy for them.

It's a shame that CGC can't take high res scans, create accurate grader notes, and encapsulate and send the books in question back to their owners. Ensure their condition until/if they were needed further. Then they could decide what to do about making those people whole. No book and no compensation seems like a real Richard move to me.

I remember a discussion about this in the grading section. I think it was considered a manufacturing defect and didn't count against the grade, but I'm not 100% on that.

On 3/1/2024 at 12:00 AM, Larice Walker said:

My MIL bought them new and has had them in storage since 1962/1964.

Our MIL's must get their food from the same grocery store. Mine is full of s**t too!

Did the "kid" put red ink anywhere else on the book?

Do you have proof of payment to the comic shop owner? An invoice stating what you paid for?

What evidence do you have that these books are yours, that you paid for the submission, etc?

Were the books shipped to you or the comic shop? I was under the impression all submissions were sent ONLY to the address on the account.

On 2/19/2024 at 2:01 PM, Blindeagle said:

Anyone have the pics? i guess because its so old - the links for the pics are gone

Google, "wayback machine". Copy and paste the address from the first page of the thread.

It will say, "Saved 3 times between December 20, 2021 and October 20, 2022." Double click on December 20, 2021 and it should take you right to the first page.

On 9/16/2023 at 6:43 AM, Bart Allen said:

Damn, those links are rather dead

Had to use Wayback Machine :3

Thought this was a Peabody and Sherman reference until I looked it up. Thank you!

It's nice to see those pics can still be viewed.

Looking at a book and zoomed in and thought the upper left corner was a little questionable.

Any thoughts?

On 2/11/2024 at 9:15 AM, Nick Furious said:

Even in the case of the most expensive book, I can't see how the owner would be better of financially by going through the courts rather than taking the compensation from CGC.  Lot's of expenses with no guarantees.  Might just end up losing twice.  

Maybe they would want some transparency into how a grading company certifying valuable collectibles can be manipulated in such an efficient manner, hoping the exposure would provide some incentive to prevent future manipulation. A short term monetary setback to protect the value of a large collection of CGC graded books might be worth it to some.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read, the trimming fiasco ended in a "Now don't you ever do this again."

If somebody had one of these mis-slabbed books, wouldn't they be better served keeping the book and filing a suit against the perps and CGC together?

I had an issue with a home purchase and had to threaten a suit against my realtor, the seller, and the seller's realtor. In the end, all three agreed to pay a portion instead of take it to court and sort out who was most to blame.

Couldn't BOTH be seen as liable for the situation? Scammers for scamming, CGC for missing the scam?

Would the book give the owner more leverage to get a solution than sending it to CGC, where they are then at the mercy of CGC's timeline?

On 2/8/2024 at 8:37 PM, comeaux said:

There was definitely an inside man and also an outside man who had special privileges at CGC above others. When he submits books for reholder, he doesn’t even send in the book in a broken/cracked case, he just sends in a book and a label and CGC does the deed for him. I can’t mention his name or I get another week vacation, it upsets the natives.   

On 2/8/2024 at 8:53 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Ya that was alarmingly stated and I'm glad it was, very relevant too, but I didnt think it was very recent. I had heard something like it a long time ago, but from older forum boardies, that I had assumed was early 2000's cgc business and not recent

 

On 2/9/2024 at 7:03 AM, comicwiz said:

Thank-you for sharing this, because I knew about this as well. 

Wait, what!?

So, since the early 2000's there have been people who have had special access to get to skip the process? To certify valuable collectables? And this is only the second time there has been a big, somebody's been slabbing comics that might not match the label scandal? (Trimming being the first one. I only read about it, didn't live through it.)

I am not shocked that there is a group of people with special access. I am surprised there isn't more vocal backlash against it, especially after reading the venom that flew around in some of those older threads.

I believe these are two separate incidents. One group got caught because they were greedy. Another got caught because they were sloppy and took short cuts. I would guess they saw another scam and thought they could do it better, faster, smarter.

*I do not know exactly how either group accomplished their frauds. I do know that one group was at it a lot longer than the other.

On 2/7/2024 at 9:16 PM, The Lions Den said:

Regardless of who looked at it previously, whenever you find one area of color touch it's often a good idea to look for additional color touch and other signs of restoration...  

I got it from an MCS auction so I was pretty sure it was there. I just need to shut my brain off when I'm trying to do something new.

I'm guessing the red ink was printed after the black. It reflected like other CT I have been able to find, pen fill-in, marker. That uneven line, the sheen of that red ink on black, I thought for sure that's where it was going to be. I was so certain I knew where it was that I didn't even bother to look elsewhere. Great lesson to learn though!

On 2/6/2024 at 9:41 PM, buttock said:

Is that black bleedthrough under the tape at the bottom edge? 

On 2/7/2024 at 1:19 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

There doesn't seem to be black on the opposite side, but there is a suspicious looking spot that seems to correlate. Maybe it's green?

That is 100% the CT spot.

I was driving myself nuts with the ink around "Punishment" and on the inside cover that I didn't even pay attention to those HIDDEN GREEN DOTS on the bottom of the inside cover.

On 2/5/2024 at 3:40 PM, rjpb said:

Hard to tell from these photos. A black light would probably help find c.t.

The marks under Punishment look more like scratches than c.t. In general blacks are the most likely area to be touched up by an amatueur, and the more often at the corners and spine than elsewhere.

I was trying to highlight where the red and black ink meet. When I first got the book, I thought it was just marker making a cleaner line. It seems to be the red ink on top of black ink instead. Looking at other copies, there is the same uneven blob of ink under the "P."

Looking around for a blacklight, I'd like to find out where this CT really is.

(long f-bay link to an Iron Man 2 Annual, with pin-up from CBS)

On 2/4/2024 at 2:40 AM, namisgr said:

Thanks for the focus on this part of the filing.

It says the perp admitted to stealing 23 comics.  It remains possible that the true number is actually larger.  And of the 23 admittedly stolen, the perp had seven of them encapsulated with labels sporting higher grades that were duplicated from other graded examples - the true number of swaps with bogus grades is, then, a minimum of seven.

 

I read it as CGC can prove beyond all doubt that he stole 23 comics, not that he only stole 23.

I bought this book with the following notes: Color touch, cover oxidation, tape on interior cover. I bought it partially to help me recognize color touch on a GA book but I'm not seeing it. At least I'm not 100% sure I'm seeing it. Yes, I know, I need a black light to improve detection but guess who thought CT on the black part of this cover would be easy?

Any thoughts? I have added pics of the areas I suspect may contain CT.  The ink spot over the "I" in "BIG" on the interior cover is about the "NI" in "Punishment" on the front. That ink spot is consistent with other dark ink on the interior of the cover but is the only ink spot that matches black on the front cover. The red is glossier than everything else, which is really throwing me off if that CT is around "Punishment." I'm happy to post other pics of the book if anyone thinks it will help.

On 2/3/2024 at 9:49 AM, ramithard said:

Like I said earlier.....this thread is like the show True Detective.....no one wants to tell us who the person is that did this....it just goes on....and on...and on,,,,

I understand why nobody is naming names. It may have been missed, but I don't think there is anything concrete to say "Person X did this." There are strong enough connections that others feel they know the culprit, but I don't think those feelings hold weight over facts in a court of law.

My concern is not that the people who are doing this are named immediately, but that they are known by enough people so nobody else gets ripped off.

Someone about 300 or so pages back said that they purchased one of the books on the list from the alleged scammer in person. They were also offered other books that ended up on the list. The alleged scammer was not alone.

I get that some people know the identity of the alleged scammer and that is great. Is this person known to comic dealers? Are the buddies known as well? What is preventing these bad actors from clearing out their remaining inventory before anyone gets a chance to name them publicly?

If this was already answered, sorry for the repeat question. Also, thanks to everyone who is shining light on this and sharing what they are able to find.