RockMyAmadeus

(thumbs u

I sent my #1 Yellow to be slabbed, and they...of course...hammered the offset pages. Only got a 9.0, when the cover itself is flawless. Considering CGC has seen all of about 10 of these total, they don't really have a good handle on grades...or, they do, and 9.0 is about as high as they will ever go. I have never, ever seen a #3 Yellow...which is odd, becaue they are ostensibly twice as common as #3.

I passed when he was trying to sell the raw for $325, and the 9.2 for the same amount. He's fooling himself. If there was no buyer at $325 for a 9.2, $20,000 is about $19,500 more than he could fairly get for this book. These aren't Silver Age Marvels, where a 9.2 is worth $200, but a 9.8 is worth $20,000, because there are 367 9.2s, and 1 9.8. Grade simply doesn't matter much for books like this, when you're dealing with "10" total. Don't get me wrong, I'd pay $200 for a red and a blue, on a book that's worth maybe 50 cents as a regular, but $325+ is just too much for a book that has interest to..what, the five of us? Maybe? I wonder how much he bought these for from Wizard....

1. Plain ol' money. 2. That would depend on who the suspects actually were........

Since the COAs are numbered and I have seen one in the 6000s, I'm going to assume the numbers are independent. So total =6,500+1,000+300+325+79 Yeah this is correct. It's how all DF signed/unsigned book work. (thumbs u

DD and Magneto don't have the sketch boxes on the "regular" covers either. SpiderWoman doesn't have an outlined box for either version. The box covers were just overruns that didn't get sketched. But are all the ASM covers with boxes, or were there some produced without them (regular covers). All the ASM covers I've seen (and a quick check of eBay supports) have the sketch box, whether sketched or not. Same with Gambit.

DD and Magneto don't have the sketch boxes on the "regular" covers either. SpiderWoman doesn't have an outlined box for either version. The box covers were just overruns that didn't get sketched.

I agree...most of the Authentix sell for too much money, but the Spideys are the worst. These aren't rare books, by any definition. But then, the DF Amazing Vol 2 #1 sells for silly money ($20-$50) too, so...who knows.

There was. It's noted in one of the OPGs from the late 80's/early 90's.

This is perfectly natural, too. The vast majority of the members of this board are Silver/Bronze age collectors, with another large chunk for Gold. I'd be really, really surprised if "Copper" collectors comprised more than 5% of the regular contributors of this board. This is evidenced by the many discussions focused on Gold/Silver/Bronze, and the lack of same here.

CGC ∞ > PGX I sent the seller an offer... I bet you would never guess for how much..... -slym Three fitty?

CGC ∞ > PGX

Do it. DO IT.

Anyone know? I don't think so, officially, but they were commonly used by the time CGC came around.

I'll pay the resub fees.....

The conversation...like all good conversations....veered off into a broader discussion. This sale became the springboard for that broader discussion, but once it veered off into that discussion, the specific sale ceased to be the point. Boston Corbett has already come along and given his rationale. You keep implying that I somehow think he shouldn't have spent his money this way, or he didn't have a right to, or he's harmed somebody. That's simply not true. As far as I'm concerned, he's aware of the negligible difference, and more power to him. But not everyone is, and there are still people telling buyers that this 9.9 is substantially different from this 9.8, and it's worth the big money. I don't want people to be burned because they don't know. I don't want people to be burned because someone has convinced them that there's a substantial difference between these grades. Conversations like this help prevent that. Paying the huge premiums for 9.9 and 10s is madness. But..so long as everyone KNOWS it's madness, by all means, bring it on! Yeah. Ok.

I think we are at the point of the discussion (actually have been for a while now) where really, what we are discussing is are CGC able to tell the difference between 9.8 and 9.9. Not every time, but the majority of the time. That is what this entire thread boils down to. I say yes. I say that grades are not just dart board guesses (or gifts that are thrown out like raw meat to feed the hungry dogs) and that the majority of books, if they were to be cracked and resubbed, would come back in the same grades. I agree with you 100%.... But are you with me when I say that the rationale for paying a huge premium one grade over another begins to crumble if even ONE book comes back a different grade on reslabbing...? That whoever paid $97,000 for the Spidey #5 in 9.8 could have owned the exact same book, in the exact same condition, for about $60,000 less, had they simply bought it when it was a 9.6....? That's the crux, right there.

Untrue. But the overall point that there is subjectivity in the grading is true. It's not wholly arbitrary, and I agree with Roy that most 9.6s will grade the same, just as most 9.8s will. But there are some that won't make it because they were on the borderline to begin with. I already discussed this when I talked about weak, average, and strong grades. I didn't say every 9.6 could be a 9.4. But a weak 9.6 could easily be a strong 9.4 on another day. Most 9.6s WILL grade the same...but if even one doesn't (and we know that it's not just one, but hundreds), then the idea of paying a huge premium for one grade over another begins to not make much sense.

No, not at all. It is not a "dartboard guess." And neither is it an exact science. You prove my point. So "the majority" comes back the same grade...and I don't dispute this at all...but if even ONE book doesn't come back the same grade...what is the point of paying the huge premium for the one that has a higher label number...? What are you paying for? A book that is in better condition than all the 9.8s? Or just a label that says 9.9 (or 9.8, or 9.6, or insert whatever "one of one", or two of two, or whatever book there is)....?

That is the essence of what I have said (hopefully not in vain) this entire thread.... I'll disagree with John. He's saying that 9.0-9.8 is pretty cut and dry and then all of a sudden 9.8-9.9 isn't. I'd argue and say that 9.8-9.9 is the easiest to grade (besides 10.0-9.9) because you are dealing with the least amount of variables possible. I said 8.5 to 9.8 is cut and dry. I could give you ten books that got 9.9's and I bet you would call most of them 9.8's after I cracked them out for you to re-grade. Especially if Vodka was involved. ...but you know me I would give most books that CGC gives a 9.8 a 9.6 grade. I'd be willing to test that theory at a panel at SD next year. Same book, three different grades...9.8. 9.9. 10. Then, with a couple of independent, trustworthy witnesses, de-slab all the books, and have everyone pick which ones they thought graded what at CGC.... Then, after that's done, reveal what was what. Then, after that's done....send the books back, under different accounts (so you can keep track of which book was which), and see if they all come back the same original grades. It would probably work best with onsite slabbing, over a weekend.

Oh please. I've already said it, over and over again, but I'll say it yet again: Grading is subjective when you're dealing with half and quarter grades. What could be a 9.8 on one day could easily be 9.9 on another day, and vice versa. What could be a 9.6 on one day could easily be a 9.4 on another day, and vice versa. Conclusion: paying huge premiums for a difference in label designation, when the difference in actual quality is negligible, and in some cases, non-existent, is not wise. So long as the buyer knows this and accepts this, more power to them..but if they're being told "oh, yeah, there's totally a difference between a 9.8 and a 9.9...see, the label says so right here!", then we have a problem.

Smarty pants. But yes, you could call weak 9.8s "9.7" And eventually....they will. Not weak books just weak GRADERS. Once again you will never see 9.7 or 9.5, unless your that stupid company called Wizard. When the 9.7s and 9.5s come out...ignore Wiztard, that has nothing to do with this....will you come back and say "ok, RMA was right"....? (And whether it's a weak book, or weak graders, the end result is still the same.) It doesn;t make sense to break down the grading scale anymore. It's not going to happen. The book is the same the end result is determined by the grader. Sure, it doesn't make sense to you. It doesn't make sense to a lot of people. But that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to the market...especially with the vast differences paid between the uber grades. MS61, MS62, MS64...those grades didn't make sense to a lot of people, either. Look, CGC didn't really HAVE to have a 9.9, did they? I mean, 9.8 and 10 would have worked fine, right....? So why do they have a 9.9? And wouldn't a 9.7 alleviate some of the problems with cracking and resubbing, hoping for 9.8s?

Smarty pants. But yes, you could call weak 9.8s "9.7" And eventually....they will. Not weak books just weak GRADERS. Once again you will never see 9.7 or 9.5, unless your that stupid company called Wizard. When the 9.7s and 9.5s come out...ignore Wiztard, that has nothing to do with this....will you come back and say "ok, RMA was right"....? (And whether it's a weak book, or weak graders, the end result is still the same.)

Smarty pants. But yes, you could call weak 9.8s "9.7" And eventually....they will.