RockMyAmadeus

Andddd...right on cue, here comes Watson, stirring the pot. It's almost Pavlovian, ain't it...? I think from the the thread the buyer has gotten the gist of what most people think. (thumbs u Ya think...?

Andddd...right on cue, here comes Watson, stirring the pot. It's almost Pavlovian, ain't it...?

Someone has to speak the awkward truth around here.... (thumbs u

You thought you *avoided* a bidding war....? Hey, man, welcome to the boards, and more power to you that you can buy what you like... ...but please.....suffer no illusions that you paid $12,000 for a difference that 99,999 out of 100,000 people wouldn't be able to point out, rendering it negligible. Do not misunderstand: this is not a begrudging of you spending your money the way you want. If it makes you happy, that is the only thing that matters. But also do not misunderstand that you paid the premium for what the label says...not for any actual difference between this book and any of a number of strong 9.8s. (thumbs u

If I may....JC isn't saying "well, let's see, this book has 482 9.8s, and zero 9.9s...it's time we gave it one, and THIS one looks like it will fit the bill." No. It's simply a brand protection. They simply don't give out 9.9s or 10s unless the books are well within those grades. The census numbers mean nothing (to them), it simply applies to every book they come across that is a potential in those grades. It's not like the difference between 9.4 and 9.6, where one day it could be one, and one day the other. If there's any question at all, they err to the side of 9.8, always. And I doubt it's even really a conscious thing. The census numbers bear this phenomenon out. There are a couple dozen books that have ZERO 9.9s or 10s, but which DO have hundreds of 9.8s. Statistically, this should not be possible. For every hundred 9.8s, there should probably be 2 9.9s and a 10 for every two hundred or so. But there's not. So are we (the collective us) saying that books with literally hundreds and hundreds of "9.8 quality" had not a single "slightly better" copy among them...? Yup.

And you actually saying this is the same thing? No one is disputing that a high-grade copy of NM 98 has some value and that Deadpool is popular character. What is so incredibly humorous is that someone is willing to pay such a huge premium for a totally arbitrary 1/10 of a CGC grade difference. It's interesting isn't it that we choose to use information in whatever way suits our purpose. Because another way to look at it is that, if in fact what you are saying is true, that it is "totally arbitary", then there would not be only 1 9.9 and 396 9.8s. If it was "totally arbitrary", then statistically there should be many 9.9s as well as many 9.8s. A single 9.9 versus 396 9.8s would lead one to conclude that there may be something about that book that is different from the 396 9.8s. That's not what "totally arbitrary" means in this case.... (thumbs u

before pressing, maybe, after pressing, no. just look at gi joe 21 as an example and that book is older. Your example confounds me as there are no 9.9 copies of GI Joe 21. A 9.9 GI Joe 21 would make this auction look like it was for a mid-grade Amethyst run. Gasp! How DARE you mock Amethyst, only the greate, yeah I got nothin. Showoff.

before pressing, maybe, after pressing, no. just look at gi joe 21 as an example and that book is older. Your example confounds me as there are no 9.9 copies of GI Joe 21. A 9.9 GI Joe 21 would make this auction look like it was for a mid-grade Amethyst run. Gasp! How DARE you mock Amethyst, only the greate, yeah I got nothin.

Slow down. This is absolute gold! Marking this thread down to check on Nov 13, 2019.....

Agreed. They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say). Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader? So long as humanity has the senses of "touch" and "smell", "digital stuff" is not going to replace the real thing permanently, no matter what it is. I dunno I read all my newspapers/text books online and never buy a newspaper at the store anymore. super hero comic books seem to be the last holdout, even manga is making progress online.It sure does make for good discussion. Not talking about newspapers, as noted previously ("printed fiction.") Yes I did say "no matter what it is", but I was referring to the big picture, not the various forms of print.

If you're going to insist on making statements that aren't true, you're going to be challenged. If you don't wish to be challenged, don't make untrue statements. *I* get challenged when I make TRUE statements. This is not a board for the faint of heart. Good luck!

It absolutely does. Where is this "growth" you're talking about? Print runs are averaging out to be the same as they were 10 years ago. With one exception, the rest of the market is flat, especially when comparing the weakened dollar. I can buy the same books...in the same mid to low grade conditions...for the same amount, dollar power wise, as I was doing in 1999. And in 1999, I was selling key modern independents for 5-10 times what I could get for them now. If all the "growth" is entirely in one niche market....ultra high grade books...that was essentially invented with CGC, then clearly the industry as a whole has not grown. Do you know how much the high grade market accounts for all of comics, unit wise? Oh, sure, they suck up the lion's share of the DOLLARS spent on back issues...but unit wise? Not even close. In case you were wondering, my original post to which you responded had to do with the entire industry, not just the niche of ultra high grade collecting. These are not collectors you're referring to. They're speculators! HUGE difference! Like I said, you need to separate readers from collectors. I...already...did...that. TWICE. Are you reading what I'm typing...? Not only are they NOT "irrelevant", they are, in fact, a good indicator of activity. How do you think people get into comics? Especially in the 21st century? Do you imagine they wander into a COMIC shop that may have back issues, and then just decide to pick one at random? Or do you think, like most people, they discover NEW comics, and THEN become interested in back issues? It is completely natural for there to be overlap between new issues and back issues...bcause today's new issue is NEXT MONTH'S back issue. It ain't rocket science. - Once again - No. They're not. At least, not in ANY significant numbers. The values of nearly everything in the back issue market, except the ultra high grade stuff, is flat or declining. And the values of the ultra high grade late Bronze, Copper, and Modern are ALSO declining. Sorry, but the numbers fail to support your claim. (thumbs u I don't give a rusty rat's about other fields, so that point can be laid to rest. It is not debated.

You're absolutely right, back then, a "what would end up to be" an 8.0 was the same thing as a "what would end up to be" 9.8, and sold for the same amount, unless it was being sold by a VERY savvy seller, and then it was much, much more expensive,. Of course, not even the super anal high grade collectors like me could conceive of what was to come. We just picked out "the very best we could find." The number of people who rejected "what would become 9.0 or lower" books in the 90's? What, maybe 100? And of those, how many could actually afford to hunt out these copies in Silver and earlier? 10? 15? 20? Certainly not me. High grade collectors, though, form a tiny, tiny niche segment of an already wildly shrunken market, so while that market has definitely been birthed and wildly grown by the advent of CGC, it's still just a tiny part of an already small market to begin with. Pre CGC and even before I started to take notice of CGC in its early years everything that was 9.2 or better I simply called near mint. I often have trouble picking out what a 9.4 (NM) would be now because to me thats what 9.6 and 9.8's used to be. I'm often surprised at the little defects that some 9.4 CGC's have. I am, too. I have a 9.2 Albedo #1 that has a 1 1/4 inch deep spine FOLD...not crease, not mark, not bend...a FOLD, with a peak, valley, the works. I wouldn't have graded that book above VF, MAYBE. Which tells me I gave away a lot of really cherry stuff in the late 90's/early 2000's that were undergraded... I miss the Showcase #27 the most. Oh well.

It absolutely does. Where is this "growth" you're talking about? Print runs are averaging out to be the same as they were 10 years ago. With one exception, the rest of the market is flat, especially when comparing the weakened dollar. I can buy the same books...in the same mid to low grade conditions...for the same amount, dollar power wise, as I was doing in 1999. And in 1999, I was selling key modern independents for 5-10 times what I could get for them now. If all the "growth" is entirely in one niche market....ultra high grade books...that was essentially invented with CGC, then clearly the industry as a whole has not grown. Do you know how much the high grade market accounts for all of comics, unit wise? Oh, sure, they suck up the lion's share of the DOLLARS spent on back issues...but unit wise? Not even close. In case you were wondering, my original post to which you responded had to do with the entire industry, not just the niche of ultra high grade collecting. These are not collectors you're referring to. They're speculators! HUGE difference!

Agreed. They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say). Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader? So long as humanity has the senses of "touch" and "smell", "digital stuff" is not going to replace the real thing permanently, no matter what it is.

You're partially right, but printed comics will change in a way that will make them effectively uncollectible and break the tie to the kind of comics we collect--trade paperbacks will replace the monthlies. Trade paperbacks don't seem to lend themselves to collectibility, but I can't put my finger on why I feel that way. I agree, but I think the demise of the monthly periodical, if it ever comes, will inspire people to collect them in greater numbers, provided the trade format keeps these characters in print and in the public eye. This will especially appeal to people who can now get a "complete collection" of everything, from Action Comics to Y, the Last Man. Even when WDC&S went to Prestige Format with #600, people still sought them out and collected them. And I know why trades have been so disdained...they're "reprints"...and the proscription against "collecting reprints" is deeeeeply ingrained in generations fo collectors.

You're absolutely right, back then, a "what would end up to be" an 8.0 was the same thing as a "what would end up to be" 9.8, and sold for the same amount, unless it was being sold by a VERY savvy seller, and then it was much, much more expensive,. Of course, not even the super anal high grade collectors like me could conceive of what was to come. We just picked out "the very best we could find." The number of people who rejected "what would become 9.0 or lower" books in the 90's? What, maybe 100? And of those, how many could actually afford to hunt out these copies in Silver and earlier? 10? 15? 20? Certainly not me. High grade collectors, though, form a tiny, tiny niche segment of an already wildly shrunken market, so while that market has definitely been birthed and wildly grown by the advent of CGC, it's still just a tiny part of an already small market to begin with.

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree. Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?" I'll argue against that vociferously. Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?" Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back. But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.) When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's. I think they will go back to 100k readers a month for Spider-man and Batman but the majority of those 100k readers will be reading thier adventures on the i-phone or upcoming I-tablet, once Spiderman/Batman comics become mainstream on the iphone, a new generation will make the keys even more expensive as they also will now seek the keys out.The high grade keys will continue to go up for silver/golden ages.I definately would not expect a crash for the real popular characters like Batman and Spider-man. I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time. People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree. Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?" I'll argue against that vociferously. Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?" Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back. But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.) When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's.

Thought I already did.... :shrug:

how bout black kiss that kid friendly? Not sure what Black Kiss is?. A great book by Howard Chaykin. Definitely not for kids.

Why wouldn't the superhero movies of the 2000s reconnect these people to comics? I got forced out of comics in the mid-90s myself, but the X-Men film in 2000 pulled me back into them. The easy availability of them due to the Internet intensified my interest, much as it has intensified the entire market. Again, you are an exception to the rule. At the same time as the huge success of the film franchises, the comic readership numbers have continued to decline. Yes, people think it's cool to see their old heroes up on the screen, or discover them for the first time, but it hasn't driven them back to the source material. No, maybe not as many new people as we would like, but certainly older people with bigger paychecks than they had in 1990. Look, folks...the market is significantly smaller now than it was in the early 90's. Movies aside, "record prices" aside...the fact is, there are far fewer buyers of comics, there are far fewer readers of comics, and there are vastly few sellers of comics. Yes, in the early 90's, there were a lot of speculators of comics who couldn't tell you the difference between Alec Holland and Alex Trebek, but there were also substantially more readers...especially younger readers (ages 5-13) and older readers (ages 30+) who were either just getting into comics, or had been reading them for a while before the glut. The younger readers were trampled on in the pursuit of money (if you didn't get the book the second it came out, hahahaha! SUCKAH!!!!) and the older readers, who had to fight for copies of books they didn't have to fight for just a few short years before, threw their hands up in disgust at the giant Franklin Mint that was the comics industry. It took a gut of steel to ride out the early 90's, and most people just gave up. Trust me, it is very much in my best interests to get hordes of new collectors into the hobby....but they simply don't exist. Print runs alone bear this out. The people who are paying "the big money" are generally people who have been in the hobby since, or before, the glut.

Been there, done that. Like I said, I had to learn all about them. These were discussed on the ebay message boards in 2000-2001. That's where I first learned of them. (thumbs u

I feel for you my friend. I've had this happen to me on several books which is just the nature of the beast. My hulk 181 9.6 sold at 2k and 2 years later went to 6k, my spotlight 5 9.6 sold at 2k and 2 years later sold at 5k just to name a few. Years ago, people were rippin' on me for paying what I did which at the time was insane! I mean at the time, we were talking about a 15.00 comic at best pulling in hundreds more than the publicly known price of 510.00 and I can't tell you how many people told me that there would be more 9.9s coming any day.. Hasn't happened since the 4 years this book was originally sold. Not saying it isn't gonna happen but it wouldn't matter all that much anyway. 2 9.9s for the entire comic population is hardly enough. Even though we all see this as a high price, it doesn't mean that this book won't have a following tomorrow, nor does it mean that others are not willing to pay the same price. I mean, the book got that high in a bidding war with at least 2 participants so someone else out there wants it too. I would guess that we haven't seen the last on this book fetching big money. The only thing that would have been nice is to see less people ripping on the buyer. Crazy books have sold for crazy prices in the past and most of those "crazy" books are now worth more than their crazy prices back then. I think that the wolverine 1 9.9 was a prime example and its also a modern book. personally, I think the first app of deadpool has more going for it than the first mini series by wolverine but that is just my opinion and some may disagree and that's completely understandable to me. I just wish the buyer good luck with my book. (thumbs u

It is beyond ridiculous to compare FF #1 to New Mutants #98. NOBODY bought 15 copies of FF #1 the week it was brand new, immediately bagged and boarded them, and then stuck them in a long box for 40+ years. More than one person did just that with New Mutants #98. Perspective, people. The two aren't remotely comparable.