agamoto

Agreed, there's zero evidence that connects these two people to this reholder incident. What it does demonstrate, quite loudly, is that CGC has weak internal controls in place guarding over their process and that bad actors can and do exist within the company ready and willing to take advantage of any weakness in that process. Mr. Nelson maybe was a little quick on the draw during his hobby hero interview when he quickly denied any possibility of someone helping the mark jeweler fooler from within. I'm sure you'll agree that we can't just dismiss the person of interest's claims of connections within the company simply because Mr. Nelson says it isn't so in light of this new incident. I wanted to add something about the grader they're accusing in their complaint. There's no mention of him on the "meet the graders" page, now or in any of the past snapshots I've looked at captured by the wayback machine. I wonder why that is.

Go through your emails, tell us when you bought it on eBay, and was it eBay US you bought it from or eBay in UK, sweden or somewhere else?

Do you have pics of your FF5 before you submitted? Would love to compare yours with the one they sold. Nice catch Sledge.

I can't even... Every single CGC customer should be demanding an independent law enforcement and/or FTC investigation at this point. These people weren't stealing from CGC, they were stealing books from customers. How is it a husband and wife grader and a card concierge have, according to the complaint, apparent free reign to every part of the storage/grading/records/encapsulation/labelling processes? Is there no damn compartmentalization there? God almighty. Heads need to roll. This is precisely the same sort of lawsuit they filed against Richard Albright who was scamming with NGC coin cases. This suit is designed to force these two to settle with CGC, hand over every slabbed book they've got, and lock them into an NDA/settlement agreement to prevent anyone from learning the details. The question brought up previously, now accentuated greatly by this new complaint, how can ANYONE at CGC say with a straight face the Mark Jeweler Fooler did not have any inside help when this suit demonstrates bad actors (plural!!) were working in the environment with the the access to make all those 9.8 fantasies come true? Nothing short of an FTC/FBI investigation is going to get to the bottom of any of this.

Did somebody say McMens Rea? Lol. "Trust in CGC a standard amongst Collectors." Ok, let me see if I've got this one straight... Grailz puts the original 9.2 comic, graded on 1/24/2023, up on their facebook/Instagram May 4th, 2023 for $1695. I don't do Insta, was it claimed by anyone? Whether or not, the book winds up selling on eBay on July 1st, 2023 for a fixed price of $1300, and it appears the ad is using the same pictures in the ad that Grailz used on insta back in May. I can't tell on worthpoint or terapeak who the seller or the buyer is, but the ad descrption for the 9.2 doesn't match the other ads we've seen throughout the history of the Mark's Jeweler Fooler's listings. Then, in just over a month, the book gets sent to CGC for relabel/reholder, winds up as a 9.8, and it's back for sale, right back at Grailz for $25K in early August. How about that. At the risk of Swagglehaus dismissing one of my posts as a Pepe Silvia rant, I'm going to say again that it's a real shame CGC's private eyes, Kroll, can't simply subpoena instagram and ebay to show who was trading and communicating over this book, and many others books, or how much money exchanged hands, if any. Just some of the interesting stuff law enforcement investigators would be able to do, like where and when the books were shipped around, who touched them at CGC, who owns the phone the pics were taken with and where they were taken when uploaded etc.

Well, if you ask 9.9Newstand, he'll tell you how the person who sold the dirty 252 MJ Variant told him of his connections with higher-ups at CGC regarding how they determined together there are 7 MJ copies of X-Men 266. But it's ok, Matt Nelson also told 9.9 that no one internally at CGC is connected to this scam, and they've got Kroll investigators hot on the case, so it's all good.

Oh, and by the way, I wanted to say @WestcoastDAVEngers last night on Swagglehaus' live stream mentioned in the chat the consignment group Grailz still has Zaneglor's books up for consignment. I'm assuming he's referring to books still on the list. Be careful out there, fellow consumers!

As the frequency of comments in this thread begins to wane and the community and CGC continue to process this incidence, I wanted to provide more concrete information below in order to clarify options available to the community in these circumstances. If you have incurred financial loss due to purchasing comics online that were subsequently swapped out with different books, this constitutes criminal fraudulent misrepresentation, and any online transaction involving these books or shipment of them across state lines is considered felony wire fraud. CGC has requested you report such incidents to them via email at ReportFraud@CollectiblesGroup.com. However, this should not be your only course of action. It is essential, whether you purchased the item in person with cash or over the internet, to report the details to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at https://reportfraud.ftc.gov. The FTC is tasked with protecting consumers and addressing issues of fraud and deception in the marketplace. Moreover, any fraudulent transaction that occurred online should also be reported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) at https://www.ic3.gov/. The IC3 is instrumental in gathering reports on internet-related criminal activities and forwarding them to the appropriate law enforcement agencies for further investigation. While CGC has expressed their intention to fairly compensate those who have suffered losses, the specifics of this compensation are still not clear. It is crucial for victims to understand that there are no individual legal remedies for recovering losses without first filing a report with the proper law enforcement authorities. CGC cannot and will not file this report for you, as they are not the direct victims of this fraud. Technically speaking, one could argue CGC was inadvertently involved in facilitating the fraud against consumers, but it's critical to remember they are also victims of fraudulent misrepresentation here. That, however, is a civil matter between the responsible parties and CGC. Had the fraud not been discovered by CGC's customers, CGC theoretically would have profited considerably from the scheme, given the amount of fees involved in grading and re-grading such a significant number of high-grade books in addition to their reholder fees. CGC can indeed take legal action against those they determine responsible for damaging their reputation, covering costs associated with reimbursing victims, private investigations, legal fees, and process mitigation. However, what they cannot do is 'press charges' or 'prosecute' anyone who may have defrauded individual customers with a swapped book. The consumers, not CGC, are the victims of this fraud. While CGC has pledged to hold those responsible accountable 'to the fullest extent of the law,' they might wish to provide clearer communication to customers and victims about which specific 'law' they are referring to. CGC should clarify whether their legal team intends to represent all victims, including CGC, in any potential future lawsuit they may file. Additionally, CGC should make it clear to customers and victims that third parties like PayPal, eBay, Instagram, etc., cannot file a fraud report on an individual’s behalf either. Furthermore, CGC should also inform concerned customers and victims that sending any suspect book to CGC before consulting with local/state/federal law enforcement, personal legal representation, or before filing any criminal complaints could potentially jeopardize any direct legal recourse for recovering losses from those indicted and convicted for this fraud in a criminal court. Others in this thread have expressed skepticism about the effectiveness of such reporting. However, it is important to understand that failing to report these incidents assuredly guarantees that no action will be taken. The collective reporting of these crimes greatly assists federal agencies in identifying and tackling such fraudulent schemes. These steps not only aid in your pursuit of justice but also contribute to the broader effort to combat online fraud and protect others from similar deceptive practices. As individuals who have suffered from these fraudulent activities, it is your right and responsibility to yourself, to other victims, and to potential victims, to report these incidents. That's my 2 cents.

I've watched that story, amazing technology. With the missing page/MVS problem, shining a light through the book, then measuring the output to fine degree on the opposite side, I think you'd be be able to cheaply and reliably detect a missing page or a cut coupon based on expected and measured values... Hell, you could probably also use it to mechanically detect tape, tear-seal restoration, added pieces, spine reinforement, inpainting. etc.

CGC can't "prosecute" anyone. They will certainly sue the fellow they think is responsible for injunctive relief and a restraining order preventing him from attempting to sell any books with CGC's good name on them for fear they've been tampered with. And CGC will only need to prove with a preponderance of evidence that this is what's been happening. That's the info their internal investigation is digging up right now. They may even successfully convince a judge in civil court to force the perp to hand over every single CGC slab they still have in their possession, although, by now, anyone with half a brain would have liquidated every CGC book they've got or transferred them to another arm's length entity. I think Sledgehammer might be able to let them know about recent corporations formed in a certain US state. What CGC cannot do is prosecute anyone. With federal crimes, only a US DA's office can do that and that decision is normally based upon the quality of the evidence gathered by federal/state/local investigators and usually not by a private investigator. While some evidence gathered through a private investigation can lead to a criminal probe by feds, and some evidence they've gathered can even be admissble provided it's handled right, I highly doubt any DA is going to choose to prosecute soley relying on evidence privately collected to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in federal criminal court. So, if you're someone who'd love to see this scammer behind bars, it's not happening unless there's a federal law enforcement agency investigating alongside Kroll, the PI's CGC hired. Just as Mr. Nelson has let us know they're working with Kroll, he could have also let us know if they are coordinating with any law enforcement agency investigation. One has to wonder why that is when it's so incredibly easy to do with absolutely zero downside or risk to any ongoing investigation. What he does NOT want to say is that they are cooperating with law enforcement, if they actually are not. Come on back to this message a year from now after CGC puts out a press release declaring victory against the Mark's Jeweler Fooler in their lawsuit for injunctive relief and a permanent restraining order, in seizing all the perps's CGC books and settling the case out of court for an undisclosed amount, all of it wrapped tightly around an ironclad NDA with zero criminal charges against anyone.

You did nothing wrong. You're correct, you're not a journalist. Which is why they agreed to talk to you when they should be talking to the media outlets who are covering this story. That said, there's nothing "gotcha" about trying to get to the truth of a matter. 99 did a great job near the end with his followup regarding how they'll handle qualified swapped 181's. Cable news level followup question there! Bingo! Kroll could be dotting every i and crossing every t, it doesn't matter. A decent defense attorney can have everything Kroll touches thrown out of court in a criminal trial, and I think you hit the nail right on the head about discovery. Pursuing any criminal charges means the accussed's defense gets to depose people, they get to see emails, records, dig into every dirty little corner of CGC's history. That ain't happening. Matt saying they intend to prosecute does not mean what people think it means... And hey Matt, if you're reading this, it's REALLY easy to clear all that up with a statement saying law enforcement agents are investigating and you do hope an indictment is made. You can totally say those things, unless your counsel is screaming at you not to of course, which I'm certain is the case. Think of it this way... If your watch is able to figure out how much oxygen is in your blood, and we have telescopes which use the light spectrum to detect the ratio of molecular compounds in the atmosphere of a planet light years away, then they have the technology to blast a light through a comic where an MVS would be, even if still inside a case, and tell you if a page or a coupon is clipped out based on the ever so slight difference in brightness on the other end. Cringe factor went past 11 on that one.

I'm sure nothing's being destroyed, and all the data on the matter is just being internatized and well documented... But I have to wonder why, since cracking open any potentially swapped book and reencapsulating for return, regardless if graders believe the grade is warranted or not, seems to fly in the face of 18 U.S.C. § 1519 or other statutes meant to preserve evidence. The slabs and inner wells could have someone's hair in them, skin flakes, the traces of a chemical found in the suspects shop, fingerprints, etc.

@CGC Mike Hi, pardon me, but could you please ask if you can add answers to these questions to the FAQ? 1. Since buying fraudulently misrepresented books from someone over the internet and shipped across state lines means a likely wire/mail fraud charge, does CGC's legal cousel recommend victims file a fraud report with the FBI and/or FTC? 2. If not, why is that? 3. While federal law enforcement generally does not comment on any investigation, they do not put any such restriction on others who are party to an investigation. Has CGC contacted federal investigators regarding this incident?

Funny thing, that, isn't it?

I did, but I got no response. Maybe I should try "Matt".

These were briva3/Zaneglor submissions? Speaking of grader's notes, I noticed when I was poring through the notes on all the books in the list, I was surprised how many of the notes had the exact same wording. For example, the 9.8 ASM 194's have the sole grader's note "very light spine stress lines to cover" 17 times. Further to that, there are 3 more 9.8's that also say "very light spine stress lines to cover" followed by "breaks color" 3 more times. Still 9.8's

Lol, what? This isn't just anybody saying anything... JFC! This is a statement made by the person who sold the 252 9.8 ASM and who is implicated in the sale of a million bucks worth of other suspect books talking about having someone he collaborates with high up on the inside of the company who you think is perfectly within bounds to self-investigate amidst what should be a massive interstate fraud investigation. Oh, I see. So as long as 98% are kept in the dark, then it's perfectly fine and we don't have to worry about any of it. Could you possibly come up with a lamer excuse for why this matter shouldn't be investigated by the feds? Ok, cool, you keep believing that. I'll just ignore your future comments.

Just incredible... Add it to the list of things that already smell south of old cheese.

While I remember 9.9 talking about chatting with Zaneglor about the 9.8 252 MJ variant, I don't recall him talking about having any discussion with Zaneglor months before about the 266 X-Men MJ Variant and the claims made by Zaneglor about associations with higher-ups at CGC. So, still news to me. It just underlines how I've felt about this from the beginning. When I first got involved in this, The 9.8 252 MJ, a 266 X-Men and a few Hulk 181 switcheroos had been identified. I then found hundreds of more listings going back to 2016 and when I counted the dozens upon dozens of Spider-Man 300 9.8's in play, I mentioned it here in the forums and I knew, right there and then, that the scope of this was massive and something law enforcement needed to get involved in.

What part of Zaneglor telling 9.9 Newsstand he has collaborated with higher ups at CGC did you not get? Did you miss the part where the guy who sold the swapped 9.8 252 MJ variant told the guy who cracked this all open months prior that he has connections with higher ups at CGC, who have collaborated with him on determining book populations? That's on TOP of everything else we know, the history of scams and scandals at CGC where people walked free w/o charges and what happened last year at NGC under similar circumstances. Now, two honest questions for you. Do you think the public, who has spent hundreds of millions, possibly billions of dollars for the CCG mark of confidence, the mark of assurity on their cherished comics, coins, posters, cards, etc. deserve to know that a fully impartial criminal investigation is underway to ensure those responsible for scamming others are brought to justice, especially if there is even a hint of a possible co-conspirator working for the company? Do you think the company stating they are having private investigators look over things and have hired outside legal counsel to represent them in the matter is good enough?

So, 350 pages in and I just learned something new about this incident that has really disturbed me that I never heard before. The person who originally blew the lid off this story, 9.9 Newstand, recently chatted with the gang at The Code-X Comic Station youtube channel yesterday. In the conversation, 9.9 talks about a 266 X-Men MJ variant which Zaneglor had up for consignment via Grailz. He talks about having a discussion in DM's with the consignor, Zaneglor via Insta at the time. This is a DM discussion Zaneglor and 9.9 had months before the sale of the infamous swapped 9.8 252 MJ variant. In the ad for the 9.8 X-Men 266 MJ, Zaneglor commented that only 7 copies of such a highgrade X-Men 266 existed and 9.9 had asked him how he knows this as they aren't broken out on the census, nor on sites like GPA or GoCollect. According to 9.9, Zaneglor responded by saying he has been "a professional collector for 30 years who had called in favors at CGC and we decided, me and the higher-ups, that there are 7 of these books". (412 seconds in if the link doesn't work right) Zaneglor may have been totally lying when he talked about collaborating with CGC "higher-ups" on the 266. However, the mere suggestion anyone working for CGC had collaborated with Zaneglor in ANY manner should be automatic grounds to disqualify the impartiality of any internal investigation. For the umpteenth time, law enforcement needs to get involved in this investigation, yesterday. At the very least, we deserve to hear from CGC as to whether LEO's have even been approached on this matter.

You're the one implying all of us telling CGC to fix their case are defamatory, which itself could be taken as defamatory. So, maybe you should lighten up, Francis.

Gotta love that filter.

No, you still don't seem to understand it. It's not defamation for someone to say, just as an example, that you're an insufficiently_thoughtful_person, if it can be demonstrated to any reasonable person that you are, in fact, an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. Does that make sense? Again, just as an example. I don't think you're an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. You're not an insufficiently_thoughtful_person, right?

I don't know where you got your knowledge of how the law works. Was it from a comic book?