kc120us

Yes, Tom. They do.

But why? It's the buyer to determine if the resto done is one which he/she is comfortable with. Resto is resto...it's up to the buyer to determine whether it's amenable to them. To confuse the issue with different labels isn't doing the greater collecting community any favors... Jim "Resto is resto." Maybe. But resto is not necessarily conservation. I think there's a difference between the two, and think that making that differentiation on the label makes some sense But you can't make it a Blue "unrestored" label. It would have to be a different color... And you could argue that making different categories of restoration based on intent is murkying ( is that even a word?) the action... Jim Jim, I think the perception that it is "murkying" the distinction is simply because after 10 years we've been programmed to expect a purple label on a restored book. Again, the back lash to accepting restored books seems to have happened due to several factors, one being the distinction in label colors, the other being the fact that many people didn't realize they had restored books in their possessions...and the purple CGC labels making them aware of that after submission. If CGC had used a blue label from the beginning with plenty of info on the label I don't know if we would have seen this phenomena to the same extent. I'm pretty sure that if they had used a blue label from the beginning for all books people would have quickly learned how to read the labels and understand them. It's just a learned response that purple means "bad" and collectors in the same way could have learned to recognize restored books with identification on a blue label holder. It's almost Pavlovian. People (as buyers I'm talking about now) see a purple label and many immediately think "Oh, too bad...that book could be worth so much more" or "what a shame, somebody ruined that book". I know I did until I got over that hurdle. I think that if restored books were not segregated the way they were when different colored labels came out, people would have realized that the majority of books that were properly restored are still fantastic books. At this point I think the majority still doesn't fully appreciate how much original material makes up a restored book. It's a freaking bargain compared to most unrestored copies. It's been 10 years now and the average collector is maturing. We're getting to the point where Joe Collector understands a little more about restorative (or conservative) work, but more importantly, many comics are become tougher to find and more expensive with each passing day. Comics are transcending a hobby and are slowly become artifacts. The fact that they are so much more expensive creates an automatic need to be able to distinguish percentage of work performed on a comic. The same way a book can and does differ between 8.0/8.5/9.0/9.2, so a restored book can also differ in amount of resto work performed. Comics are fetching dollar amounts where that small difference in grade is necessary as if the differences weren't there the dollar swings between G/F/NM the way it used to be would equal 5 or 6 figures for some books. In the same way, work done on restored books should be documented better for the same reason. So that people can make better informed decisions. To me it should all be about giving the customer more info to make a better informed decision. (thumbs u

This is pretty much my own feeling... The only thing I would add is that the extensiveness of the restoration should play a part in determining final value, i.e. Professional, slight = 90/100% of Universal Professional, moderate = 60/90% of Universal Professional, extensive = 40/60% of Universal Amateur, slight = 40/80% of Universal Amateur, moderate = 30/40% of Universal Amateur, extensive = 10/30% of Universal And then there are types of restoration to factor in, like, tear seals (+5%), colour touch(-10%), deacidification (+10%), pieces added (-20%), etc. The above numbers are straight out of my arse, so are subject to change, derision, and revision at any time... but, they are my precise feelings on the subject of valuation of restoration. Here's an example... Marvel Mystery Comics #9 CGC 9.2 Restored, Professional, Moderate Overstreet Guide Value is 58,000 Moderate restoration....... 52,200 Restoration includes tear seals (3).................. 60,900 colour touch................... 54,810 pieces added (2)............. 43,938 staples replaced............. 41,741 deacidification................ 45,916 as the final value OK... there's a basic flaw in that math... my apologies! I had done it taking the percentage from the price above, which would give a different total depending on the order the restoration was listed in Here it is again, with the precentages being constant from the Moderate (P) mark... Overstreet Guide Value is 58,000 Moderate restoration....... 52,200 Restoration includes tear seals (3).................. 60,030 colour touch................... 54,810 pieces added (2)............. 33,930 staples replaced............. 31,320 deacidification................ 36,540 as the final value Back in 2004, I posted the following (portions of which are no longer relevant but since the topic is coming around again): When I use my restoration grading system, the end result generates a percentage of alteration (and thus, a percentage of originality) and value is based on that percentage (call it a multiplier). If anyone is curious, the link is here: www.restorationeducation.com/restoration_grading_system.htm It is my hope that restored books can be viewed in their proper context and that conservation will be sought out and restoration understood and accepted. Tracey Heft www.eclipsepaper.com www.restorationeducation.com www.solsticecomics.com Very interesting , Tracey. Thanks for posting it.

I totally agree, Sal. Perhaps another hybrid label ala the SS restored label. I was thinking something along the lines of blue with a red stripe along the top with the title Conserved along the top and the work noted. I made blue the majority color since we should try to convey that the work done helps the book and is necessary for the long-term health of the book.

I have some very old, really rare books, whose original owners actual thought they were toys...imagine that? So...they color touched, put a drop of glue on the book...it was not done to increase the value, just to "restore" the beauty of the book for the owner. I actually think that stuff is charming and part of the history of the book. Some of the books I have had the covers taken off for some microfilm type project in the 50's...whatever was used before photocopies were available...the owner then put the covers back on, he used tape, sometimes some glue, on a few I think he restapled them. He died before any were sold, and his wife has sold some. On a few pieces of the cover were missing, he added a few pieces, he was a pretty good artist and I doubt he ever thought these would be sold for more than the cover price;). . On newer books, where someone wanted to hide a defect so they could sell it, and it's done by an amateur, I would agree, but not all amateur restoration was done to make the book more saleable. I color touched many a book when I was a kid...just happened to have a new box of markers handy, so I'd improve my beloved comics... Very true, Shar. I would bet most of the original owners of the great GA and SA pedigrees weren't saving them because they thought the books would be worth a fortune someday.

This is a very good point. Often we take a short sighted view to restored books, mainly because a lot of the books that we want can be easily obtained in unrestored shape. Books that have been restored/conserved (deacidified, rehumidified etc) may end up outlasting their unrestored counterparts. This is definitely the case with some comic books that are old and rare just as it is the case with old documents and literature. R. Creating our very own "What If?" scenario, I wonder what would have been the case with restored books/values if from the very start CGC gave a PLOD only to those books that were not professionally restored, or had trimming? I.e. professional restored books still received a blue label with the details of the restoration/conservation undertaken. I've been arguing this for a very long time. I'd love for restored books to be in a blue label holder with resto clearly outlined as it is now and maybe one grade as being the apparent grade (left side) and another grade representing degree of restoration (right side). +1

In the current climate I think the answer to this question is Yes. Jul 2008 AF#15 9.6 (PLOD slight pro) $50k Oct 2008 AF#15 8.5 (Blue) $119k Now that makes me shake my head a little. Since it was SP restoration, the difference between that book and an unrestored version could be one tear seal or a few dots of CT on an otherwise untouched book. An unrestored 9.6 AF #15 is worth what? $500k? So the same book with a few dots of CT is worth 10% of that. I wonder if/when people come to their senses will the owners of these books be sitting on potential gold mines*. *Yes, I know the crash is coming and all of this is moot but bear with me. I think the reason the 9.6 PLOD sold for $50K is because someone valued it at what an 8.0 copy (or so) would have sold for at the time. What I'm seeing is that savvy bidders will pay determine market price for a restored book by theoretically "unrestoring" the book to try and determine what the book would have graded before resto and then bid according they believe the previously unrestored grade was. That is why the more the resto, the lower the price...because the book would have graded lower to start with before the resto was done. I don't think this will ever change again. What you will see is restored books start to climb as the consumer becomes more educated about resto but I don't think you'll see restored books ever catch up to unrestored books the way they used to be. R. If it was an 8.0, then that makes more sense. Sounds like the resto was maybe pushing the boundary between slight and moderate.

(thumbs u

This is pretty much my own feeling... The only thing I would add is that the extensiveness of the restoration should play a part in determining final value, i.e. Professional, slight = 90/100% of Universal Professional, moderate = 60/90% of Universal Professional, extensive = 40/60% of Universal Amateur, slight = 40/80% of Universal Amateur, moderate = 30/40% of Universal Amateur, extensive = 10/30% of Universal And then there are types of restoration to factor in, like, tear seals (+5%), colour touch(-10%), deacidification (+10%), pieces added (-20%), etc. The above numbers are straight out of my arse, so are subject to change, derision, and revision at any time... but, they are my precise feelings on the subject of valuation of restoration. Here's an example... Marvel Mystery Comics #9 CGC 9.2 Restored, Professional, Moderate Overstreet Guide Value is 58,000 Moderate restoration....... 52,200 Restoration includes tear seals (3).................. 60,900 colour touch................... 54,810 pieces added (2)............. 43,938 staples replaced............. 41,741 deacidification................ 45,916 as the final value Great post, Cimm. (thumbs u

In the current climate I think the answer to this question is Yes. Jul 2008 AF#15 9.6 (PLOD slight pro) $50k Oct 2008 AF#15 8.5 (Blue) $119k Now that makes me shake my head a little. Since it was SP restoration, the difference between that book and an unrestored version could be one tear seal or a few dots of CT on an otherwise untouched book. An unrestored 9.6 AF #15 is worth what? $500k? So the same book with a few dots of CT is worth 10% of that. I wonder if/when people come to their senses will the owners of these books be sitting on potential gold mines*. *Yes, I know the crash is coming and all of this is moot but bear with me.

Great responses so far. I should have stated professional restoration since I think amateur work should be prevented. So i am gathering that the conservation techniques are more accepted than the cosmetic. So if someone takes an AF #15 6.0 and professionally restores it to a 9.4, should it now be worth less than it was as an unrestored 6.0? Why?

In another thread, I had asked how should we view restored or conserved comics? Distain or Acceptance? I had posted that I thought the hobby's ( everyone involved with collecting) view on restoration needed to be addressed. I remember in the 80's restoration being promoted as a way to "make your comics just like new" and increase the value of those books. When the 90's came around, the pendulum had swung in the opposite direction and this view had completely reversed and restored comics were now to be shunned. But is that trully how they should be viewed? I think many of the GA collectors here might disagree. My question went unanswered. So I ask again, How should restored/conserved comics be viewed? Distain or acceptance? And why? And the following question would be, how would you value them? What value should such books receive? We've seen so many threads about pressing and restoration and CGC's take on all of it. Yet, I don't think we've discussed why it is so reviled and if that is even proper given that all of our books are aging and many will indeed need these conservation/restoration techniques to maintain their integrity and appeal as the decades pass. I ask this not to start another anger filled flame war but to foster discussion. I will start off. I believe restoration/conservation needs to be better accepted and should not receive the stigma it is currently bestowed. IMO, a restored book should be given the equivalent value of the book's previous grade prior to the restoration. If no grade change has occured, then the restoration could be seen as a "defect" value-wise. What do you think?

here are some more.....

This is as well....

Picked this up....

Nice additions, Leon.

Very nice!!

Very nice!!! (thumbs u

Great books, Jim!

Very nice book, Rich!! The White Mountains are very nice books!! Congrats!!

Here are a few more....

Thanks! That is the best one of I have right now. I won it for about $40 on ebay. It came from the Golden State collection.

Great story and great books. Glad to see you've come back. (thumbs u

A few more...