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kustomizer
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Posts posted by kustomizer
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Would have great if there'd been an interview with Stan, Jack and Steve in the same room at some point.
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2 hours ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:
But I think it was done before the Ditko version and was intended for Amazing Fantasy #15 before Kirby was either taken off the project or opted off doing it.
It was probably supposed to have been part of Spidey's origin story. Stan Lee most likely just wanted to print the seemingly pointless Kirby version in FF Annual #1 as he would have already paid Kirby for the work.
Interestingly, Kirby had also drawn the cover of Amazing Spider-Man #1, although Ditko drew them all (except #10) after that.
As mentioned in the italicized portion, maybe Stan just didn't want to pay to have the cover of Amazing Spider-Man #1 redone. If you have ever looked at Ditko's version of the cover of Amazing Fantasy #15, Kirby's version vs. Ditko's version are very different. Also, another story I have heard is that Stan rejected Ditko's cover because he didn't like to see the undersides of Spider-Man's feet.
I am not citing either of my accounts as "the Gospel truth". I am just relying on what I have read/heard.
Yes, Kirby's cover for AF#15 is far more heroic and dynamic than Ditko's much funkier version (which is still pretty awesome). But I wonder why Stan went with the more heroic version if that's the image he was trying to avoid?
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30 minutes ago, F For Fake said:
I know DC changed to the less glossy paper a couple of years ago. I stopped buying new comics a while back, but the last two titles I was getting, Catwoman and Batman, were using the matte paper. Unless things have changed, I'm assuming they're still using it. It's thicker than newsprint, like Baxter, only without the gloss. Colors looked much better.
As for their collections, paper quality and binding seem to vary wildly, depending on where the book was published. Quality control hasn't been their strong suit. They never used that Fourth World paper again as far as I can recall. The Absolute Batman Year One has the story collected in two HC', one with slick paper and coloring, and the other on a matte newsprint paper with original colors. If you have any interest in Absolutes at all, it's really lovely.
Those Fourth World Omnibi actually ring a bell, I vaguely recall seeing one at a shop and being impressed by the print and colours, but also heard they had binding problems so gave them a miss.
I bought some Turok hardcovers years ago, but got rid of them when I saw how badly the lurid colour and glossy paper worked against the art.
I've never seen or heard anyone saying they like the absurdly bright print/production on Golden or Silver Age reprints, so I wonder why the companies persist in doing it.
Thanks for the tip on Absolute Batman Year One, hope to check that out.
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4 hours ago, F For Fake said:
DC has switched to a high quality newsprint for some of their monthlies and trades. I wish they'd use it for everything, it's terrific. Takes the ink nicely without being murky, and doesn't add that weird glossy sheen you mention to vintage stuff. My favorite of all time was the paper used in the Fourth World Omnibus hardcovers, the thinner four volume set. It was lightweight but sturdy, and looked gorgeous. A lot of folks complained at the time that it felt cheap, but I thought it was perfect. I'd love to see more of that.
Thanks, I'd like to check that out. Which monthlies are they doing?
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2 hours ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:
The story that I read about most often is that Stan Lee thought Jack Kirby's version of Spider-Man looked "too heroic". So the book was given to Steve Ditko. Is the gospel truth? We'll never really know now.
Stan's story about Kirby's Spidey looking too heroic falls apart when you look at the covers he decided to use for both AF#15 and ASM#1.
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I'm not a fan of how Golden Age comics look with bright modern computer colouring on glossy pages. Would so much rather have them reprinted on decent newsprint in the more subdued orignal process colours.
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I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Kirby as Spider-Man's creator, or at least a major instigator. Yes, Jack repeatedly stated he created Spider-Man's costume. After all, he drew the first image of Spider-Man ever seen by the public -- the cover of Amazing Fantasy #15. And Stan Lee always maintained that Kirby drew the first Spider-man story, which was supposedly rejected but (it can be argued) saw print in FF Annual #1 in 1963. And then there's the Simon-Kirby Fly character, created in 1959. This bug-based character could walk on walls and had a special sense that warned him of danger. I'll let that hang there. But I'll add that the Fly's arch-nemesis was fellow called Spider Spry who walked on a webline and trapped the Fly in web-like netting.
Sure, these are obvious powers and abilities for insect and arachnid based characters. But it's significant when their creator is denied his part in the creation of Spider-Man just a few years later.
Additionally, it's speculated that Kirby actually created the Ben Cooper Halloween costume design -- which looks remarkably like Marvel's Spidey some 8 years in advance, back in 1954. Kirby did work for Cooper, so it's almost a slam dunk. Jack also had his own fly and spider-based superheroes and villains in the early-mid 1950s too. Unfortunately nobody ever knew to ask Kirby about the Cooper costume before he passed away in 1994. It could well be that kids wearing that Cooper Spider Man costume knocked on any one of the doors of Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, Jack Kirby and/or Martin Goodman in the 8 years' worth of Halloweens leading up to the first appearance of Spider-Man in comics.
For background on the Ben Cooper Spiderman costume:
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1 minute ago, Funnybooks said:
Not enough sunsceen?
Gamma rays will do that to ya.
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13 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:
I was thinking more a 13.27% fade 🤔, but 10 works 😁.
Maybe we do need an official Fade-Grade.
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46 minutes ago, KCOComics said:
You are likely correct. And even if your wrong, you should be correct. Fading like that should hurt the grade big time.
I read at one time that below 4.5 fading won't impact the grade. It was likely a comment on these boards and not a vetted source.
That said, I bought a pretty faded Hulk 1 earlier this year. It came back as a 4.0 (R) and I'm sure it would have been a 4.0 even if the color jumped off the page.
Here is my hulk for reference.
That's only about a 10% fade on that Hulk #1, and as he was gray anyway, no colour loss on the main character.
- LDarkseid1 and KCOComics
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Just putting this out there...
Regarding the origin of Spidey, Kirby did both the cover and at least some of the story for Amazing Fantasy #15.
But as it became apparent that Kirby was already way over-stretched on FF, Thor etc, Stan Lee gave Spidey to Ditko to take it over and in the process re-do that first story.
Oddly, there's a story in FF Annual #1 (1963) in which the FF meet Spidey for the first time, drawn by Kirby. This is supposedly an expanded (6-page) version of the same sequence that had already appeared in Amazing Spider-Man #1 as drawn by Ditko.
Stan Lee explains to the readers on the first page of the Kirby version that this 're-done' story was the result of 'countless requests' to expand on the original 2-page Ditko version. Problem is, the Ditko version was just over 4 pages long, not 'merely 2'.
Many of the panels in both versions are nearly identical, so one artist was clearly copying the other. The Kirby version has a few additional action panels that don't add anything to the tale. So, the Kirby version is clearly redundant.
But I think it was done before the Ditko version and was intended for Amazing Fantasy #15 before Kirby was either taken off the project or opted off doing it.
It was probably supposed to have been part of Spidey's origin story. Stan Lee most likely just wanted to print the seemingly pointless Kirby version in FF Annual #1 as he would have already paid Kirby for the work.
Interestingly, Kirby had also drawn the cover of Amazing Spider-Man #1, although Ditko drew them all (except #10) after that.
All of this lends credence to the strong possibility that Kirby did in fact create at least the visual for Spider-Man, as he always maintained he did.
Oh, and there's also an 18-page Spidey-Torch team-up by Kirby in Strange Tales Annual #2, also from 1963.
Yes, Jack WAS busy indeed, and there was way more to come or already on the boil (Iron Man, Avengers, X-Men, Sgt Fury, etc).
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I'd buy it just for the pleasure of cutting out that Marvel Value stamp, and not feeling guilty about it.
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The seller all_things_comics has caseloads of Hulk #181 and has several 'near perfect' (albeit clumsily trimmed and needlessly colour-touched) copies on eBay at all times.
Here's the last 30 copies he's sold recently:
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49 minutes ago, bronze_rules said:
Beautiful setup!
1 hour ago, wormboy said:I started a little you tube channel and did a video tour of my hardcover collection if you’re interested.
Those wide horizontal sections for your giant art books are great. I need something similar for my IDW artist editions and those oversize Marvel hardcovers. I've got most of them stacked on the floor for now.
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On 9/16/2020 at 4:50 AM, MR SigS said:
I just wasn't as impressed with this one- When I look through the Thor Edition, I find myself shaking my head (in disbelief) with almost every turn of the page, but with the Spawn Edition, it just seemed messy to me.
A shame, this is something I would have purchased.
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Eeew, I'm not geting ANY CGCing done if this is the potential result.
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6 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:
It is interesting, sorry I didn't mean to sound crabby. They're still at it 30 years later! The full current AVP number list is in my journal by the way - any and all contributions about them are welcome here Kustomizer
No worries, that's nice of you to say. I'm an Aussie so I lived through this at the time. I think the AVPs are great, much better than when some Australian company started printing their own versions of the latest FF and Spidey comics around 1978.
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11 hours ago, aardvark88 said:
I don't think Stan Lee 'conceived' the FF, Silver Surfer, Galactus or Spider-man. Page from Scioli's 'Jack Kirby' illustrated biography. Recommended reading and was part of Free Comic Book Day (FCBD) summer, 2020:
Stan at least (originally) admitted in his Origins of Marvel Comics that Jack was solely resonsible for the Silver Surfer, as he (Stan) was surprised by the character when the pencils of FF#48 came back.
However, Stan later disowned his Origins of Marvel Comics anecdotes, saying he had exaggerated when he credited Kirby. From his 2010 Kirby lawsuit depositions:
'So I tried to write these—knowing Jack would read them, I tried to write them to make it look as if he and I were just doing everything together, to make him feel good. And we were doing it together. But with something like Galactus, it was me who said, “I want to do a demigod. I want to call him Galactus.” Jack said it was a great idea, and he drew a wonderful one and he did a great job on it. But in writing the book, I wanted to make it look as if we did it together. So I said we were both thinking about it, and we came up with Galactus.' And also 'I created Spider-Man, the Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Daredevil, the X-Men, Nick Fury, the Avengers, Ant-Man/Giant Man, and the Rawhide Kid.'
I was deeply disappointed that Stan would do and say that.
- Larryw7 and aardvark88
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On 9/18/2020 at 1:57 AM, Get Marwood & I said:
I'm not interested in pricing myself Kustomizer, just what exists and the related production nuances. It doesn't surprise me though, your story there. I wish people would allow these and other such comics to find their natural price levels based on supply and demand rather than try to artificially create value via obscene BIN pricing. But that's not the way of the world, alas.
I mentioned this because I thought it was interesting background to the topic at hand and hoped someone else might recall the same advertising. It might lead to some numbers on how many AVPs were printed. I didn't say anything about pricing other than someone was unsuccessfully trying to gouge buyers 30 years ago,
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14 hours ago, bluechip said:
I doubt very much I will never have the same time, energy and desire to refute your assertions as you apparently have for making them. But your premise was that Stan used a "ghost writer" and didn't write anything at all. This quote has been brought out many times by people who want to assert Stan was trying to deceive people about the extent of his work, failing (each and every time I've seen it used) to point out that this quote was not something Stan was "caught" saying in secret, but something he said openly, on the record, and often.
He wrote and/or edited literally thousands of comic scripts. Of course he did not write every plot and every word himself, and of course, other people contributed.
But why am I taking time to point out the obvious? You have not just a theory, I suspect, but an agenda which will preclude any refutation as well as embrace any contradiction, in the service of that agenda. Plus, apparently, a lot of time and determination you are willing to put into it.
There's really no need to insult me personally and attack my character just because you don't agree with something I've said. And I'm not pushing some sinister anti-Stan agenda and and I'm not out to get anyone. Just trying to have a conversation about Silver Age Marvel. Congratulations on becoming my first Ignored User.
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I remember seeing ads in CBG back in the day where some guy was selling Aussie price variants for insane money, even as they were just coming out. He seemed to have cornered the market and was offering them as individual issues or by the caseload as if they were the hottest things on Earth.
He was touting the "fact" that the APVs were first printings (which they may well have been) but I'm pretty sure nobody cared and his cunning business venture most likely tanked very quickly.
Anyone else remember this??
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12 hours ago, NoMan said:
yeah, do more research on Newton Rings. I know what that are and what causes them. It's a visual blight and nothing else.
Comics are a visual product, therefore a visual blight really is a problem. Unless you're only buying them as shares.
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2 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:
Yes.
Why? They're not a condition issue.
Did Stan Lee use a ghost writer??
in Silver Age Comic Books
Posted
Anyone else ever notice how much the guy at the bottom left of the Ditko cover looks like Martin Goodman? Goodman supposedly told Stan a book about a spider man would never sell.