drmanhattanite

54 minutes ago, Funnybooks said:

As a tangent, if it’s ok with the OP, I wonder if there is also an age related component to our votes?

For instance as a cutoff...would the FF be represented by the over 50 crowd and by default, Xmen represented by the under 50 crowd if we are postulating that the Xmen are more relevant to “today’s momentum”?

 

I think that's an easy stereotype. I'm under 30 and like the FF more than X-Men, for what it's worth. People just assume X-Men are the favorite characters of any young person, just due to diversity, etc. 

2 hours ago, KirbyJack said:

I once wrote a letter ranting that the buyer of the White Mountain Fantastic Four 1 overpaid. 
 

Back in the 1990s.

It got published.

Wonder what the mythical FF1 9.6 would sell for..I'd say milli's

4 hours ago, marmat said:

Still going strong

9.4 $138000

8.5 $54000

Insane growth. On track to surpass X-Men 1 at this rate

1 hour ago, HighVoltage said:

You two are killing me.

Ok. Here... we... go...

The choice in this instance is FF #1, but barely.

And the reason it's close is primarily because of the pedigree of the X-Men #1.
I like the Green River ped a lot.
If it were a non-ped copy, the FF choice is easier to make. The big plus for me is Stan's old-school signature.
I happen to like older creator signatures quite a bit. I know Stan signed everything. But this is sweet.
His older signatures were usually placed with a little more care.
I had an FF #1 that I had Stan sign right in the mouth of the creature - I loved that book!

If this were a non-Stan signature copy vs Green River X-Men #1? I'm taking the X-Men #1.

Now the-above choice is based purely on just wanting to have a copy.

If were making the choice based upon dollars/speculation...? Really tough choice.
I'd probably lean X-Men.

In one year's time, I think the FF and X-Men #1s continue to move up. X-Men closing the gap in respective grades. But FF remaining on top.

In five year's time. Depends upon which franchise hits the MCU first. But if they both hit in the same year (like an early summer release/late summer release line-up),
I would have to say the X-Men close the gap further and probably break even with the FF in grades up to say - 6.5? The FF are just so tough to find in universal grade from 7.0 on up.
I think the FF would hang on in those higher grades, despite X-Men's overall popularity and people's curiosity to see what happens with the X-Men in the MCU.

The FF have a bit of a double-edged sword being introduced into the MCU... they have a clean slate, but not as successful of a prior franchise. The X-Men will have a lot of people wanting to watch what happens in the MCU *and* they have a pretty good cinematic track record.

10 years out: If both franchises successfully integrate into the MCU, I think those higher grade FF #1s move a decent chunk out ahead of X-Men #1s. But I could see the X-Men moving ahead of the FF in grades maybe up to 7.0. If the FF bombs - well - the X-Men will jump past it. I've mentioned it before, but I think GS X-Men #1 does blunt the high point growth of X-Men #1. The FF have a singular #1 starting point. X-Men have #1 and GS #1. If the Angel and Ice Man were introduced and had huge popularity, then that would help X-Men #1 a lot. But I think Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler, and (3rd) Wolverine have more loaded up to make a run.

 

The FF are confirmed, in development. That means guaranteed late-2022 or early, mid-2023 for the movie. X-Men have 0 news from the actual source, just speculation. That means 2025 at the earliest probably. FF will maybe have a sequel out before any X-Men movies. 

2 hours ago, Savoyard23 said:

To me, FF 1 has that Action 1-style magic, even if it's not the 'coolest' book on the wall.  (And it's plenty cool, too.) 

I was just going to reply with this as my 'Holy Grail' book in the General thread.  In this case, I could take or leave the Stan signature, I just love the book.

Yup. Way higher ceiling too. FF have been done dirty in movie expectations. Marvel movies are 4-quadrant entertainment and a strong cinematic intro for the FF will make life-long fans more than the already-present X-Men fandom. Besides the fact FF1 started all of the Marvel we know and is many magnitudes rarer than X1. 

24 minutes ago, HighVoltage said:

Very interesting proposal, going from an FF #1 to an X-#1...
It's hard to say, projecting 5/10 years down the road. If I had guess right now, I'd say X-Men #1 (especially a grade up) would give you a win $$$-wise.
When I look at the FF vs X-Men, as far as being introduced in the Marvel cinematic universe, I think the X-Men are an easier fit. They tie into 'modern society' better with the variety of characters, plus the cool powers they have. The FF - they have been family/explorers. Will they be presented as such in the cinematic version? They are unique in the Marvel world in having that aspect. So - will movie/streaming folks want to see something family-related? The explorer part of it should be easy enough. I think Indiana Jones kind of adventures. I dunno...

Even if X-Men #1 moves past FF #1 price-wise, is there a correlation of FF#1 being Marvel's version of Action #1?
(yes, I know Marvel published stuff in the Golden Age, but FF #1 really is a complete re-set of the brand)

Are the X-Men basically Marvel's equivalent to Batman? (and thus Detective #27)
Batman has allowed DC to have almost a complete universe of its own within DC. Same for X-Men at Marvel.
A *lot* of stories can be told with Bats/X heroes and villains in many mediums.

Just food for thought. I love all these franchises... X / FF / Bats / ASM

I disagree. FF will be MUCH easier to integrate into MCU. Consider their origins. X-men are supposed to be around for 1000's of years - where have they been during all these avengers movies? Sitting around watching the world burn, just so they could be secretive?? FF will be easy - just say they are scientists working for Nick Fury and SWORD and an accident exposes them to cosmic radiation. 

While the X-Men are very popular, don't count out Marvel's FIRST Family. Kevin Feige clearly is prioritizing them before the X-Men and a strong movie can easily propel them to meteoric heights of fandom. Feige made the Guardians of the Galaxy a household name - who says he can't do the same with FF??

FF1 new records 9.0 - 264k!

8.5 - 132k!
What a difference a few ticks makes...

We're going to the moon, buckle in!

Hi,

How much does the UK pence variant affect value of silver age grails, like FF1, FF5, AF15, X1, etc? 

Thanks

47 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

A 7.0 copy sold for over $64K tonight on ComicLink.  That is nuts!

a 4.0 went for 20600 with fees!

This book will pass up AF15 at this rate if the movie is good. It's got 5 first apps and the start of a whole universe going for it. FF1 to the mooooon

22 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

I had to look up the two labels. I never realized there was a difference. 

I don't know if a change is necessary. I'm not offended by the omission of names on the FF1 label. It is kind of weird to think the mole man gets a name drop, but Mr Fantastic doesn't. 

 

Do you think they would need to make a distinction between the GA Human Torch and SA?  Could the lack of label space and that complication necessitate the different labels? 

seeing how they list all the names of the X-Men on the label makes me think the space is not an issue. Also, they could just call the FF by their human names to avoid confusion with the GA torch. 

Hey,

Does anyone else think FF#1 has a poor label defined by CGC? 

I think it should say something along the lines of X-Men #1's intro to all their new characters/team (who list each character) — "Origin and First Appearance of the Fantastic Four (Reed Richards, Sue Storm, Johnny Storm, Ben Grimm) and the Mole Man. First Marvel Comics title." 
-this way, the characters and history for Marvel as a publisher are well-described. As it sits, it doesn't sound like its the FF characters' first app, and the X-Men #1 label seems much better.

I know its a niche topic, but what are your thoughts?

Is it on average 2x of price on announcements? ie. if Marvel announced a movie for Gambit would prices double immediately?
What about older characters ie. Green Goblin? Would that be a higher pop?

thx

Marvel Premiere 10 - 1st appearance of Shuma-Gorath

1 hour ago, 90sChild said:

Do you work for Disney and you came here with the inside scoop on the next movies new characters? 
Shuma-Gorath is debated between Marvel Premiere #5 & #10 i think...  It is mentioned as spawning minions in #5 but don't remember if in the actual artwork.. #10 Might be the first time it is drawn/ depicted.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/shumagorath.htm

#5 is a super hard book to find in high grade, it took me years to find a raw 9.2, and according to the census still only 19 copies graded 9.2 and higher.  Then again this is not a popular book at all, so if we look at grades for Marvel Premiere #1 there's 350 copies 9.2 and higher.
 

Does CGC change their labels ever? I've seen Spiderwoman 2 graded and there's no mention of Morgan Le fey; same for Shuma on any of the Premieres...

@CGC ?

Hi, what does CGC consider to be the first appearances of Morgan Le Fey, and Shuma-Gorath? I cannot find any books graded by cgc that declare their first apps...

thanks

Hi, approximately how much are married comics deducted from original value? I know it is considered a type of restoration, but if a comic were only married, on say the fourth wrap, would this book still be worth approx. half value of an unrestored book in the same grade?

Thanks

The eBay seller of this book, uncanny stash, is a hack and shouldn't be trusted for grades

Complete. all staples attached. please help with grade.

thanks

When does cgc charge you for books you submit to be graded? Right when you place the order, or when they finally complete the grading and ship them back to you?
Thanks

16 minutes ago, oldrover said:

If they say so, yes. If not, I personally would not do it. Just my .

Do they remove the book from the slab when they determine if its removable?

3 hours ago, Black_Adam said:

More than likely. Restoration removal will damage the book as the only way to remove CT is either to cut away the color-touched area or to scrape it until all color has been removed (leaving white scars across the cover). While this may not be as noticeable on a mid-grade book it will be painful to view on one currently considered VF/NM.

Unless you are planning to immediately flip the book, I would leave it as is. Otherwise, based on my own experience, I can almost guarantee you won't view the (expensive) restoration removal as any kind of improvement.

 

The book is FF49, which sells for ~3k 9.0....I think its worth the chance in removing the color touch, no?