mike devon

1 minute ago, KCOComics said:

I agree, it's very individualistic and people have very particular tastes.  It's part of the fun of collecting. 

I have no particular issue with restoration if done right. My personal preference would be to only get a restored book if it was a book i couldn't afford in nice unrestored condition. 

To tell a quick story there was a really nice mid grade journey into mystery 83 that had a big obnoxious sticker on that front. I contacted Trace at eclipse paper restoration about removing it and boy did i get a lesson on conversation. That guy knows his stuff, was open and honest about costs and return on investment.  I didn't end up buying that book, but I wouldn't hesitate to work with Trace or buy a book restored by him. It would just need to be one of those big big titles for me personally. 

The conservators are the ones with the real knowledge.  Someone comics related said to me 'comics and water don't mix' - well in fact hydration is used all the time by conservators on paper works.  For 'gluing' they use starches that can be removed with water.  

To me a highly desirable book with a pro internal fix is a very minor thing.  Even married pages - if its done right you'd never be able to tell.  Covers yeah I understand people being ultra fussy.

What was Trace's verdict on the sticker - I expect it would have been a few hours work to remove it @ about £60 per hour..?

I saw someone on here say that hydrogen peroxide is used for lightening pages - well no it isn't any more.  At least its not the first choice as there are less invasive things available.

34 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

This is the issue. Every alteration on a book shrinks the pool of potential buyers. 

Personally,  I wouldn't buy a green or purple ASM50. 

On the other hand I'm looking for a IH1 and FF1 that presents well. In my price range I'll be looking at really beat up blue labels vs nicer looking purple labels. Maybe I would consider purple,  but I still wouldn't want green. 

When would I buy green?  Hard to find golden age. Superman 1, I would grab in any condition if I could afford it. 

I recently bought a Tec 26 with no back cover and love it. 

 

Hmm but Green is more 'pure' than Purple..?

Its very individualistic and subjective.  If I see 2 copies of the same book both £500 and one is a mangled Blue and one is a tidy Purple or Green I'd definitely consider the latter - it would depend on the book.  I'd buy a Purple ASM50 if all it had was one or 2 tiny colour touches.

In some ways comics collectors are fussier than pro conservators - I find this a bit odd as comics interiors are a very low grade item in the first place.  If you mend a tear in an original letter written by Lord Nelson why not an ASM 50..?

13 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

it isnt just staple holes that are used to determine if a cover is married.

Ink rubs, transfer from paper touching paper (inner cover to splash and last page to inside back cover) are another identifier.

Yeah - tampered staples, non-matching whiteness, trimmed edges, damage to the pages on re-insertion of staples - can't think of anything else but I'm sure there is other stuff.

If done well though would be pretty much impossible to detect - the tolerances the books were made under just aren't high enough.  I've seen mangled staples that are obviously from the factory. 

29 minutes ago, Point Five said:

Tough crowd. Look on the bright side: If we agree that the book is an automatic .5, the danger that it was overgraded by the ebay seller is now firmly off the table. 

 

Heh - to repeat though I wanted people's opinion of the general wear of the book aside from the missing page.  I didn't want to distract and get into a debate about marrying etc on this thread.

It hasn't been a waste of time at all as I got a good idea of the general opinion of the cover esp + the overall condition.  I now know its prob about a 5 so I can decide whether its worth trying a marry.  So its been really helpful to me.

28 minutes ago, Point Five said:

Mike, I would strongly advise you get a GPA subscription if you don't have one already. With respect, before you consider any more 'techniques', it is worth studying carefully the values for Universal copies vs Restored or Married copies. It may clear up some confusion as to what the market thinks of restoring... or 'tidying'... or marrying pages... of silver age books.

 

Sure.  What I'm trying to do is get people's opinions on here really.  Like PLODs ('death') - people on here seem to hate them but they do sell for quite high prices.

That's why I'm asking a lot of questions or suggesting things.  

I've got the full CGC grading guide and for me I've found that broadly people on here seem to be a bit more strict on grades than the guide.  I guess its good to be cautious when grading.

9 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

Was the missing page disclosed?

Hi yeah.  It was on Ebay for a large sum and I had a chat with the guy and got 30% off.  I got it for the same amount as some of the 1.0 FAIR ones that look as though they've been through a shredder.  I know a lot of folk wouldn't have touched it but for a complete one in similar condition it would be like $1500-$1700. Amazingly the really rough 1.0s do sell - I bet a lot do so pages can be nicked out of them.

13 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

I know you consider yourself a professional when it comes to paper.  None of the techniques I have seen you mention are favorable ones for comics.  That includes the pressing thread you started.  Maybe you should start asking instead of telling.  

You mean the tread offering to press any tatty single wraps - for fun really.

Pressing paper by hydrating is a conservators technique.  I think 'gluing' parts back using proper techniques is unacceptable to some but not others..?

7 minutes ago, zzutak said:

Automatic 0.5 PR (Poor).  Two plus pages of totally unnecessary discussion. 

No - I wanted to see what people's opinion was of the general condition without muddying the water.  There are very differing opinions about missing pieces.

Just now, Harry Lime said:

Wow, that's bad. Use a scanner!

They aren't my pics Harry I just bought it.  They are the sellers pics.

This in fact has a page missing.  Its an ad page  - that's why I was asking about it.  I have to decide how to deal with it.  As the staples are both still on the other half of the wrap I might see about marrying the page - it would have to be glued on using conservator techniques.

Reverse.  I think the book's a 4.5 now maybe 5.0.  I think 4.0 is too low.

Spine.  Wear but not horrific I don't think..?

4 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

The spine looks straight enough.

I wouldn't risk it. There's plenty more Goblins in the sea (where they would get a max of 2.0 for water damage).

Its definitely lens distortion - on this one the spine looks curved.

Just now, Harry Lime said:

The spine looks straight enough.

I wouldn't risk it. There's plenty more Goblins in the sea (where they would get a max of 2.0 for water damage).

Already bough it

6 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I don't collect incomplete books.

I would ask the expert to marry the single page.

OK so that would mean gluing it on.  Glue the single page (half wrap) onto the other side of the wrap which is still there and on at both staples.

5 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

Without seeing the spine clearer I would say 5.0 but it could well be as low as a 4.0.

My biggest reservation is that it may have been trimmed. The leading edge doesn't look straight at all. From the stalactites upward there's a definite curving inwards.

I think that curve is just the way its lying + camera distortion.

6 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'd get an expert to marry the page.

That's interesting - I'd expected most people to say just leave it.

So - if marrying would you attach the new page to the other side which is still there on both staples - or replace the whole wrap..?

4 minutes ago, Point Five said:

That would make no sense, as it would hurt the book's value. Compare the values of blue label copies versus purple label copies in the same grade. Restored books are frowned upon in the market, particularly for a silver age book where lots of copies are readily available at any time.

 

Yeah but I find it a bit perplexing that what is really conservation work will get lumped into the same bracket as a book thats got tape all over it + marker 'retouching'.  PLOD but completely different ethos\effect.

OK so you've bought a nice mega key that has the last page missing.  Assume its been cut out so the other side of the wrap - the opening splash - is still on the staples.

Do you:

1 - leave it and just ogle the book as is

2 - get a banger and insert the page loose inside the book

3 - get a banger and marry the whole wrap properly

I'm assuming the PQ and size would match up.  I'm sure there's no consensus on this.

I'm also wondering what this will do to grade/resale.  I've seen everything from 0.5 maximum grade and commensurate value on a married book to near guide depending on what the book is.

Cheers folks.  And really would it hurt it if I do a little tidy on the spine with conservators glue..?  I think there might be a couple of places where there are little breaks that are sticking up that could be pushed back down..?

13 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Finding nice unslabbed and unrestored Silver Age keys for a reasonable price can be challenging these days. I think you've been doing pretty well lately. Good luck with this one... 

Cheers LD.  I'm iffy about slabbing - I've seen what I think are big variations on grades.  Some really smart looking books getting 5.0s etc.  If I sell I'd offer returns if not happy but then you yourself are exposed to unscrupulous people - they could deliberately damage your book then return it.  Buyer always win on Ebay.

26 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

It's often pretty tough to look at a photo or scan and determine whether there's a small amount of amateur or professional color touch on a book. This is one of the reasons I purchase certified books; at least someone else has looked it over and (hopefully) arrived at the right conclusion.

From what I can tell, there's no obvious sign of color touch going on here. But with a book this old and this valuable, you never know. And I think a 4.5 or 5.0 is a reasonable grade...  

Cheers.  Well its ebay so if it has been retouched back it goes - or else a hefty part refund.  Yeah its definitely better than a 4.0.  This is a good example of a mid grade that I think will look quite smart when pressed. Most of the wear is pretty hidden on the spine.

1 minute ago, Dan'el said:

Are you referring to this issue where all of the internal wraps are reversed or something else? Have you seen a lot of reversed wrapped books or is this a color variation on a cover? 

Hi - it looks like 2 little scratches on the front cover but I've seen exactly the same marks on at least 20 copies of the same book.

23 minutes ago, TSwift25 said:

More or less. 4.0-ish as is, 5.0 would be the upper expectations I'd have for what could clean/press out.

Cheers - 4.0 VG - seems a little bit hard..?

ASM 6 has 2 little colour breaks by the Lizard's lower hand.  I've seen exactly the same issue on loads of them.

On a silver age major key what about a non story page missing..?  Not the whole wrap just one side of it..?  Qualified..?