mike devon

Just now, The Lions Den said:

My observation about the split is based on my memory of this book and the many copies of it I've seen. It stands out to me because it's the only early ASM that I recall having this particular issue. I make a mental note of flaws like this one, partly because this is the first issue of ASM that I ever remember reading, and partly because as a grader I try to remember specific characteristics about books, especially books I had when I was young. 

Anyway, I really like the book. Let me know if you decide to sell it... 

Cheers LD.  I am indeed going to sell it - probably after a clean and press.  Bearing in mind I paid a lot for it what would you be looking at to buy it..?

1 hour ago, Harry Lime said:

I've not heard of this production issue before on any comics but I'm far from the most knowledgable boardie, sorry.

Me neither till today Harry.  Nearly impossible to discern I'd say.  For me I would expect to pay less for one with the tear but in terms of fretting or losing sleep over it it doesn't bother me at all.  The same tear on a cover would drive me completely batty and I wouldn't buy it - unless it was like an ASM 1 I guess.

6 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

A 2" tear on an internal page is too much for a 7.5.

A solid 7.0.

Cheers Harry.  7.0 is fine by me - although as mentioned above this is a known factory issue on very early ASMs.  Is there any way to tell..?  It looks to me like a very clean split..?  I'm happy with a 7.0 but if its a factory split it would be very handy to know.

My mistake - the wrap ISN'T off the staple.  Don't know how much difference this makes..? Could be factory damage..?  No idea. 

How to tell..?  Looks like factory issue but who knows..?  All I can go on is what I can see and the book overall has practically zero normal handling wear - some dirt and mild stacking roll are the only real evidence it was ever owned and read.  Very tight staples.

How is it that some are grading this 6.5 as is and some 4.0..?  That is an enormous difference.

9 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I seem to recall this issue as having that defect more often than other early Spideys. It may be a manufacturing defect, which wouldn't be viewed as harshly. So yeah, I'd only knock it down a .5...

Thats interesting.  But how would we ever be able to tell..?  The book overall is in excellent condition - almost no wear at all which suggests factory issue.  The damage doesn't look like wear its just a clean split.  But it could be.

30 minutes ago, Deadpoolica said:

Now....based on what I see & what you stated

Cheers - so how much do you deduct for an internal split..?  0.5 or 1.0..?

1 hour ago, Deadpoolica said:

6.5

6.5 now or after clean and press..?  Are you knocking off 0.5 for the internal split..?

8 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

7.5 isn't an unreasonable grade. I would say closer to 7.0 IMO.

Cheers.  I'd say 7.5 without the internal centrefold split.  That's a shame but unless you open the book right up you don't see it.  As eye candy its great.

8 minutes ago, comicshark said:

I agree with your grade of 7.5 if pressed and dry cleaned...will look nicer. maybe a 7.0 as is. 

Cheers.  I'm thinking of selling it raw.  I didn't buy it to sell but I'm now thinking about trying for a low grade issue 1.  I don't think I'd get it pressed I'd leave that to potential buyer.  I like that its straight from original owner and totally raw.

What do you think the centrefold split takes off the grade - a whole grade or a .5..?

OK its just arrived.  Here are some quick pics including one at rake angle to highlight the flatness.

Laying flat it looks new - the only thing that says it isn't is a mild agedness.  The whites have gone a bit off white.

Centre fold split 2 inches - page off 1 staple.  Can't tell if factory or user.

The spine split/wear is about 2mm.  

Spine ticks 1 or 2 tiny tiny ones.

Bit of dirt on the back

Mild corner bend.

No restoration its straight out of an old old collection.

I think its 7.5..?  The centre fold split doesn't show unless you open it quite far out.

I'm very relieved - I was half expecting water damage or some other thing that wouldn't show on photos but there's nothing.

14 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

less reputable online sellers have been taking advantage of online buyers since online buying started. 

Absolute minefield.  All I can say is ebay protection is very good for buyers.

33 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

solve your worrys by buying cgc graded books. Then you know what you are getting isnt restored.

Yeah seems like it although its not even restoration it just accurate descriptions - ofc CGC solves that problem too.

18 minutes ago, B2D327 said:

Pretty sure a grader would inspect it very carefully using the optimal lighting to pick up those imperfections just for that reason. Just because it’s not easily spotted doesn’t mean it’s not there and the goal is letting you know how close/far a book is from perfect and preserve it and a lot of books do score lower than what the person submitting it expected

Sure - except I can't remember ever seeing surface fluctations - or whatever you'd call an artifact that isn't a crease or a ding/dent - on a description.  Its always other mechanical issues.  'Book lies flat' - would that cover it..?

Also factory/handling artifacts - I'm not sure how easy it is all this time later to tell those apart from wear.  Except if you've seen the same book repeatedly with the same damage.

On a Spidey 121 level of book its not that crucial is it.  An apparent 8.5 may turn out to be a 7 or 7.5 - not the end of the world but on higher value books it really matters.

Its making me really wary - although I guess with ebay you can return it but it seems potentially like a lot of hassle taking a punt on conditions.

7 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I recommend you post images of the entire front and the back so the users of this forum can give you the best advice.

Personally I can see more defects in this picture than just that corner bend.

 

Cheers.  Yes there are a few defects but I'm really only interested in that type of corner bend.  I'm not asking folks to grade this book.

Apart from the bend I'm wondering about the other dings - would a grader usually look at a book under such harsh light..?  Do they side light books..?  The reason I'm asking is I think if all books were graded like this then a lot would presumably score lower..?  Obviously not a pristine book but anything thats been mildly handled or read I would expect a level of wear that normal handling would not pick up..?  Or factory defects..?

I took the least flattering side-light pic I could - this was deliberate so you can see everything.

On normal viewing in normal light you can't see these creases at all - you have to angle it into the light.  The book in the hand looks like an 8.5 at least.

No colour break.

So my question is:  presuming starting from a 10 what would these ceases bring it down to if the only defect.

Also would pro graders subject a book to harsh direct natural light in this way..?

thanks in advance

1 minute ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

You're putting a massive task in front of yourself if you're trying to enter the dealer/"flipper" game right now.

There are so many decorated, 'all-knowing' guys out there in the business already, who basically consume and churn all of that business.

I wish you good luck, but must advise that it's a bad idea if you don't know all of the ins-and-outs prior to putting your foot in the ring.

Thanks Capra - I think I'm thinking I can make a bit buying at local auctions.  I nabbed that Spidey 6 at auction and its likely a 7.5 (hasn't arrived yet).  I didn't buy it to flip but if I can make a bit I might sell it to fund something else.  As you do

11 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Do not "only buy graded". Please, just don't.

Small flaws shouldn't dissuade anyone from buying anything. Or large flaws, for that matter. Are you only looking to re-sell? If so, then you need to learn grading, and how to get deals etc. If you're looking for personal collection, then do small flaws like these really bother you?

If you're buying from an "amateur", then yes, it's almost certain that you will find small flaws that were not disclosed. Even more-so if you're buying "collections" and not single books or small lots. It's just the nature of the beast.

If you buy collections, and want to submit them for grading and make sure you get the best results, then pressing prior to grading is always your best bet on comics with press-able flaws like this.

Thanks again.  Probably looking to re sell yes to flip to get higher grade books.  But even if you buy from a dealer they may honestly not spot these kinds of issues.  I restore toy boxes so I can spot the tiniest issue.

I guess at my level averaging a few hundred pounds/dollars per book its not such a huge issue but its still an issue.

Does EVERY dealer know about holding books up to the light at a 'rake' angle in order to see surface issues..?  I do it next to a window so everything is highlighted.

14 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Non-color-breaking creases/bends are definitely not as bad. You can have this pressed out.

You can't discern when/where the flaw happened. It could have arrived from Diamond with a bend like this, but that doesn't make it a "manufacturing error" as it wasn't printed like that. If you can't see a flaw in images, of course a seller could say that it wasn't in that condition pre-shipping, but then as the customer, you could say "item not delivered as-described". A seller should always ship comics in a method that maintains the condition as-owned. That doesn't always happen, though.

Is this perceived to be a minefield..?  what if you buy a nice looking collection from an amateur who honestly describes them but then find on close look they have these kinds of issues..?  A 'normal' person would think you were a bit batty..?

I understand only buy graded but if everyone only ever bought graded then this whole enterprise would dry up wouldn't it.?

6 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Let's pretend that the comic is otherwise a 9.8 grade.

It seems like something, because it not only impacts the cover - but multiple pages, may might bring it into 9.4 range.
If we're pretending it's anything below 9.2, then it may bring it a 0.5 grade lower.
If it's this visually obscure, but there upon inspection, that's usually the criteria for me.

Again, this is all uncertain without photographic evidence. Just trying to help the best that I can.

Thanks thats really helpful - in other words in theory its not a big big drop like a rip or some bodge retouching.

It begs the question to me about any kind of dings/non-breaking creases:  how the heck do you know if its factory stuff or not and what do you do if you buy from scans but when you inspect it its got dings - couldn't the seller claim you did it..?

9 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Basically impossible to advise without an image to reference. Sorry.

23 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Basically impossible to advise without an image to reference. Sorry.

Thanks - tough to get a pic of it.  From a scan it wouldn't show at all which is a bit worrying as you could get scans on a book and it could have bends/factory dings and you'd never know till it arrived - and the book might have cost £10 000.

Hi folks.  I don't have a pic as its a very subtle thing and hard to capture so I don't know if anyone can help.

Is there a general rule for a mild corner bend through the cover and 2/3 inner pages..?  Absolutely definitely no colour break on cover.  Would you expect that to knock a whole grade off..?

Again sorry no pic but its invisible head on - if you angle the book you can see it but I can't get decent pic.

What do you guys think about this..?  I mean missing as in never put in.  I suppose a book with both missing - that had never been stapled - would arguably be a potential gem mint..?

How about if just 1 staple is missing - does that devalue..?

22 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

Yes, it's safe. Look at the sales threads on here, the majority of those books are scanned.

OK thanks very much.