Frisco Larson

Captain America #54

Wonderworld Comics #33

V Comics #1

Sub-Mariner #34

Comedy Comics #11

Perhaps my favorite house ad, from my copy of Action Comics #12 ... possibly the first time The Batman ever appeared in print form!!!

No worries, you were fine, and I actually amended my comment because there was mention of an element of the timeframe but also there was an earlier period where there were only 8 titles per month, so the information was just a bit tangled, but both statements were accurate, just a bit tangled up and I didn't want it to be confusing. Btw, I dig your avatar as I'm a HUGE Godzilla fan! My FB profile pic is Godzilla and it used to be this painting that a longtime friend did based off the 1954 Godzilla.

That IS a beauty!!!

This has been debunked many times, most recently in Prince Namor's excellent thread entitled "Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1963) Butting Heads, Unexpected Success and Not Expected Failures!" which clearly shows that even in the early 60s Marvel was publishing 11+ titles per month, and that Independent News didn't give Goodman restrictions on how many titles they could publish. In your statement, you claim that Independent News didn't give Goodman restrictions on how many titles they could publish. That is a direct quote, see above. Evidence supports that there WAS a restriction and the statistics I provided about only 8 titles per month for the duration I outlined are fact. Maybe someone on some other thread thinks Atlas/Marvel published that amount and ONLY that amount for that period of time for another reason. I don't know. I don't care. Everyone can believe whatever they want as far as opinion, but facts are facts. I'd like to add that I believe Marvel COULD'VE added a Cap title to their roster before they did, likely by 1964 or so, as the previous 8 title restriction was no longer in effect at that point in time.

From December 1957 (not long after the arrangement with Independant News was made) until September of 1960, the Atlas/Marvel entity only published 8 titles per month! That's not opinion, that's a fact which you can check at any time. Perhaps after that, since they'd been a good customer of Independent News for a few years, there was some renegotiation of titles per month that they could publish? I don't know. I doubt anyone else does either. I seriously doubt that anyone could rely on Stan's memory from so long ago and I'm sure nobody thought ANY of this would be considered important half a century later.

How could I have left out Marvel Mystery and his movie serial? Thank you for mentioning those!!! Something else that deserves mention of the Golden Age Flash title is that he was the cover feature on only four of the first ten issues, then he alternated with Hawkman every other month, so while the title was Flash Comics, he was essentially a co-star. Cap was the cover feature on all but one issue of his title, the last issue, which they switched to a horror format. Great point about him getting several try-out issues in Showcase before they decided to resume publishing his former title! That indicates that they may not have had tremendous confidence in the character until they saw some sales results. Again, it's only my opinion that Cap was and is more popular. Individual results may vary!

4 faces on a butterfly to 5 faces on/in a teapot.

Agreed, the December 2020 numbers are apples to apples (which is why I posted them, as a direct comparison). The other numbers from around 4 to 6 months later were offered to show the "change" I see taking place in the market and hierarchy of most valuable comics. If there were any Flash #105 sales in 9.4 after the referenced one in December 2020, I'd have included them, but alas, that is the last recorded sale of that issue in that grade.

It's my opinion that Cap was more popular then and now, just my opinion and nothing that can be considered (or was offered as) a fact. Cap debuted in Captain America #1 and by most accounts, was immediately successful, and it didn't have a big-league co-star like Hawkman doing a LOT of the heavy lifting (most collectors I know that collect any portion of the Flash run collect the Hawkman covers & find the Flash covers after the first dozen or so to be silly). It could also be said that following Cap's immediate popularity, there were a lot of knock-off characters in his likeness. I don't recall a wave of speedy characters, but there were a few, in Flash's likeness. Captain America headlined in USA Comics and also starred in All Winners & All Select, with a smattering of other stories appearing in other Timely mags, such as Sub-Mariner, Blonde Phantom, etc. To the point of, "He started in the GA before CA, was in print longer, and where CA’s 1950s revival failed the Flash’s succeeded. Flash was tarring in his own book in the SA a decade before CA, and a JLA headliner years before CA was revived in the Avengers." I think that spoke more to the conditions at Timely/Atlas/Marvel than it did to the popularity of Cap (with the exception of the Atlas superhero revival ... I think maybe people were kind of 'done' with a patriotic hero for a while). Cap had his own named cartoon series in 1966 with a number of Marx toys and others, like buttons, t-shirts, posters, etc. on the market in the 60s. And this last point speaks to why I think Cap is more popular now than the Flash: "Flash is in movies now and CA is done in the MCU." Caps first three movies have brought in well over 2 BILLION dollars at the box office and Flash has brought in nothing. If his movie/s follow a similar pattern among DC movies, it might be lucky to recover its budget. THAT, of course, remains to be seen. It's funny, like most debatable things in the world, a lot if it is how one chooses to interpret numbers, gauge popularity and which tools to choose to support one's beliefs and which ones to exclude that don't support the case one is trying to make. I think we've both made valid points here and that's good, because debating a topic while remaining respectful seems to be a bit of a lost art these days.

My recollection of when the Gaines EC File Copies came to market was that the collectors who were currently holding the majority of high-grade ECs prior to the release of the Gaines copies were the ones who felt the biggest impact. Now their books were largely well below the nicest in existence, and therefore probably worth less than they had been previously. That's what I remember hearing. I wasn't collecting ECs so I was on the sidelines.

5 noted features on cover in one comic to how features change on cover in comics lineage 4 issues later.

Scroll up to the "Man in the Beehive" pic and see the website listed under it. I think you can read most comics on that site. I've never gone to it myself, but I see others reference it here on occasion.

I agree, a LOT of things don't make sense. That said, over time, people become conditioned to believe things they've been repeatedly told, such as rarity of certain comics, the prices they should be worth, etc. Speaking strictly from my experience with the realm of collectors I frequently talk with, most would rather have a Daredevil #1 over a Flash #105. You might not have that same result in talking with your collector friends and that's cool if you don't. It's just all part of what makes our hobby interesting and sometimes challenging to navigate. Btw, it's these different perspectives that I enjoy hearing about from other collectors! Knowledge IS power and I like to learn something new every day if I can!

Molecule Man to Madam Macabre.

Really? I just did a quick GPA check, no in-depth market analysis, just a quick check and here's what I found. A 9.4 Flash #105 sold in Dec 2020 for $58,000 and a Daredevil #1 in 9.4 sold that same month for $33,000. However, that changed VERY quickly, as just under 4 months later (April 8th), a DD #1 in 9.4 sold for $72,000, another one a week later at $67,850 and one 2 months later at $78,000. Those aren't my opinion, those are real world prices pulled from the most widely used pricing resource. I disagree that a Flash #105 in 9.4 would "certainly" sell for more than a Daredevil #1 in 9.4 and the statistics appear to support that.

Hero dog to hero rabbit

The thing that stands out the most to me is the fact that Flash #105 is SO highly placed compared to quite a few of the books it beats! From what I can tell, it's his 5th Silver Age appearance! Ok, so they fire-up his old title and continue the numbering. That's worth more than the first appearance of DAREDEVIL??? That's crushingly worth more than the first Silver Age appearance of Captain America??? I think most would agree that Cap was more popular and widely known in the Golden Age and is more popular and widely known now!!! I could see it if it was the first appearance of the Silver Age Flash, but it's not by a long shot! Doesn't make sense to me.

Have to have a reader copy too!!! SUCH a neat book!!!