gmasstermcd

On 3/25/2024 at 6:32 PM, revat said:

I'm not sure if it has been tried yet, but I would think if you emailed/called CGC customer service with direct question about the existence of a specific Provenance/Collection, they would at minimum be able to confirm/deny the existence of the collection, even if they don't provide any other info about it.

Thanks for the suggestion I just emailed them. Hopefully I hear something back soon.

On 3/22/2024 at 2:11 PM, Wipple said:

Pedigree Comic Book Collections | CGC (cgccomics.com)

 

Yes that's the Pedigree Collection list. I am wondering about a Provenance Collection list. Thanks for the link Though.

I am wondering because I have seen a seller on Whatnot claiming they have a CGC provenance label but there doesn't seem to be any way to confirm this. It sounds fishy to me also because the seller is saying that they are going to Florida and there is going to be a big announcement about it with Mat Nelson and I would think if that was true CGC would not want this announcement being spread around on Whatnot before they could break the news. Like when they did the Fantast collection they made a big deal about it with announcements about the label and they had some of the books already slabbed so they could show it off when it was announced, and they had books lined up to be auctioned off to help advertise the auction and the collection. Has anyone ever heard of the SRP Apex collection? That's what the guy on Whatnot is saying his label is going to be. I attached a screen shot of his post talking about it in his Youtube comments as well. Spoiler he calls it a CGC Providence collection which also makes it seem less legit.

On 3/19/2024 at 2:19 PM, Mdesimone said:

There really is no other option but to send back to cgc, it’s not cost effective to sue the scammers yourself. How are you going to prove anything to the courts. Cgc can do that for you. I don’t get is why they can’t reimburse us for the books they take into evidence now, why do we have to wait?

There is always other options. If you are someone affected by this you throw lawsuits at everyone CGC, the scammers, Whoever sold you the book, CCG, etc. and let the courts decide who has to pay you. If a decent portion of the people affected by this started filing suit against CGC it would get worked out real fast. Even if it is just small claims court filings.  

Is there a list available of all the collections CGC has awarded Provenance Status to, like the Fantast collection?

On 1/5/2024 at 9:25 PM, HighGrade said:

That Batman 442 in 9.0 is not even a 442, it's a actually #436 look at the picture with the cert. why was that even graded, unless maybe it was a 436 reprint that sold for high amounts, I guess it got mislabeled, but never sent back to correct. That's just weird all the way around.

Oh probably because the inside guy did it on purpose to allow the scammer to save on shipping by bundling reholders with that book as a mechanical error.

On 1/5/2024 at 6:38 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I know his Ebay page says he's in Forest Hills, but if you dig a little deeper - it's showing his location as Jamaica, NY.

 

Jamaica New York is where UPS and FedEx's biggest delivery hub is.

On 1/4/2024 at 9:10 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Where are they getting the ASM #300 % from?  That seems really high.

Well there are 350 books on the list 104 of them are ASM #300 and when you do the math 104/350 = 0.297 * 100 = 29.7. So I believe that's where they get it from.

The scary part is that 86 of the 104 are 9.8's which works out to 5.57% of the 1543 universal 9.8's that are potentially fraudulent. About 1 in 20.

On 1/4/2024 at 10:18 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Listen dude tough to have a real conversation with someone who doesnt know what auction sites even charge or knows the difference between market value and net profit.

 

Heritage charges 10% sellers and 20% buyers premium I simplified it into 30% I know the numbers are functionally different but the resulting difference is miniscule, and yes you can negotiate sellers premium depending on what you are selling up to and including a negative sellers fee, however that is for top echelon comics. Also I understand the difference between market value and net profit, but the comparison you should make is between market value and gross profit not net profit. As the amount you would receive from an auction company is still not your net profit. That being said when talking about how much money you would receive from a sale and comparing the percentage someone offers to buy your books versus fair market value and comparing what you would receive from an auction company after they take their fees is the same principle. All this because I think your offer of buying my entire collection for 50% FMV was not that bad of an offer.

On 1/4/2024 at 9:01 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Market Value and Net Profit are not the same.

On 1/4/2024 at 9:03 PM, pdags said:

Honestly, you're kind of being a jerk and ruining the thread.

On 1/4/2024 at 9:04 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

No need for name calling

Calling someone a jerk and saying someone is being kind of a jerk are not the same.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:57 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Others replied you are just the one who kept it going the longest.

 

Yes other people replied a couple who didn't give the answer you wanted so you put hidden posts about trying to catch a rabbit and then another user with 70 total posts. You are just trying to stir drama and that's fine for you but just admit it don't act like you are trying to show hypocrisy of people that complain on the forums a lot.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:56 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

You usually buying at Market Value, and most sell at Market value.

I understand you point, but when it time to sell I am sure you wont be okay with 50% of the value just to be a nice guy

Where are you selling books at market value? Even Heritage takes 30% so you are only selling at 70% market value, and if you go to a comic shop you are lucky to start negotiating at 50% of FMV.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:52 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

The point I was getting some of people here *see below* are the same people who complain on these boards 24/7, and are total hypocrites.  They say for example in this thread values of CGC are now drastically heading downward, but if they sold any of their CGC books they would certainly not discount them because of this scandal.  Nothing was directed at you personally.

I didn't take anything personally. I do find it odd that you thought "are the same people who complain on these boards 24/7" and decided to "prove your point" to me who had less than 15 posts total before this.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:48 PM, wombat said:

Well if you are a collector and have the books you have because you want them and not an investor or seller everything you said makes zero sense. I have never sold a book in my life. I'm sure I have some that have dropped in value. I don't care. 

Apart from that your agonizingly long endeavor to prove your "point" was painful to watch. 

Exactly value to collectors rarely has anything to do with how much you can sell a book for.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:45 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I am just asking an honest question about the falling knife that some of you claim is happening.

I mean if I owned stock in a company and it was going to zero I would love to have someone like me there to buy it before you lose it all.

Would you like to sell your CGC books before they go to zero?  I will give you 50% of current market value.

50% of market value is not that low. It's what decent comic shops offer. Anyone trying to pitch a collection that would go to a shop maybe they get offered 60-65% on already graded books but 50% isn't a horrible offer to start

On 1/4/2024 at 8:40 PM, ShaggyB said:

Look at it this way.

While your faith in cgc is shaken, the fact that the scammer was doing this to books you have at the grade level you have them at means they are more desirable as he was cheating people out of money who want what you legitimately have.

So again, short term it feels devalued and may be harder to cash out on today, but long term it retains and grows in value because it is highly sought after and it never really lost that value due to its age and rarety

See I am not worried about cashing out. I am not a reseller or anything like that I am a collector I collect books that I like and I grade them in cases that I like. For e.g. all my golden age books are in other slabs because I like the minimalist design of the previous labels, now that they changed the label they don't get my golden age books. 

In this situation I was asked if my personal collection ha lost value. Yes my personal collection has lost value to me.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:39 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

But if you crack those books out of the CGC case do the values go back up because they are not in a CGC case?

If I lose enough faith in CGC that I don't want to look at their slabs on my wall anymore than yes them being cracked out will increase their value to me.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:33 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I am offering you a lifeline to get out before the values of all comic books go to zero!!!!!!

50 or so ASM 194's, ASM 252's and ASM 300's has now showed the hobby what power they have.

Please take my money!  I am begging you!

Oh I see you think you are being smart or that you are making a witty joke based off the assumption of some people having an emotional reaction to this instance that doesn't conform to what you think is an acceptable reaction. Some of my books have plummeted in market value over the past few years but when I see my Green Lantern 76 that I had signed at a convention after talking with Neil Adams for about 15 minutes I value it higher than I could ever get by selling it. So now I have CGC books that have less value to me because the case they are in is from a company that I am losing faith in. I am sorry if that doesn't fit into your idea of how I should react.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:28 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Okay I will buy you out of it at 50% of current GPA.

Before it goes to zero.

Fair then right?

Why would I sell you my personal collection? I am not a reseller as far as I am concerned books graded in CGC cases have lost value to me. When I look at it on the wall and am reminded of all the bad stuff that CGC has had happen that effects it's value. It's almost to the point that I want to crack them and keep them raw.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:22 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So lets I say you have a CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 (NOT on the scammer list).  That book is now worth less than it was before the scandal?

I do have a CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 that is not on the list and yes it is not as valuable as it was before this scandal. Just like it is not as valuable now as it was before CGC removed information from their labels.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:19 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So how much has your books gone down in value?

10 20 50 75%?

I should be more specific the books themselves I don't think are devalued but the books in a CGC case are devalued. Percentage wise I don't know but I can say not quite enough to crack them out of their cases and keep them raw but it depends on how it's handled from here on out.

On 1/4/2024 at 8:16 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

That's not the question though. 

Are your own personal collection of CGC's now devalued? 

Yes for sure.

On 1/4/2024 at 6:10 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Does anyone here actually think this hurts the current value of their own CGC books they currently own?

Please quote me so I can ask you the next question.

Probably. I think it really hurts the value if you own one these books. Also with potentially 5% of ASM 300 9.8s being affected once it's sorted out you might think that the value of the real 9.8's could go up because they are slightly rarer.

On 1/4/2024 at 1:09 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

I know if I dig more into my submissions I can find more examples, but here is one of the submissions where I had graders notes on all 8 books including the 9.8s.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yes you have a submission that had 4 qualified books that basically require graders notes the 2 9.6's and two 9.8's I can see this having an easily explanation that the grader had to put notes on at least half the books so they just did notes on  the whole submission. This doesn't seem like an unexplained statistical outlier.