Aman619

doesnt a comic that is sold polybagged have to say in the bag in order to be considered complete? Has that "policy" changed in the view of collectors and price guides?

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ahuh ahuh ahuh ahuh aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ahuh ahuh ahuh ahuh aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ahuh ahuh ahuh ahuh aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ahuh ahuh ahuh ahuh SAY IT ISNT SO!!!!!! BTW ahuh ahuh is the best I could come up with to spell catching my breath...

Jayman - - I caught your version first and was gonna mention how I never mentioned how cool good ol Stan's sense of humor was back then!!! nice one!

they mustve been in the order that got me banned for life!!

I picked up a 65 and 66 from Chuckles a few years ago... but no 63. I didnt return them, so they must have been decent..

theyve sur ecome along way from good ol Doom 1 I used to love!!

this is such a great thread!!! I always bought read and loved these books when they came out, and its so cool to see them displayed and sought after now after so many years!!! They were such forgotten and unloved stepchildren for so many years until you guys came along!! Great work guys!!

sounds right to me. I was under the impression that mid grade comics of all kinds were slow sellers and a bad buy because they do not increase in value along with their high grade cousins. But, of late, the keys find buyers at increasing prices. Commons do not. Seems many collectors genuinely want the keys and will settle for lower grades that are affordable.

o that wacky Joe!!

I was just looking at my Weird Wars last night including this cover...and I thought about posting it. Notice Kubert's little in joke on the cover???

nobody, nt veen Vincent is getting my Double Action 3! or was it Triple Action 2??

well.. for those of you scoring at home, there it was-- the V rebuttal, right on time, and quite a nice one at that, I might add. Nicely covered the bases. Layed out quite a believable scenario. No undue emotion. No threats. Vinnie's like the Bill Clinton of Comics! The Teflon dealer. Very impressive. I'm being overly facetious.... Obviously we see yet AGAIN, that there is another side to every story. sigh... I STILL think Vinnie will give the dam book to Ian someday.... and cant we all just get along???

Dont worry, Ian youll get a copy eventually... especially if its the last one you need. When you get to that point, someone will loan you one or sell it to you for a year or something if only to share your glory and picture in CBG, Scoop, etc. Just keep plugging away. ,,,and relax..... theres no time limit on this. Maybe Vinnie bought FOR you and is gonna give it to you soon....

okay... gotcha I forgot the England factor and after trying 2/4/04 in my head, it was still tomorrow! Except in jolly old England. So after coming on here ane making nice, privately Vincent has still keeping the wheels in motion?? that really sucks. Guess we'll just have to wait for V to come on here again and explain this away. So lets not jump to comclusions: many here were pretty quick to see it "both ways" last time remember? But this will be hard for even The Great Vincino to extract himself from. .. not saying its inconceivable that he can, mind you.....

Im missing something. the first email was from October when this came to a head. The second one about you not getting the Double Action was from next month (4/2/04) whats going on??

Betty?? Was Betty even ON that cover?? mannnnn, could they get away with that leotard drawing back then? No wonder I read my Archies like a good boy every month...

why are you distorting my point? Am I ridiculous? You seem hellbent to prove I am with your replies extrapolating bits of what I am saying. In your example of two adjacent "common books, the 9.4s should sell for the same prices. Where have I said that a MUCH more common book would sell for MORE than a "scarcer" book in the same grade? What Im saying, to use your example, is this: Here's you sample data again, but in my scenario, the best copies are a lone 9.6 and a lone 9.2. I dont think the 9.6 should sell for 10x (or whatever the multiple is for 9.6 compared to 9.2) more than the 9.2. Because both are far and away the BEST copies, IMO IT IS IRRELEVANT that one is two grades higher than the other. CM #49 8.0 1 copy 8.5 0 copies 9.0 0 copies 9.2 1 copies 9.4 0 copies 9.6 0 copies CM #50 8.0 1 copy 8.5 0 copies 9.0 0 copies 9.2 0 copies 9.4 0 copies 9.6 1 copies Foithermore, your example sugests that I should have been more specific about which books Im talking about.... Ifeel this applies to "one-of-a-kind books: #1s, keys etc. where the BEST copy stands pretty much alone. NOT to mid-run commons as in you example. AND -- the onlyother time this 'rule' does not apply, is when I OWN the lone 9.6!! Then its worth more money than God!!

This theory will only work on the assumption that ALL of the existing high grade copies have already been graded. Right now this is not very likely since CGC is still relatively new. Most of the long-term collectors with high grade books have not even given any thought to getting their books CGC'd yet since they don't have any current intention of selling. I agree wholeheartedly .... for Modern Bronze and Silver. But specifically in this case, and generally for similar books, I am talking about the 9.4 Human Torch, and some of the wildly nice MH lesser #1s (Crack, Wow etc) where the best copy, whether 9.2 4 or 6 or even 8 is less important than the fact that its the best copy and where we can already assume that the census will not change dramatically. Lots more books to be graded sitting in collections....but not so many for early GA in HG..Agree?? Timely has an awesome collection, I presume, Geppi has a warehouse rivalling the last scene in Indiana Jones. But How many other Human Torch #1s above 9.0 do you think there are?

your first interpretation was off the mark. But the second was right on the money. Yes, I fell that the best copy should sell for the most regardless of grade! Im saying that the RANK of the copy is MORE IMPORTANT than the CGC grade. If the best is a 9.2, or 9.4 or 9.6, why should the levels of multiples still apply??? The best copy in this case is not "competing" with books in all levels of grade. Why step up the price as you get to the best? IMO, for any books with copies in all grades, if a 9.2 sells for 10K, and a 9.4 for 20K, a 9.6 would be worth 30K or whatever the appropriate multiplier is. But for a book with only an 8.5 and a 9.6, Im saying the 9.6 is only "worth" a number greater than the 8.5 - - NOT the same number that the 9.6 in the heavily populated census would earn. The seller can ASK for the same multiple..but IMO, the buyer would be crazy to pay that number. Im saying that the RANK of the copy is MORE IMPORTANT than the CGC grade Do you actually care if your copy is a 9.4 or a 9.6 if its the BEST copy? When you were buying HG pedigrees, you paid for the name because it generally meant that you were buying one of the best existing copies. But noone really knew which was really nicer : MH, Allentown, Larsen etc. (except for a select few who had actually seen both over the years...but never at the same time) Now suddenly CGC has seen and graded many of them. Do you really put so much stock in their number system that you'd pay twice as much for the lone 9.6 as the lone 9.4 if the next best copy was an 8.5 or 9.0??? I dont!

also, for me, if the best copy is 9.4 and the next best copies are 8.5. 8 and 7.5s, Its th ebest copy period, and theres no need for the usual CGC multiples to even apply to the price. The multiples are for issues for which copies in ALL grades exist to choose from, and the prices increase every step up the ladder. I have a big problem with the CGC 9.4 multiple for books with one HG copy. If thsi were a 9.8 should it sell for $300K?? NO. Its still just the best copy....and should be priced more than all others...with no pre-ordained multiple involved.

Any one who buys a six-figure comic book, whether hes a multi-millionaire or just getting by. is looking at that purchase as an investment. He has parked money in the comic, and expects to make money on it. To say that he's just buying what he likes just never does it for me. I posted this essay because of the faulty logic inherent in it, and that the arguments put forth were so self-serving. And contradict themselves. Human Torch is no Action#1. The huge price jumps since 1885 are not necessarily going to replicate themselves in the next 16 years. (This Torch#1 would sell for 5 million if that were true) .

I missed the other thread..thanx for the heads up.

PGCMint has a new "article" up on their website. Its a rant on why buying the best at any price is the smart way to go. He cites the MH Action#1 sale at $20K, and the White Mountain sales of AF15 and ASM#1 as evidence to prove that his recent purchase of the 9.4 Human Torch1 was just such a smart buy on a par with those deals.... and, of course, that the same comic, now for sale at 'only' 3.4xGuide is very reasonable! ...But it seems he forgot that all those previous great deals only looked smart after at least ten years had gone by... Read it for yourself: I remember when a NM copy of Action Comics #1 sold for $20,000.00 to a private collector back in the early 1980's. The hobby was buzzing with all kinds of questions and comments, which is normal considering that a record price was just realized for a comic book. Most of the questions were, "who was the collector?", as dealers desperately wanted his name. Why? To sell him more books of course. I remember he was simply known as THE DENTIST and only a small circle of people knew his name. What followed this amazing transaction was a series of gossip (actually a mountain of it) by disgruntled dealers, giving their opinion on this historic sale. I heard statements like this - "The sale was bogus, he paid far less than that", and "what insufficiently_thoughtful_person would pay 20k for a comic book!?", and "----- (The dealer) really raked that poor sap over the coals!", etc. I heard this type of gossip for years. Now, this dentist did something quite unheard of in our business. He kept the book! He did not offer it up for sale again. As the years passed, the dealers and collecting world realized just how smart that dentist was. Not some, but all lamented not buying that book when they had the chance. What is the book worth now? Can you believe he actually passed up an offer of one million dollars?! I spelled the price out so you can get a better feel for what I just said. The bottom line is that he bought the best and paid a visionary price for it. He was no dummy. This is but one story in our hobby. There are many, many, more. Take for instance, the White Mountain copy Amazing Fantasy #15 that sold for the record price of $37,000.00 at a Sotheby's auction in the mid 1990s. So much negative gossip was spoken about that sale that the original buyer actually backed out - for a while. Or how about the collector who bought the White Mountain copy of Amazing Spider-Man #1 for a record price of $14,000.00? The gossip was that he was naive and taken advantage of. Hmm.... both of those books ended up grading 9.4 by CGC by the way and today will easily fetch multiples of the prices paid. The list of such sales goes on and on. And the shortsighted myopic gossip continues. Dealers will always talk, always play Monday morning quarterback to transactions made outside of their involvement. It is the same in every hobby, so comic collecting does not hold the corner on the market of foolish prattle. I remember when a certain Hockey player bought the finest known specimen of a Honus Wagner baseball card. He paid an incredible sum of money for a very rare high grade card. And for that he was called foolish. The card's condition was held suspect. The auction was put into question, etc, etc. He later sold it for a profit and it ended up reselling for over one million dollars. It now holds the position as the world's most valuable baseball card. Last month I purchased a book that I have looked long and hard for - Human Torch #1 (1940). Since I first entered the hobby back in the late 1960s, I never have seen a true NM copy of this book. Nearly every high grade copy I saw was restored in some way. Although Bob Overstreet never listed it as scarce in NM in his price guide, I never could find one. The best that ever came through my hands was a beautiful VF back in 1998 that I immediately sold, thinking it was common in that grade (if I only knew what I know now!). When this beautiful CGC graded NM 9.4 surfaced, it is what I call a no-brainer. You do not hesitate, you buy it. It is the best. Not by a small margin either. The second best copy is an 8.5, so this was a very easy decision (Thank you CGC!). I was thrilled to get it and thrilled to be able to offer it. No other dealer in the world can offer you this book in the 9.4 grade. Until they can, opinion on value is of no value. I have been at this too many years to be swayed by the gossip of others. My asking price of just under 3.4x guide is actually below statistics for Key #1 issues in the CGC 9.4 grade, especially if it is the only one. There is no question that time will show this to be an excellent buy, an excellent opportunity. I made a statement a year ago, one that I am firm as ever on and it will not change. Buy the BEST and hold on to it. If you do this you will do well. (please read my other articles for more information). A bit of information about the Human Torch: ........(history lesson deleted...)

Just cause its rare doesnt means its worth more than 3 dollars. Right now only two people in the world care about it: you and them. What SHOULD it list for in Guide?

hey Pov, love the cute butterfly!