buyatari

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I am not a Deadpool or a Harley fan, but, if given the choice, I'd take the NM 98 cover, hands down.  I can at least appreciate that this is a real first appearance in a mainstream title by the character's creator drawn in his own style and not just the adaptation of a cartoon character by someone other than her creator for DC's out of continuity kiddie Batman title. Pass!  

Comic art prices don't have to make sense, of course. But, sales like ASM 328 prove nothing other than occasionally we can get freak results, not that this sets any kind of new benchmark, or that we should expect these kinds of results for every high profile piece that comes along; McSpidey 1 and ASM 121 didn't shoot to 7-figures just because ASM 328 fetched $657K.

........and  ASM 328 didn't sell for 20k because of what you can buy classic Kirby splash pages for. 

So why should Kirby splash pages affect the prices of BA12?

Different people buying different items for different reasons. 

I can't afford to write a check for BA12 so my vote doesn't really count.  However, I would like a page from Mad Love. I'd take that over a New Mutants Deadpool page any day. 

27 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

That would be a great point...if we lopped off a zero from the valuations being tossed around here. But, at 100-150-200-250-300-350K, that's already valuing the first Harley (which, again, isn't really the first Harley) at levels close to/equal to/more than/a f-ton more than other first appearances and other very desirable OA. Maybe one day she will become known to all future generations as the Joker's girlfriend. Still, so what?  The 1st app of Joker's GF in comics (in the JV not-in-continuity for kids Batman title no less) should be worth 6 or even multiple 6 figures? 

Worth a stack of Byrne X-Men pages?  Worth more than the first MJ page, the first Deadpool, the first Elektra, the first Walking Dead. the first TMNT, the first Swamp Thing, even McSpidey 1 (because, y'know, there are a few poll respondents who voted to value this cover in the same league or even higher than these examples)?

I have a hard time believing anybody would be having this conversation before last Thursday, except as a laugh. 

The only thing that I can say is that the cover art of BA12 is more than I can afford.

Also that if given a choice I'd pick it over NM98 both for enjoyment and for long term investment purposes. 

The hammer price if sold today? I am not sure but i would think that it would have to be 6 figures. 

Comic art prices don't always make sense either. How many pages can you buy with Amazing Spider-Man 328 money?

8 hours ago, Pete Marino said:

Others have though, Gene has said that directly, not going to sift through the thread to find it, but he commented about how: few outside the comic hobby know who she is, and that no one in his building would know the character (i'm paraphrasing so if i missed the gist, feel free to correct me)

BA12 cover will command a huge premium if it ever went to auction, is it 125k?  250k?  I have no clue, both numbers are basically the same to my mind, because they're so out of my reality for comic art.  But to say it'll do worse than NYX cover i think is underselling the character in a huge way.  And I feel like a lot of people here don't see how she's permeated more than just the comic book world.

That was my point, unless only comic book fans go out for Halloween.  

If not everyone knows who she is and she is still this popular doesn't that say more about the character? She still has room to grow. So far she was just a supporting character in a superhero movie. Yet some people feel the character is far more likable than characters that have already had their own movie. 

One Batman movie and everyone will know who she is. They will say ohh yeah that is Jokers crazy girlfriend.  Batman is DCs number 1 property. Joker is and will always be Batman's most known and popular enemy. Harley isn't going anywhere.  

8 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

I don't have daughters. I have a good friend who has two daughters, but I'm pretty sure their mother would find Harley too... some adjective or other of your choice... for their current age.

 

Time will tell if she is this massive cultural phenomenon - I personally think not. I think if they made a Harley Quinn movie it has a better than even chance of flopping pretty hard, but this is all entirely speculation on my part.

You are right it could very well be a flop. This is DC we are talking about, 

i suspect we will see her in a Batman film at some point. Less chance of that being a flop. 

9 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Charlie Brown was in TV/movies/books before he appeared in that comic strip that pre-dated Peanuts? 

Yes, he was in the newspapers before he was in a comic book. 

On 5/23/2017 at 4:54 AM, ESeffinga said:

Wondering, have there been many other characters that have jumped INTO the comics from other media, and then gone on to be primarily a comic book character, and then gone on to be really well known? I'm struggling to think of any. I'm sure there have to be some.

If so, would those first appearances trigger any kind of premium in the comics or comic OA, considering their origins?

 

Some characters existed in TV shows , movies and books before becoming comics.  Conan , Tarzan . Star Wars, Charlie Brown , many Disney characters but this is the oldest example that I could think of.

Thor - Altuna Stone 11th Century

Very interesting. I would have thought that the comic strips would have been cheaper back then. 

3 minutes ago, Matches_Malone said:

And DeadPool was nominated for best pic in Golden Globes

Is that the awards show where Spider-man and Deadpool were making out?

4 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Well, obviously nobody is going to be able to break out individual line items like merchandising per character (though I would expect Deadpool to be greater than Harley even there - not that I think merchandising sales tell you much about how much name recognition a character has with the general public).

But, we can compare box office grosses of Deadpool vs. Guardians:

Deadpool Box Office:  Domestic:  $363.1 million  Foreign:  $420.0 million  Worldwide:  $783.1 million

Guardians Box Office:  Domestic:  $333.2 million  Foreign:  $440.2 million  Worldwide:  $773.3 million (0.1 difference is due to rounding)

Guardians 2 looks on track to put up comparable numbers to the first one ($40 million short at the moment).  

Looks like the two franchises are pretty comparable in popularity based on box office grosses.  I guess that must mean that the Hulk #271 cover is now a $150-$250K item too!  

 

 

They were closer in initial box office than I expected but dvd/blu-ray sales aren't as close.

Guardians is at 130m Domestic and Deadpool at 92m

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Guardians-of-the-Galaxy#tab=summary

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Deadpool#tab=summary

Here is Suicide Squad which wasn't nearly as good a film as either of these. 

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Suicide-Squad#tab=summary

As far as the characters go I still stand behind what I said.

37 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I don't know if the Deadpool film has the general public love or not (seems that way from what I've heard from my non-comic friends who saw the film, but that's just anecdotal).  What I mean is that Deadpool has much higher name awareness than Harley Quinn among the general population as a result of the film and all the marketing tied to it.  If you look at it through comic world lenses, you might disagree, since the two characters are arguably of comparable popularity within our sub-culture, but outside of it?  10-year old girls aside, Deadpool is much more of a household name than Harley Quinn in 2017.  Two years ago, that may not have been the case, but now?  No contest! 

The movie was popular and a big surprise hit but not Guardians of the Galaxy popular. Unless someone can provide merchandising numbers for the two characters we will just have to disagree on this one.

10 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Harley may be more popular with 10-year old girls, and she may rival Deadpool for popularity within our little sub-culture, but among the general population?  I don't think it's even close between them, and if you throw in overseas as well, it's going to be a devastating landslide in favor of Deadpool.  The latter headlined a global blockbuster movie and will have far, far greater name recognition on that basis alone than someone who's only major exposure to the non-cartoon/comics crowd will have been a supporting role in an utterly forgettable Suicide Squad film (do you think that most non-comic fans who saw the film can even recall that Will Smith's character's name was Deadshot?  I don't).  

And let me reiterate that I am not a Deadpool fan at all (though I did like the film), don't own any Deadpool comics or art and have no interest in ever acquiring any.  I just think it's that obvious if you look at the situation outside of a comic person's perspective. 

The Deadpool movie was a surprise hit but I don't see the general public love that you refer to. Overseas I have no idea. You could very well be right.

Here in the US, I own a music, movie and video game store.  The public that I see talks sometimes about comics but more so about the movies etc. Yes there was a Deadpool game but it wasn't very good and interest died pretty quickly. With the 8-45 year old crowd that I see there is more awareness and love of Harley than Deadpool. It is not just the 10 year girls. The older perverts like Harley as well.

As for the role in current comics I can not comment as I haven't read current comics in many years.   

Not new but my only Star Wars final.

Star Wars Shadows of the Empire for PC also by Greg Winters.

1 hour ago, delekkerste said:

Glad you asked:

1.  Not even Fish thinks NM #98 is a $250K cover.  Or, at least he didn't the last time I spoke with him.  NOW I'm sure he does after the NYX #3 sale, though!!  

2.  People are delusional if they think Harley Quinn has anywhere near the popularity and name recognition outside of our little sub-culture as Deadpool.  Harley Quinn was a supporting character in a movie which few seemed to think was any good.  Deadpool starred in a movie called Deadpool that grossed huge box office and everyone enjoyed it.  He was even a recent Jeopardy! question!  I really don't think people realize that even many people who watched Suicide Squad or Logan don't remember the supporting cast's names - trust me, I've asked people!!  Does anybody remember the supporting characters from the first two Wolvie films either?  Yeah, didn't think so.  X-23 now is still basically nobody to the general public.  

3.  Rob Liefeld actually CREATED Deadpool.  NM #98 is actually his REAL first appearance.  BA 12 is a later adaption to comics of a character created by someone else for a kiddie cartoon.  A good kiddie cartoon, yes, but a kiddie cartoon nonetheless.  No real depth of artistry, just conforming to the animated series style prescribed by the editor.  It's not intentionally minimalist in an artistic sense; it's minimal in an editorial decision/work-for-hire sense.  

4.  Love him or hate him, Rob Liefeld is actually a name artist who drew some of the best-selling comics of the past 50 years and influenced a generation of comic artists (for better or worse).  Mike Parobeck had a tragically short career drawing mostly in a prescribed style conforming to a look consistent with the animated series.  No contest there.  

BA 12 is a quirky comic that has become valuable, and I'm not saying that's nothing.  But, when we're talking about multiples of Miller DD covers, multiples of BWS Conan covers, 50%+ more than a twice-up Kirby cover, etc. you'd have to say that people are extrapolating based on the NYX #3 and Fish's comment.  Two weeks ago, no one would be arguing $150K or $250K with a straight face.  Many wouldn't have even put TWD #1 or NM #98 (which are far more important books as well as being better covers by more notable artists; I can't believe this even needs to be said - and please note that I have zero love for either Deadpool or NM #98) in those price brackets before the NYX #3 sale.  

I can't speak for others but my feelings aren't based on the NYX 3 or what Fish has said.

Personally I just think as a license that Harley Quinn has far more potential than Deadpool. As for current mainstream popularity I think you might be wrong about that. Perhaps that is because I have a ten year daughter who along with all her friends have Harley Quinn fever. It would be interesting to see Marvel's and DC's merchandising sales for these two characters.

Time will tell. There was a point in time in the 90s when Punisher and Wolverine were neck and neck in terms of popularity.  This was around the time when Lobo (with some of the same traits as Deadpool) was a top license as well.

As for comparison with Kirby covers etc. Sure it sounds nuts in that context but you are talking about 1 specific page vs multiples. You can miss out on a nice Kirby twice up cover and still pick one up next time around.

11 hours ago, delekkerste said:

You're not wrong, but maybe people should actually consider what they're buying. Not the real first appearance of the character. Not by the character's defining artist or her creator.  Not the character's intro to the DC Universe, which explains why the cover is inspired instead by the cartoon and looks like it was created for young children, like those old 70s comics based on Hanna-Barbera cartoons.  I would imagine that the OA to this cover has about as much presence as a wet noodle - nothing really to it, like an animation cel with the color zapped out, just some lines and almost no detail.  Pretty much purely functional with no real artistry at all. 

The artwork may not hold the trophy hunters back from paying up to bag what is perceived to be the cover to a Modern key...but maybe it should? 

 

Not trying to be sarcastic but why should they?

There are many reasons that people feel the need to collect art. Some may collect art for art's sake.  Others see comic art as memorabilia. A historic home run hit baseball doesn't have to look like anything other than a typically baseball. In truth we are all a bit of both. You might see them as collectors who don't appreciate good art at times. Perhaps you are right but perhaps they have a different reason for wanting this material.

I don't think BA12 being from the Batman Adventures universe hurts it. If anything it adds to the history of the character. 

3 hours ago, Mephisto said:

I am not going to read this whole thread but what about Alex Ross' Harley Quinn cover painting vs BA 12. I know BA 12 has over took the Ross book in price. From what I remember for years the Ross book was the bigger of the two due it actually being her first appearance in the true DC universe but the tides have shifted in more recent years.

However, Ross covers already command a premium for modern art and the image of the Harley Cover became a near instant classic image of Joker and Harley.

BA12 would win. No one is buying BA12 at 6 figures for the artwork and the artwork isn't holding it back either. 

Who will bid and how much at a given time is a hard question to answer. 

You bring up an interesting question with WD1 and NM98. Which of the four is a more desirable cover is perhaps a better question. Winning some comic super lottery and given choice of the 4 cover arts personally I'd go with BA12.

BA12 then WD1 then NM98 and finally the comic I had previously never heard of. 

14 hours ago, Bronty said:

This thread could use another pic.   Not last week exactly, but pretty recent addition.    Choosing to share it as people have told me there is a comics connection:   apparently in the Scott Pilgrim comics one of the bands is named Clash at Demonhead, and takes its name from the 1990 Nintendo game, the Clash at Demonhead.  

Here's the published piece and then the OA.    Its one of those, to me at least, delightfully ridiculous pieces that screams the time it was.    A miniskirt, a mullet, a hoverbike, a demon, a tiled mountaintop pathway, a metallic vest, a HORNED ROBED skeleton wizard (!!), and of course, a neon green ray from a space gun.     What more could a guy ask for

Sorry for the krappy pic but taking pictures of 30" pieces with an iphone does tend to lead to poopy results.   

 

 

Nice one Dan. I love to see video game artwork. Anyone else here have some to share?

Here is one I found today digging for a notebook.

Star Wars Chess for PC and Sega CD color rough by Greg Winters.

25 minutes ago, Bird said:

He fixed that for you.

I love his work on Hulk even more than Spidey, but maybe I am being too nostalgic. 

Ohh yeah his work on Hulk was great too. 

3 hours ago, batman_fan said:

I love his work on spiderman

I love his work on Amazing spiderman. 

Anyone recognize either of these 2 images?

Years ago I purchased this piece direct from Frank Cirocco. It is marked "The Cleric's Task" and dated 1981 on the back. 

Bought at the same time and also from Cirocco this one I have no clues on. 

Not a fan of the LOTR piece at any price but I'd love to own one of the Narnia covers. 

If anyone here bought one of the Narnia covers and has second thoughts send me a pm. I'll pay your final price and bit extra for he hassle. 

9 hours ago, Overthetopinc said:

Hard for me to beleive that you read 150 issues of Spawn and had no idea there was the HBO show that aired every week before the Sopronoes. I think you are the one misinformed. Spawn was great from the beginning to 150+. When Todd and Greg did those books it was amazing. There are no story lines like in other comics which makes me think you never even read a Spawn comic. It one continuous battle of Spawn trying to put his life together while fighting Heaven and hell at the same time. 

I only bought and read the first 10 or so issues of Spawn and as you say there was no solid storyline. 

It looks like HBO Spawn was a cartoon? If so that makes more sense. I don't watch cartoons. When you said show I assumed you were talking about a live action tv show. 

Not here to start a fight.  I'm glad that you enjoy your comic and cartoon. They just aren't for me. 

If a live action tv show or movie is ever made I'd be willing to give it a fair shot. 

On May 5, 2017 at 11:05 PM, Overthetopinc said:

When did Spawn get good...Issue#1-150+  Did you ever hear about the HBO show that won an Emmy? That was right from the comics. Obviously some one liked it. 

Come on now just because a comic has 150 issues doesn't mean it has great writing start to finish. Spawn is a big enough of a brand to carry itself. It is the Image flagship title so for better or worse we will continue to see it for some time. 

Now obviously you are a fan but you should try and be a little more objective. When you say 1-150 are when it got good that tells us that if you didn't care for the first 10 issues that the rest won't be any better. This is a book I wanted to like but didn't.  Is there one solid storyline that rises above the rest? 

Not to be sarcastic but no I had no idea that there was a tv show. This is a live action tv show? I had no idea. 

On April 28, 2017 at 11:15 PM, Overthetopinc said:

Why do people only associate Todd's writing with 14 issues of Spider-Man. What about the 200+ issues he wrote of Spawn! That stuff is amazing!!

When did Spawn get good? Read the first issues until around the time that he had guest writters like Neil Gaiman w Angela fill in. Didn't care much for it but like many of us back then in the early 90s I just kept buying them anyway. 

2 hours ago, thethedew said:

For some, that's a response they can't stand to hear.

Well, what do you expect. That is the worst thing you could say!