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Collector/ Dealer relationship

Started by Dale Roberts,

80 posts in this topic

comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
No offense, but but boo friggin' hoo. running a law practice is far more complicated and difficult than being a comic dealer.

 

BULL mess

 

And here's why. There many stupid lawyers that are still practicing. You guys get paid very well for what you do.

But stupid comic dealers can't stay in business very long. (I might be an exception). The margins are too small.

 

 

lol ....oh wait you're serious...... lol lol lol

 

PS...I have run both (lawyer for 10 years....comic show dealer for almost 10 years), and I won't say that being a comic dealer is easy....it is tedious, annoying and difficult....but I would never attempt to compare it to another profession if I did not walk a mile in those shoes.

 

Since you have insight into both please tell me honestly if you can live the same lifestyle and make the same money being a comic dealer as you can as a lawyer. And then let me know if one or the other is truly more demanding mentally, physically or otherwise.

Yes, I am serious. Let's get into a lawyers versus comic dealers debate.

 

I have alot of respect for the people who have chosen both fields. Comic Dealers, for the most part, have taken a passion and turned it into a business that can be pretty crappy most of the time. But at the end of the day it is still their passion and that and not the money is why many have chosen that field. There are easier businesses to make money at if that is the primary goal. I could not imagine hating comics or not having a passion for it and choosing this field anyway.

 

On to answering your questions:

 

You have to be very successful and very well financed to make as much money as comic dealer. But this is a truism of any profession. When you play a profession where the person is paid for their knowledge and expertise against a business owner whose stock and trade is goods. You are comparing goods to services and it makes for a poor comparison.

 

I do know that, done right, you can do VERY well as a comic dealer, but being a goods business with unsure inventory and unsure prices and no way to predict the next market turn with any accuracy I know that it is not for the weak stomached.

In fact Comic Book dealing paid my college and law school tuitions while paying my rent at the same time. And I was just a kid when I started and did only one national show a year (limiting myself to regional and local shows...which used to happen with far greater frequency than they do today.)

 

But this is not a choice people make on a whim. You don't wake up one morning and say "I am a lawyer". 4 years of College, 3 Years of Law School, one or more blindingly difficult Bar Exams (depending on how many states you would like to practice in), increasing registration fees on a yearly basis, and requirements to continue to take classes for "Continuing Legal Education" credits that are required in many states are a small portion of what it takes just to BECOME a lawyer and keep your license active.

 

Comic dealers pretty much need some comics, a show schedule, and some post it notes to get going...there is nothing to stop you. Which is how I started at the age of 17 doing shows. It is a trial by fire for comic dealers. You jump in with both feet and you either sink or swim. The best stay afloat and have done so for decades, but there is no minimum requirement for joining that club. Easy to join, hard to keep it going.

 

I stopped being a dealer about a decade ago. I got my ticket to practice and went to work.

 

You asked which are more difficult jobs:

 

Mentally: Attorney...no question. Your mind is tested constantly. You have to be an advocate, a detective, a poker player, a counsellor and a book worm all at the same time while keeping your clients out of the trouble they seem to love to get into and get the rest out of the trouble they have already gotten themselves into....and we aren't even talking about criminal litigation, for example, where you do this on anywhere from 100 to 400 cases simultaneously.

 

You have not seen mentally difficult until you had to pore through a 900 page discovery response looking for a needle in a haystack or had to combine a dozen precendents to leverage your theory through the courtroom door. And that's just the "work" portion, that's not even the "running the firm" day to day operation of a business portion that comes with being in business.

 

Being a lawyer is all about using your mind, constantly without respite. Mentally, there are few professions more challenging.

 

 

Physically: Comic Dealer hands down....I still remember those years of loading and unloading, setting up and taking down what seems like thousands of long boxes...and after every show it seems like you are leaving with MORE than what you came with. (I still have the basement loaded with stock that I have not liquidated to show for it). All day, all weekend on your feet, dealing with the hygeine-challenged....wears on the body.

 

I gave up show dealing for being a lawyer. It is a more stable income and I am better rewarded for my time and for the sheer time and effort it took to get to this point. But to get to that point you have to work like an animal for about 8 years just to get in the door and it's taken another 10 years to rise near the top of my field.

 

I just don't think it's accurate to say one field is "harder" because the other wears a suit or works in an office. The grass being greener and all. If you think negotiating a price on a book is adversarial try taking on a prosecutor who is dead set to put your client away for 10 years. No contest.

 

And in terms of what Brian said about running a law firm being more complicated than being a comic dealer I can speak from experience that he speaks the truth. I won't bore you with any more minutae but if you had any idea how many small and large details there are to running a law firm. It is all the details of running any business with all the additional requirements placed by Registration and Disciplinary Commissions for professional corporations that make you want to pull your hair out (if it hasn't fallen out on its own).

 

And in terms of what you said about stupid dealers not lasting long in this business. Lawyers have a body set up in each state to remove the license from those "stupid" or irresponsible or dishonest lawyers you talk about...woudn't it be great if they did in the comic field? It took the crash of '92 to get rid of most of those guys...but they seemed to have grown back like a fungus.

 

BTW....anyone wanna buy out my stuff?...back up the truck......

 

Chris

 

 

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
No offense, but but boo friggin' hoo. running a law practice is far more complicated and difficult than being a comic dealer.

 

BULL mess

 

And here's why. There many stupid lawyers that are still practicing. You guys get paid very well for what you do.

But stupid comic dealers can't stay in business very long. (I might be an exception). The margins are too small.

 

 

lol ....oh wait you're serious...... lol lol lol

 

PS...I have run both (lawyer for 10 years....comic show dealer for almost 10 years), and I won't say that being a comic dealer is easy....it is tedious, annoying and difficult....but I would never attempt to compare it to another profession if I did not walk a mile in those shoes.

 

Since you have insight into both please tell me honestly if you can live the same lifestyle and make the same money being a comic dealer as you can as a lawyer. And then let me know if one or the other is truly more demanding mentally, physically or otherwise.

Yes, I am serious. Let's get into a lawyers versus comic dealers debate.

 

I'll give you the physical right off the bat Rich.

 

Most likely, you can't make the lifestyle being a lawyer as a comic dealer but...

 

you have far more freedom -- play golf when you want, move your schedule around as needed, be flexible -- no deadlines, no daily/weekly requirements to have things in on time (except diamond orders for new book dealers), no daily correspondence, letters that need to be written (and not counting the emails, which I will grant you have probably somewhat equal numbers on), and quite honestly, nobody's life is going to be significantly impacted by what the comic dealer does or doesn't do -- it's hobby/business. That's not a disparaging remark. The lawyer, accountant, teacher etc., makes a life impact on the person in their job each day which simply adds to the stress of successful completion of the task they were hired to do. Though comics bring joy to the lives of many (including mine), everyone is going to be fine without them. If I fail to successfully defend my client in a criminal proceeding, they go to jail. The stakes are higher.

 

DA's make a median salary in Philly of around $50k (that's for ones with 5-10 years of experience) -- lawyers at many plaintiffs' firms are not making much more than $70-90k a year (before bonus, so it's eat what you kill). Sure at big firms they are making $140k a year plus, but they are working 90 hour weeks under intense pressure. And that represents a minority of the lawyers out there.

 

Since you don't pay malpractice insurance, are likely not to get sued by your customers, don't provide health insurance for your employees (so your HR worries are far smaller), are not (unless you are Harley Yee) traveling about 1/3 of the year, cannot have your case basically tanked by a judge or a jury (in the case of Plaintiffs' work which I do) where after investing $300k you get ZERO and no big brother who looks over your shoulder (like an ethics board or the state Supreme Court disciplinary board). Managing and providing 401k plans for your employees are also another HR headache. As the managing attorney here in Philadelphia, there are countless of these HR simple managerial tasks that I am faced with every single day in addition to simply running the actual practice and trying to push cases on my docket. In addition, we (as a national firm) have more clients (close to 30 or 40,000) than most stores have customers, and each one of those require personal attention, though I would grant less on a face to face basis than most stores. In addition, there is plenty of ordering office supplies, paying rent, managing overhead -- all of which are responsibility of owning a comic store as well. There's also all the marketing, advertising etc. that effective firms have to be concerned about including figuring how to bring in more business. In fact, I have a marketing consultant group that I've hired, in addition to all the traditional outlets, web based advertising etc. that we are currently are a part of. Additionally there's lead intake management which means that on a daily basis there are literlly dozens of people that require some sort of response from a law firm after an inquiry... since any one of these people might have a high quality case, some response needs to be given to all. I would say there is plenty of strain in running an effective practice.

 

Brian, no offense, but it sounds like the same whining as in the original post.

 

Seriously, I am sure your job is hard. So is mine. I am not going to take the time to counter each point (though I do provide health insurance to my employees, and liability insurance is no different than malpractice insurance). I would just like to say that in the future, be thoughtful about how you compare your profession to mine (or any other small, medium, or large business persons). Lawyers are an important cog in the machinary, just not as important as lawyers seem to think.

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

It isn't whining because you asked for the response and comparative analysis, not just raised sua sponte. I would never have just raised this on my own, because frankly who the f--k cares what I deal with everyday? NOBODY except me. And that was my point. I'm making a very nice living and having a great time. I really don't need to b--ch about all the problems I have. Neither did the guy in the post.

 

I wasn't just comparing your profession to mine -- I was comparing it to a whole host of others. The bottom line is, if you want to ask are lawyers more important than comic book dealers, the answer is yes. If you want to compare teachers to comic book dealers, the answer is teachers. If you want to compare police officers, firefighters, accountants, CEOs, in terms of what they put back into a community, there is not even a shred of doubt. If someone wants to say to me, teachers are more important than lawyers, I can certainly understand that debate and likely would agree. What about soldiers? I think they're just slightly more important and have a more stressful job than comic store owners... yet I rarely see them complaining incessantly about the job they do every day. The problem I had was that it seemed to be complaining and not recognizing that there is a tremendous amount of benefit to what they do for their lifestyle.

 

It's not a question of insulting you - because that isn't my goal. I respect how hard you, Storms, Vinny, Harley, Al Stoltz and a host of others work everyday to make a living. Believe me, I know running a store is no roll in the hay. But if you want me to defend why running a practice is more difficult than a store, I have provided my rationale. And I agree with the things provided by comix4fun as well. I do agree that running a store is the far more difficult thing to being a show dealer. And I do agree that it is a difficult job with real problems to overcome.

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King_of_Batch-migration

King_of_Batch-migration

Posted
Posted

"I could not imagine hating comics or not having a passion for it and choosing this field anyway."

 

The unfortunate price I pay sometimes as a veteran dealer.

 

I'd like to shoot into the stacks with a scatter-gun sometime.

 

Repeatedly. Blast 'em into bits.

 

Exploding into clouds of confetti.

 

(I own no guns, BTW)

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted
"I could not imagine hating comics or not having a passion for it and choosing this field anyway."

 

The unfortunate price I pay sometimes as a veteran dealer.

 

I'd like to shoot into the stacks with my scatter-gun sometime.

 

Repeatedly. Blast 'em into bits.

 

Exploding.

 

Which veteran dealer are you -- someone we would be familiar with?

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
It isn't whining because you asked for the response and comparative analysis, not just raised sua sponte. I would never have just raised this on my own, because frankly who the f--k cares what I deal with everyday? NOBODY except me. And that was my point. I'm making a very nice living and having a great time. I really don't need to b--ch about all the problems I have. Neither did the guy in the post.

 

I wasn't just comparing your profession to mine -- I was comparing it to a whole host of others. The bottom line is, if you want to ask are lawyers more important than comic book dealers, the answer is yes. If you want to compare teachers to comic book dealers, the answer is teachers. If you want to compare police officers, firefighters, accountants, CEOs, in terms of what they put back into a community, there is not even a shred of doubt. If someone wants to say to me, teachers are more important than lawyers, I can certainly understand that debate and likely would agree. What about soldiers? I think they're just slightly more important and have a more stressful job than comic store owners... yet I rarely see them complaining incessantly about the job they do every day. The problem I had was that it seemed to be complaining and not

 

It's not a question of insulting you - because that isn't my goal. I respect how hard you, Storms, Vinny, Harley, Al Stoltz and a host of others work everyday to make a living. Believe me, I know running a store is no roll in the hay. But if you want me to defend why running a practice is more difficult than a store, I have provided my rationale. And I agree with the things provided by comix4fun as well. I do agree that running a store is the far more difficult thing to being a show dealer. And I do agree that it is a difficult job with real problems to overcome.

 

You didn't originally say being a lawyer was more important, what you said was that it was more difficult. BIG difference. I certainly think lawyers have a more important roll in society. Lawyers may even screw up more lives than comic dealers. Lawyers might straighten out more lives than comic dealers as well.

But being a successful lawyer is no more difficult than being successful at anything else, comic dealer included. If you are successful at anything, it is because you have overcome many difficulties and worked hard to excel.

So, while I agree that your profession is more important than mine, you will never convince me that you had to overcome more, or work harder to succeed at it than I did.

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
What a poor attitude... Pity you didn't take the time to read the beginning of the post, instead of just going off about it.

 

This guy sent this e-mail to me, he did not post it on the board to whine. It was his random thoughts about the endeavor he had undertaken.

 

And what is the difference between him " whining" about that, then all of the people that whine on here because someone is charging too much?

 

It is whining. And I did read the beginning of the post, as I did understand it was something sent to you. Nevertheless, it's posted here, and thus whether it was intended to be public, it was made so.

 

Whining about charging too much? Absolutely a problem. Then again, there's lots of data to back up over pricing at times. I think the attitude is generally, people can price how they like, but then I think it's only fair to criticize them how you like as well. It's no different than saying Best Buy way over prices their DVDs compared to the internet.

 

Brian, to be honset with you when I skim read the first post in this thread it read like a parody, tounge in cheek poke at our hobby(from a dealers perspective)

 

To me it read more like a self imposed roast then whining, or complaining. It mentions vans loaded with paper goods rolling into a crevasse, being held at gunpoint during a deal, batmobile fumes and of course all the associated baggage every dealer must go through to turn a buck.

 

But I am not looking at it from a lawyers perspective. I swear you guys(lawyers) seem to take each other to task for just being fellow lawyers.

 

Just my 2c

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
If I pick the dealer's side in this argument can I get discounts?

 

I have a funny feeling you should be asking for a lawyer's

discount the way you can carry on. :baiting:

 

I'll takes me chances and defend myself!!!! :insane:

 

The lawyer that represents himself.........

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

Rich,

 

I doubt you'll ever convince me that being a comic store owner is more difficult -- but at the same time, it's sort of counter productive to continue now that we've established this.

 

I do believe there are things that are simply more difficult than others. For me, for a variety of reasons, being a successful principal/administrator is far more difficult than being a successful lawyer.

 

Just like I would say being a successful comic book store owner is more difficult than being a successful 7-11 operator. While I agree that success is based on hard work, some things are simply more difficult than others to achieve success in. I'd venture to say that being a successful Alaskan ice fisherman is more dangerous and difficult than either of our jobs.

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

A thousand times a day? I wish.

 

First day in ages I've had time to post this much.

 

Don't worry, this is all about my secret desire to be a comic dealer and my innate jealousy. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not.

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Fazybones

Fazybones

Posted
Posted

This has been a very interesting thread and I have even more

respect for comic book dealers than before and a new respect

for lawyers. Being a lawyer sounds very stressful.

 

 

Chris, your post showing both sides of the conversation was

extremely insightful. (thumbs u

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TeddieMercede

TeddieMercede

Posted
Posted
I am a halfass lawyer and a halfass comic dealer....and I wouldn't want to do either as a living.

 

That's why I am going to stay in school til it's time to retire.

 

I think if there is anything to take from this thread this has to be it.

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