What is the most important issue from the year 1980?

[Jamie Coville]

This is all from a foggy memory so take it with a grain of salt.

 

IIRC Steven Grant said within Marvel giving the Punisher his own mini series was very controversial and plenty of folks were strongly against it. He also said Marvel gave it almost no promotion for that same reason. And if Mike Zeck (then a hot artist) didn't want to draw it, the book probably never would have been approved. They put it out to appease him and keep him from going elsewhere.

 

 

[the blob]

against it not because he wasn't a popular character and they didn't think it would sell, but because they didn't want to get involved in controversy with violent characters and what not, particularly during a time when Tipper Gore and Co. were burning heavy metal albums and what not.

[grider67]

Don't get me started on the "PMRC".

[Jeffro.]

against it not because he wasn't a popular character and they didn't think it would sell, but because they didn't want to get involved in controversy with violent characters and what not, particularly during a time when Tipper Gore and Co. were burning heavy metal albums and what not.

 

 

Their meddling probably resulted in even more heavy metal album sales.

[joe_collector]

No, I doubt that, as there was plenty of material similar to it, and Punisher probably waxed more guys in GS Spider-man 4 than the entire mini.

 

I think it had more to do with portraying him as a *hero* and taking the chance of ruining a good anti-villain. Remember, Marvel cared about that stuff back then, as opposed to now, with Sabretooth and Juggernaut fighting evil.

 

against it not because he wasn't a popular character and they didn't think it would sell, but because they didn't want to get involved in controversy with violent characters and what not, particularly during a time when Tipper Gore and Co. were burning heavy metal albums and what not.

[ft88]

I'll mozy on into this conversation and go with Conan #1 a important over and above Green lantern 76.

 

GL 76 was "first" mainstream book to have an adult theme which resulted in a new direction specifically for DC comics. The thing is that Marvel was basically already there although GL 76 was a leapfrog in a mainstream superhero aiming towards adult storylines.

 

Conan on the otherhand pretty much started the whole fantasy theme of the 70's and arguable some of the sci fi movement overall. While there has always been fantasy out there in comic book land prior to the 70's, Conan made fantasy comics its own genre. There were plenty of fantasy magazines but really no comics with the breadth and depth that Conan became and influenced over the years.

 

The mature drug stories did have an influence but after the impact of GL 76-89 and the 3 Spidey issues, it was pretty much done. Themes overall got a bit heavier with more shades of grey but I'm not sure if GL 76 represents the start of all that.

 

By comparing GL 76 to Conan 1 you are comparing the growth of mature themes to fantasy and their importance to Bronze Age books both then and now. Conan 1 wins in a landslide.

[Sal]

GL 76 was "first" mainstream book to have an adult theme which resulted in a new direction specifically for DC comics. The thing is that Marvel was basically already there although GL 76 was a leapfrog in a mainstream superhero aiming towards adult storylines.

 

wow, really? i would argue that GL 76 is a continuation of what DC had been trying to do for a while, starting with the fringe books, and eventually moving to just about every title, with the possible exception of the Superman books.

 

Wonder Woman loses her powers and becomes a women's libber, the Teen Titans are responsible for killing someone and go costume-less for an issue, Tec 394 has the whole "eye for an eye" issue, etc. all of which occurred prior to GL 76

 

DC was putting more "adult" - i would argue "teen" moreso than adult tho - themes in their books since the late 60s

[joe_collector]

DC was putting more "adult" - i would argue "teen" moreso than adult tho - themes in their books since the late 60s

 

(thumbs u

[ft88]

I'm going with more representation than actual specifics. If you asked around the comic community as to which DC comic represents the transition from kiddie comics to teen themes, My guess is it would be this one or GL87 (and therefore by extension GL 76)

 

BTW, I use "mature" instead of "teen", since back then, teen meant Archie, Beatles, and love interest. But yeah mature today usually means soft porn, graphic killings, and lots of swearing.

[brasseye]

I think the current popularity of Wolverine is a result of the first X-Men movie and it really skyrocketed that character's stature because of Hugh Jackman's performance. Before that, I don't remember such a huge following for Wolverine even though there are always collectors speculating on the next big character. If you look at the history, 1974 was the first appearance, then 1982 was the mini, then 1988 was the first ongoing series. Those are fairly large gaps in time so Marvel certainly was not pushing the character too hard, meaning the public certainly was not demanding more at that time.

 

It may seem strange now, to look back and see that there was a time Wolverine wasn't in every book marvel published, and that "he must have not been so popular back then", but that's just not reality. X-Men had been Marvel's #1 book since 1980 or so, and he was the most popular member.

 

My point was that the movie sent the character into the stratosphere, and the character was not as popular before that time. That is true.

[whetteon]

I think the current popularity of Wolverine is a result of the first X-Men movie and it really skyrocketed that character's stature because of Hugh Jackman's performance. Before that, I don't remember such a huge following for Wolverine even though there are always collectors speculating on the next big character. If you look at the history, 1974 was the first appearance, then 1982 was the mini, then 1988 was the first ongoing series. Those are fairly large gaps in time so Marvel certainly was not pushing the character too hard, meaning the public certainly was not demanding more at that time.

 

It may seem strange now, to look back and see that there was a time Wolverine wasn't in every book marvel published, and that "he must have not been so popular back then", but that's just not reality. X-Men had been Marvel's #1 book since 1980 or so, and he was the most popular member.

 

My point was that the movie sent the character into the stratosphere, and the character was not as popular before that time. That is true.

 

I"m coming in late here and I'm sure this point has been argued by other forum members but to say that Wolverine became more popular due to the movie is like saying Spider-Man became big after the Spider-Man movie.

 

Now maybe Hugh's performance was spot on and maybe you mean the younger generation (12-21 crowd) became more interested but the fact remains that an X-Men movie without Wolverine would NOT have been tolerated by the comic community. Not the other way around.

[bigfiver69]

I'm a little out of my area code, but I'll throw out my two cents...

 

I was a toddler when both books came out, so I'm looking at the whole Conan #1 vs. GL/GA #76 argument through the rear view mirror. What's at issue, I think, is how both books were received in the industry, and their short and long term influence. Let's leave value out of it.

 

I love both books. They're just great comics. And no doubt, there seems to have been an enormous appetite for Conan #1 when it came out. It was heavily collected, and yes, even hoarded. Let's keep in mind, though, that the Marvel Hype Machine was working at full tilt boosting this comic. Marvel had just come off a long, storied decade of being king of the heap. And Conan #1 was part of Marvel's plans for the 1970s. And it was a huge success.

 

GL/GA was a different sort of book, and enjoyed a different and deeper kind of success. It was not hyped, but it became a hugely important and collected book. It was one of a small handful of books that ushered in the glory days of DC bronze, and indeed (along with some other book, including some important Marvel hero books) the modern era of comics. It put a final stake in the heart of the Silver Age. Adams and O'Neil were invited to discuss the GL/GA stories in university classes. It was featured, along with other comics, as part of a 'New Wave' in the New York Times Magazine.

 

Looking at from this perspective, I think GL/GA #76 left a bigger dent in the popular culture of the time.

 

Shep

 

PS... sorry I was late to the party.... didn't mean to reopen and old wound. And as for most important book of 1980, it was X-Men 137

 

[joe_collector]

I disagree totally, and one major reason is that while DC attempted simply to reflect the times, Marvel tried to set the trends.

 

Look at Conan, a violent anti-hero with fantasy and supernatural/horror elements? Unheard of for 1970, and predating the early-70's anti-hero movement popularized by Dirty Harry, Travis Bickle, Michael Corleone, etc. All of DC's anti-heroes came after that big wave, while Marvel's initial foray preceded it.

 

Also important is how truly different Conan was compared to the 1960's Marvel Boy Scouts. It represented a serious departure for Marvel, and a truly new direction in the company. Instead of lily-white, goody-two-shoes heroes, Conan paved the way for a more gray heroic type, like Wolverine, Punisher, Deathlok, Ghost Rider, Luke Cage, Son of Satan, etc.

 

I like GL/GA 76, but it really had no longterm effect on comics, and the more DC books I read, the more I realize that this "societal issues" trend actually started in the late-60's and GL/GA 76 was the culmination of that movement, and NOT the beginning. It started nothing, and unfortunately, led nowhere.

[bigfiver69]

JC, that's very interesting perspective that I hadn't considered. Seeing Conan as a pre-cursor to later Marvel anti-heroes is an intriguing notion. (thumbs u

 

I came out of the womb a DC guy, but it's interesting that the only Marvel book I regularly collected as a kid was Conan. Between the comic version and the Savage Sword magazines, I blew a lot of hours on those books. I LOVED them. And seeing the movie was a definite '80s highpoint.

 

Shep

 

 

[Zonker]

JC & I agree on this point-- Conan was ultimately a huge commercial success and widely imitated at both Marvel and DC. In contrast, the O'Neil - Adams GL/GA got cancelled. I'm of the personal opinion that it was (briefly) very influential among comics creators of the day, as the early 1970s was the time of the first generation of fandom suddenly being given the keys to the kingdom (especially with Roy Thomas at Marvel), and creators were trying to one-up each other. But whether you agree with this perspective or not, it doesn't really matter, because at any rate by 1975, it was as if GL/GA had never happened.

 

The only nit I would have to pick with JC is the part about the Marvel Conan being a ground-breaking anti-hero in pop culture of the time. Deciding to do a faithful REH adaptation within a Marvel four-color comic took some guts by Thomas, but once that decision was made, he was just channelling/adapting the already-established REH world-view. And Conan had been widely reprinted in paperback during the 1960s, so that world-view was already "out there" among Marvel's target audience of the time.

[joe_collector]

Deciding to do a faithful REH adaptation within a Marvel four-color comic took some guts by Thomas, but once that decision was made, he was just channelling/adapting the already-established REH world-view.

 

I realize that, but reading about sword-and-sorcery mayhem in the text is far different than showing it in a full-color panel, with a CCA seal on it no less. Conan was a significant departure for mainstream comics, and as you alluded to, it took serious guts to pull off.

 

Conan may not have been a *new* literary property, but it was definitely a big change for comics books, and in my opinion, was the harbinger for the Bronze Age.