AMS 80's-90's decades issues going up...

[Kermit]

To everyone

 

I've noticed in the past few months a constant increasing/hunt (hard one) for almost every AMS comic in the late 70's until the end of 80's...

 

Issues between 150 and 200 are taking the place of the "no key comics" bronze age below nº150.

Some time ago the majority of this issues in NM could be get at 5$ or less, right now a Fine cooie goes for more than that,.

 

More interesting, the issues between nº200 and 300 (putting aside nº238,239,252,298-300) are getting harder to get below the 5$ target.

 

Heck, even the 300-441 runs are getting hotter, i've also remarked that complete runs ex:300-400 or simply 400-441, go for some interesting prices.

 

Are in your poit of view a constant and solid increasing value price on this title? Because 5 years ago, between nº100 and 441 you would only had an ahrd time with the key issues, the rest you would end up getting at reasonable low prices...

 

Do you fellas think that the Uncanny X. are also going by that road?! Having an instatt sucess on X2 doesn't hurt, and regarding the waiting/fever for the X3...i guess these are also getting hotter, no?

 

Regards, Pedro.

[blowout]

I think you will find that the general concensus is that high print run and well looked after 80's and 90's books from titles like ASM and X-Men are not likely to achive any great long term price increases.

[ninanina]

I think you will find that the general concensus is that high print run and well looked after 80's and 90's books from titles like ASM and X-Men are not likely to achive any great long term price increases.

 

The only thing that might help them is the fact that not everyone looked after them to such a degree to keep them in 9.4's and up. So, over the long term I feel the NM's will have increases while the lower grades (perhaps the 9.0's down) will go up only marginally.

[Aman619]

it was widekly believed that 70s comics were:

• bought in high multiples by speculators

• saved meticulously by collectors, and

• would never be worth anything.

 

As we now know, all it takes is time.....

[joe_collector]

it was widekly believed that 70s comics were:

• bought in high multiples by speculators

• saved meticulously by collectors, and

• would never be worth anything.

 

As we now know, all it takes is time.....

 

Different era, different demographics, different relative pricing. Old-time collectors said 70's books were worthless because they had tunnel-vision and even in up to the late-80's, the vast majority of Silver Age comics were dirt cheap.

 

Up til 1987 or so, these guys were selling FF 48 for $10-$15 NM, CA 100 for $5, and ASM 50 for $10, so of course some whacky 70's books would look like a bad deal by comparison.

 

The world has changed signicantly since then, and I'd compare most 80's books to 70's comics like John Carter, Battlestar Galactica or Tarzan, and likely will never be worth any real money. Anything past 1990 or so is bird cage filler.

[Kevin Boyd]

Cage-filler story-wise maybe.

 

But when it comes to supply and demand, most store-owners I've talked to in the greater Toronto area can't restock Spideys above issue 400, or for that matter, Volume 2 #1-36.

 

They have similar problems restocking the last two years of Daredevil before it was cancelled and the first year of the reboot. Ditto for the final couple of years of Avengers, FF, Thor, Captain America, et al. before their reboots. Very few people were collecting those books at the time (because they sucked) and there aren't very many that turn up in collections.

 

The print runs on those books were significantly lower than their current counterparts, and as a result, completist collectors are having problems completing the runs of certain Marvel titles.

 

And if books can't be restocked, and there is significant interest, then the prices will go up, as they are.

 

Kev

 

 

[Aman619]

JC, I forget my forum census figures, but from your answer Im guessing you are under 35? What I was referring to in my post as to 70s books being considered worthless forever was in the generational sense. As a Silver Age kid, I was out of college in th e70s, so th ecurrent books I was still buying were new trash. Totally inferior retreads (to my mind ) after years and years of reading, including the entire SA "Marvel Age of Comics." I was even anticipating future trends by actually buying extra copies of #1s and important issues. And, condition wise, my collection was getting nicer and nicer with the addition of these spanking new glossy (common) books.

 

So, again, my point is, then, as today, the books we buy are common, plentiful, usually bad and crappy. As Always. In time, assuming there will still be collectors wanting them (always debatable) these too will attain a higher state of collectibility as todays readers and their spawn seek them out for whatever reasons thsy see fit.

 

Also, the relative scarcity of late 90s books (due to their almost universally loathed status when they came out) will be an asset at that point. If people right here on these boards are now saying 70s books are "scarce" in higher grades, these books wil be even tougher.

 

One more thing.....people forget the effect of inflation on prices over the years. $10 was a lot more money then for a comic than it is now. At cover prices from $.10 to $.60, TEN DOLLARS ia a heft appreciation!! To give you an idea how cheap books were then, in 1980, I bought 100 mylars at a show to protect my best stuff. I bought the new Guide and went through my entire Silver Age collection (not by any means complete, but pretty solid especially in Marvel having half the titles from #1 up.) I mylared anything over $10. I dont remember exactly, but I had enough mylars left over to protect my Neal Adams books. (Not worth much then, but great comics WORTHY of protection, if not future increased values.)

 

And there was nothing from the 70s worth mylaring. Heck, that was STILL true until the 90s Ghost Rider series jumpstarted the heat on the 70s appearances of Marvel heroes revamped for the 90s.

 

You are saying "not this time. Its all different now." I dont agree.

[joe_collector]

So, again, my point is, then, as today, the books we buy are common, plentiful, usually bad and crappy. As Always. In time, assuming there will still be collectors wanting them (always debatable) these too will attain a higher state of collectibility as todays readers and their spawn seek them out for whatever reasons thsy see fit.

 

But that's my point. You can't just meld all of the eras into one single trend, as buying trends and demographics have changed radically from the 70's to now. Kids stopped being a major force in new comics sales by the mid-80's and by the 90's, insane cover prices had chased the rest away.

 

Or to look at it by era, I'll use an online price guide for examples (OS ain't handy) to demonstrate the relative values issue:

 

X-Men #1: $11K

 

X-Men 94: $950

 

These are basic raw prices (the CGC 9.6-9.8 favors older comics even more) but it shows the most important X-Men issues in the Silver and Bronze eras differ greatly in price. Supply/demand/scarcity/etc. all contribute, but on an overall scale, the Silver outpaces the Bronze by over 10X valuation.

 

I just see the same thing happening with Moderns, and due to less kids buying as the 80's progressed, and from 1991-today, the market is basically adult-only, it's tough to see these books appreciating by anything approaching Bronze standards.

[Kermit]

Thanks to everyone for the input.

 

It's interesting as that AMS vol.1 is now being hunted down with some constante prices that go by the guide and up.

 

I also saw some months ago that wizard as double and sometimes tripled the Uncanny X. prices (specially between nº143-300, that were freezed for a long time) and i tought that no one would start buying those comics at that prices (for ex: nº144-200 are marked around 15 to 20$).

Some weeks ago i saw that some stores around here re-marked these comics prices, and this week while i looked at the backissues bins, i saw that at least 40% of the comics are disappearing at plain sight.

 

Can this lead to a decent increase of the UXM nº144 and up?

 

I mean do you ever tought that, apart AMS, you almost don't have any "decent" high prices coll. on the major marvel titles characters ex: Avengers and FF above nº100 aren't expensive, Hulk coll. (apart nº180-182) you can have them in a long term period at reasonable prices, DD apart the first few issues and the Miller run, all is very low value, Thor the same thing, etc..i'm refering to VF/NM, copies of course, not CGC wanabees 9.8,.

 

Why do you think this happens and tends to continue this way?

 

Regards, Pedro.

[THE_BEYONDER]

ASM= Amazing Spider-Man

 

AMS=

[Kermit]

Bullseye...how did you managed to guess that?!

 

[Aman619]

we're looking at the same data, but drawing different conclusions. Why shouldnt XMen #1 be 10 times the value of XMen #94? And if you infer from that that the most a current/Modern book will reach will be one tenth of a Bronze key, fine. So be it. Makes sense. I cant see ANY modern book reaching the values of scarcer and much older BA and SA books. But they will move up as will the BA and SA prices

 

Remember, XMen 94 not too long ago was $100.

And XMen #1 was only a $1000 book for a long time in the 80s. Now, both eras' prices have gone up dramatically. My point is still that, in time, so will the modern books as they become a generation older than current stuff.

 

Unless you are really arguing, as some do, that the whole game is nearly over. And that we will never reach that time in this hobby when the current books are sought after as back issues by the next wave of collectors to come? I dont agre with that. I say we have a few cycles left before comics as a medium are totally marginalized out of existence.

[joe_collector]

Unless you are really arguing, as some do, that the whole game is nearly over. And that we will never reach that time in this hobby when the current books are sought after as back issues by the next wave of collectors to come? I dont agre with that. I say we have a few cycles left before comics as a medium are totally marginalized out of existence.

 

I agree to a point, but I draw a line in a sand at the Spider-man 1/X-Men 1/X-Force 1 timeline, as that was the point where I noticed (the few) kids that frequented stores, taking off for good.

 

I think certain books like Thor 337, Secret Wars (first series), ASM 300, New Mutants 87, X-Men 266, definitely have some more upward potential, but that's where it ends and the old fogies take over. Once that happened, the nostlagia and attrition factors become non-existant.

[dam60]

I agree to a point, but I draw a line in a sand at the Spider-man 1/X-Men 1/X-Force 1 timeline, as that was the point where I noticed (the few) kids that frequented stores, taking off for good.

 

I think certain books like Thor 337, Secret Wars (first series), ASM 300, New Mutants 87, X-Men 266, definitely have some more upward potential, but that's where it ends and the old fogies take over. Once that happened, the nostlagia and attrition factors become non-existant.

 

JC - you're a little bit too early - your trilogy of 3mm plus print run books wasn't the end. To quote my comic shop owner "if I can put a day on when the tide turned and I didn't make money hand over fist, it would be the day that the white bagged return of Superman came out. I still have a few cases of that upstairs"

 

As a 24 year old, me and my friends got WAY pumped by the "trilogy" but then by the time Supes came back, or the time of "Maximum Carnage" or the Valiant "Omega Cross Over" (pardon me if I get the title wrong) the numbers had dwindled substantially. Anyone that was still left was gone by the time of the ASM Clone Saga's completion (at least of my friends who had any interest in comics).

 

DAM

[valiantman]

I cant see ANY modern book reaching the values of scarcer and much older BA and SA books.

That's a bit harsh... I'll assume you're talking about ASM,

since TMNT #1 can easily beat a lot of BA and SA titles.

But even ASM 300 goes for more than non-key ASM's in the 110 to 200 range.

[joe_collector]

I cant see ANY modern book reaching the values of scarcer and much older BA and SA books.

That's a bit harsh... I'll assume you're talking about ASM,

since TMNT #1 can easily beat a lot of BA and SA titles.

But even ASM 300 goes for more than non-key ASM's in the 110 to 200 range.

 

He's talking Key vs. Key. As in ASM 14 vs. ASM 129 vs. ASM 300. Relative per era. TMNT really doesn't have a comparison to the Silver or Bronze.