Are comics in their infancy compared to Coins, Stamps, and Baseball Cards?

[G.A.tor]

I guess my question is, who are all these "investors" ?...all we gernally see on the boards are folks that love comics...even the "big" guns (Verzyl, Geppi, Anderson, Roberts, etc, etc) are generally not out there flipping books of any substance (note I said "generally")...sure folks buy and sell comics, but that is what any "market" is about ....exchaning one commodity (cash) for another commodity (comics) that the buyer and seller agree upon, at a price that is acceptable to both ...

 

folks point to the encapsulation of comics as an end...huh?...most any "key" or valuable book can be safely read in reprint...sure, a 9.6 allentown tec 27 is one hell of a value or dare I say "investment"...but I sure would feel safer with it in a slab, than in a mylar where it could risk damage, and loose value...

 

I guess what I am saying is I don't see it (a crash)...I see a continuing growth, I see some pricing fluctuations, and I see a wonderful hobby getting even better

gator

[The Black Hand ®]

I think there's a better chance of slab damage than damage in a mylar, I also see a lot of people who just collect slabs. I've never damage a comic on a mylar, but I've had two slabs come to me with corner damage form shifting in it's slab during shipping.

[G.A.tor]

I think there's a better chance of slab damage than damage in a mylar, I also see a lot of people who just collect slabs. I've never damage a comic on a mylar, but I've had two slabs come to me with corner damage form shifting in it's slab during shipping.

interesting...I generally only buy raw, so I can read the comics, then I send to cgc for the resto check and slabbing...I have never had one arrive with any interior damage from the slab (but I have only slabbed about 400 of them, so that is a very small sample)

rick

[G.A.tor]

also, folks that know me, know that I have established my collecting criteria around the premise that at no time, do I feel that the amount of $'s I have paid for comics, should exceed 10% of my "net" worth...why, because that amount I am comfortable with, should comics become "worthless"...now, realistically, do I think that will ever happen?=no, but, I do hedge myself against that possible position...

 

while I don't "invest" in comics, I would be naive if I didn't acknowledge that I have an "investment" in my comics...I have not only money in them, but my time, the search, the enjoyment of procurement, the enjoyment of the aesthetic realization I get when I take a gander at them, entertainment value, experience of sharing them with my family, and especially the time I spend with my son reading them etc, etc...

 

but, if everyone collected as I do, then there would be no monetary "risk", and there could be no crash, as we would view our comics as they should be viewed, as "treasures" for us to enjoy, with no financial reprocussions...

gator

[The Black Hand ®]

I think there's a better chance of slab damage than damage in a mylar, I also see a lot of people who just collect slabs. I've never damage a comic on a mylar, but I've had two slabs come to me with corner damage form shifting in it's slab during shipping.

interesting...I generally only buy raw, so I can read the comics, then I send to cgc for the resto check and slabbing...I have never had one arrive with any interior damage from the slab (but I have only slabbed about 400 of them, so that is a very small sample)

rick

 

There have been a few threads on shaken slab syndrome and many scans with examples of high grade, even pedigrees with slab damage.

[MrBedrock]

Only if the money is more important to you than the comics you are getting in exchange.

 

Of course, but I have heard mentioned on here many times, that every collector involved in the high-grade, big-$$$ comic book market is concerned with resale value.

 

Or do you disagree, and think that no one would care if their collections were worth pennies on the dollar in a few years?

 

I am going to say this, and I mean it sincerely...I HOPE THERE IS A CRASH!

As a collector, I still have a ton of books that I want to own.

As a dealer, I will still be able to make a living whether comics are worth $5 or $5,000,000. My retail business is the engine that drives the car and that will always be viable. Back issues, vintage material, and investment type books can always be bought and sold at a margin, whether it is high or low. There will always be a market for them whether they are worth a ton or a little. For example, everyone "knows" westerns are a "dead market" right?

Well if they are priced right, they will sell all day long. Same with everything.

 

So bring on the crash....There are some comics I want to buy!

[G.A.tor]

Only if the money is more important to you than the comics you are getting in exchange.

 

Of course, but I have heard mentioned on here many times, that every collector involved in the high-grade, big-$$$ comic book market is concerned with resale value.

 

Or do you disagree, and think that no one would care if their collections were worth pennies on the dollar in a few years?

 

I am going to say this, and I mean it sincerely...I HOPE THERE IS A CRASH!

As a collector, I still have a ton of books that I want to own.

As a dealer, I will still be able to make a living whether comics are worth $5 or $5,000,000. My retail business is the engine that drives the car and that will always be viable. Back issues, vintage material, and investment type books can always be bought and sold at a margin, whether it is high or low. There will always be a market for them whether they are worth a ton or a little. For example, everyone "knows" westerns are a "dead market" right?

Well if they are priced right, they will sell all day long. Same with everything.

 

So bring on the crash....There are some comics I want to buy!

sorry Richard...there is no crash coming

gator

[whomerjay]

However, it is a two-tiered market where deep-pocketed 40 and 50-somethings throw a lot of money at the high end and everything else sells for prices that look cheap compared to a lot of comic book and OA prices I see nowadays. I wouldn't doubt that our hobby could evolve in a similar fashion - thoughts?

 

Absolutely. It's moving that way now and soon most modern/CA and a good # of BA HG slabs will join the second tier.

[UnrulyAppendage]

This debate has been going on as long as this forum has been around. The particular problem with this argument is that the JC and Delek's only have to prove their argument once where the more upbeat posters have to prove the market isn't crashing year after year after nauseating year.

 

And the ones who don't think there is a crash don't respond to the basic premise the crashers pose: THERE ISN'T NEW COLLECTORS COMING IN TO REPLACE OLD ONES.

 

I admire how upbeat those who don't think a crash isn't coming, but there isn't enough new collectors coming in to keep an even equilibrium. Movies and cartoons don't bring in new readerships. The DEMAND part of the equation is not increasing. Keys and HG will always get premium, but you will see a decrease in the demand for those as well because the there will be less collectors going after them.

 

The crash will probably not happen for 20-30 years because the bulk of collectors, in the age group 30-50, are still active in the hobby. So far, from the upbeat posters, the scenarios are based on rising prices now and what happened in the past. Well, the DEMAND is not being replaced with new collectors. You have to HOPE they get replaced for comic collecting to continue with higher prices.

[joe_collector]

sorry Richard...there is no crash coming

 

Agreed, it'll just be a slow erosion of prices as greybeards die off and the demand side shrinks.

[Mr. Zipper]

And the ones who don't think there is a crash don't respond to the basic premise the crashers pose: THERE ISN'T NEW COLLECTORS COMING IN TO REPLACE OLD ONES.

 

Not true. CapFreek is a high school kid who likes Silver Age comics.

 

Won't that be enough?

 

 

[MrBedrock]

This debate has been going on as long as this forum has been around. The particular problem with this argument is that the JC and Delek's only have to prove their argument once where the more upbeat posters have to prove the market isn't crashing year after year after nauseating year.

 

And the ones who don't think there is a crash don't respond to the basic premise the crashers pose: THERE ISN'T NEW COLLECTORS COMING IN TO REPLACE OLD ONES.

 

I admire how upbeat those who don't think a crash isn't coming, but there isn't enough new collectors coming in to keep an even equilibrium. Movies and cartoons don't bring in new readerships. The DEMAND part of the equation is not increasing. Keys and HG will always get premium, but you will see a decrease in the demand for those as well because the there will be less collectors going after them.

 

The crash will probably not happen for 20-30 years because the bulk of collectors, in the age group 30-50, are still active in the hobby. So far, from the upbeat posters, the scenarios are based on rising prices now and what happened in the past. Well, the DEMAND is not being replaced with new collectors. You have to HOPE they get replaced for comic collecting to continue with higher prices.

 

How do you explain the incredible growth in Heritage's registered comic bidder list over the last four years? How do you explain the tremendous increase in overall new issue sales through retail comic outlets over the last three years? How do you explain the tremendous growth in attendance for Comic-Con over the last three years? What needs to be done to convince you that new people are entering our hobby, enjoying it, and staying?

And, on a purely anecdotal level, I am constantly told that these boards are a valid representation of the hobby as a whole. Sure seems like a ton of you are young and new collectors.

[Mr. Zipper]

sorry Richard...there is no crash coming

 

Agreed, it'll just be a slow erosion of prices as greybeards die off and the demand side shrinks.

 

Or, you could have a handful of BSDs buying the same books from each other in unverified "cash/trade" deals to create an appearance of never-ending demand and price increases.

[joe_collector]

Q: How do you explain the incredible growth in Heritage's registered comic bidder list over the last four years?

 

A: Speculators

 

Q: How do you explain the tremendous increase in overall new issue sales through retail comic outlets over the last three years?

 

Tremendous? We've covered this many times, and some titles are selling in fewer numbers, but the variants, weekly/event books and higher cover prices are draining MORE money from the SAME customer base.

 

Q: How do you explain the trmendous growth in attendance for Comic-Con over the last three years?

 

A: Movies, DVDs, toys, anime, manga, porn - take your pick.

[joe_collector]

sorry Richard...there is no crash coming

 

Agreed, it'll just be a slow erosion of prices as greybeards die off and the demand side shrinks.

 

Or, you could have a handful of BSDs buying the same books from each other in unverified "cash/trade" deals to create an appearance of never-ending demand and price increases.

 

Yeah, that too.

[joe_collector]

You know, I should really quiet down, as I have TONS of unwanted, dupe and otherwise ready-for-the-chopping-block comics, and I'd like to beat the rush to sell.

[Anfield Fox]

You know, I should really quiet down, as I have TONS of unwanted, dupe and otherwise ready-for-the-chopping-block comics, and I'd like to beat the rush to sell.

 

You keep saying that but i've never seen you sell anything

[joe_collector]

You know, I should really quiet down, as I have TONS of unwanted, dupe and otherwise ready-for-the-chopping-block comics, and I'd like to beat the rush to sell.

 

You keep saying that but i've never seen you sell anything

 

I do sell rarely, and mostly CGC books I've picked up for a song and no longer need. I'm talking about my hordes of RAW BA books.

[Mr. Zipper]

How do you explain the incredible growth in Heritage's registered comic bidder list over the last four years? How do you explain the tremendous increase in overall new issue sales through retail comic outlets over the last three years? How do you explain the tremendous growth in attendance for Comic-Con over the last three years?

 

None of these necessarily indicate new or young collectors. It could simply be as more established collectors go online with cheaper Internet service, they sign up at Heritage. I signed up to Heritage to see the big scans, yet I haven't bought a comic from them in over 3 years. Maybe they are selling more new comics to 35 year olds? When I drop by my LCS, it's a bunch of 30 and 40 year olds hanging out to get away from the wife and kids for an hour or so... not a high school kid in sight.

 

And, on a purely anecdotal level, I am constantly told that these boards are a valid representation of the hobby as a whole. Sure seems like a ton of you are young and new collectors.

 

To the best of my knowledge, only 3 people here close to 20: MK, KOR and CapFreek. Looking at the forum photos, I see a lot more gray and bald heads than not!

[UnrulyAppendage]

And the ones who don't think there is a crash don't respond to the basic premise the crashers pose: THERE ISN'T NEW COLLECTORS COMING IN TO REPLACE OLD ONES.

 

Not true. CapFreek is a high school kid who likes Silver Age comics.

 

Won't that be enough?

 

 

 

Note I said to replace the old ones to keep even the current rate going. There has to be several more CapFreeks to replace the collectors we have now, and much, much more to have a positive growth.