OT - Where's the Thread Crucifying MK

[arexcrooke]

Really? You Yankee fans have been bragging since I was in elementary

But thats ok because we have actually won something since you were in elementary school

How long have you been a Yankees fan? Post 96... of course

Nov 2 1976.

Day I was born

[MutantKeys]

Really? You Yankee fans have been bragging since I was in elementary

But thats ok because we have actually won something since you were in elementary school

How long have you been a Yankees fan? Post 96... of course

Nov 2 1976.

Day I was born

You are in the minority but I'll give you that

[topofthetotem]

Jeez have a shred of pride, just admit your teams sucks take your ribbing and hope for better results next year.

 

[carcrawfordfan]

I find it hilarious that the Yanks fans constantly rip the Mets for being . I am not sure if you are aware of this, but the Yankees once again top baseball with a $195 million payroll. The Mets are merely 3rd with only $117 million spent. Imagine if the Mets had another $78 million to spend this year and what they could have accomplished.

 

As you demonstrated with the Tribe, payroll doesn't guarantee anything.

 

That said, should Steinbrenner NOT spend money to field a winning team just because other owners prefer to line their personal pockets instead of putting the revenue out on the field?

 

Mets are in the same media market and the same geographic/demographic fan base as the Yankees. They charge just as much for tickets and the merchandising is comparable.

 

The question is: WHY aren't they spending more if payroll is the magical key to success?

 

In my opinion, the Yanks do overpay for some players. Clemens, Kevin Brown, Mussina for example. AROD returns every penny plus 10 for what he costs.

 

Would the Indians do the same if they had the dough, or would the owner just line his own pockets?

 

Further, and just a note - the vast majority of ARod's salary is paid for by Texas.

 

Yankees starting lineup:

 

C: Posada: farm prospect

1B: Giambi: free agent, overpaid

2B: Cano: farm prospect

SS: Jeter: farm prospect - sure, he's paid a fortune, but he was a Yankee draft pick.

3B: ARod: acquired by trade for Alfonso Soriano, who the Yankees signed as a minor league free agent, plus Texas is paying the majority of his salary

LF: Abreu: acquired by trade when the Phillies dumped

CF: Damon free agent, overpaid

RF: Matsui - signed as a free agent, now 4@$52, which is reasonable.

 

I see you didn't add the Starting rotation/bullpen in here (for which they pay pretty handsomely). I am well aware of how the Yankees obtained players, but when you can pay more to retain your own free agents it is really an added bonus. I fully understand the economics of baseball and am not here to complain about that. I just find it really funny that the Yankees can sit on top of the soapbox and make fun of any other team. It is what it is, but it isn't exactly an even playing field. Do the Mets have the YES network and the income from it ?? Do the Mets have merchandise sales as high as the Yankees?? Do AROD (27M), Jeter (21M), and Giambi (23M) combined make $10M more than the whole Indians team?? I also used the Yankees April payroll which doesn't even include Clemens $18.7M . That would bump it up to about $214M which is a full $100M more than the Mets and at least double every single other team in baseball. The exceptions being the Red Sox. What if the Indians could have retained Jim Thome and Manny Ramirez a few years ago?? What if the Twins didn't have to lose Morneau, Torii Hunter, Johan Santana or some combination of them? I just don't feel like Yankees fans have any room to complain about any other team and how it is run when they have so many advantages over everyone else. Just my 2 cents.

[nik]

You really cannot use payroll as an excuse for any team doing well. At the present time there is no salary cap in baseball, so the playing field is even for everyone in that aspect. The reason teams like NY have a big payroll is because they have a huge fan base/followers. Here in Boston, Fenway Park has sold out every game for the last 6+ years. If they had a bigger ballpark/more seating, it still would sell out.

 

The teams that do not have a big payroll usually are the teams that have very little fans in their stadiums.

[squidmo2000]

Being a Met fan,there is no way to defend the monumental meltdown that unfolded.I'm grateful in a way,because they weren't going far in the playoffs with that monstrosity of a bullpen anyway.Hats off to the Phillies,who played great down the stretch.I guess Jimmy Rollins was right,when he said before the season that they were the team to beat.Oh,and they should fire Willie too,for doing a great impression of the Captain of the Titanic,walking around the deck like everythings fine,and the ship could never sink....

 

 

[1Cool]

Why does every other major sport have a salary cap and not baseball? It only makes sense to not have a few really good teams and a bunch of ok/bad ones.

[Pirate]

If Torre retires after winning the world series this year, it would be great to see Willie as Mattingly's bench coach.

[TheWatcher]

Its all good... at least I will remain a hardcore fan of my team despite a collapse unlike most of the fans of the team across town, who mostly jump on the bandwagon and probably cannot even name 10 players on the team they root for

 

Good for you! Don't abandon ship now! Could be worse, you could be a Cubs fan like me. I've got another couple of weeks of punishment coming because we made the postseason. Note to Cubs fans: If a foul ball is heading your way, but a Cubs fielder has a play on it...GET THE HELL OUT OF HIS WAY!!!

 

 

They're so bipolar this year. One day they look like world beaters, the next day they can't hit the ball Let's see which team shows up for the playoffs.

 

 

 

Angelo

 

Lifelong Cubs fan

[FlyingDonut]

What the Yankees can do is make mistakes - Carl Pavano anyone? That being said, teams that person_without_enough_empathy and moan about not being able to spend money should just shut up. Carl Pohlhad is one of the 400 most weathy people in America. Spend some money. The owners of the Kansas City Royals are also in that top 400 list. The Cleveland Indians are a money-making machine.

 

Further, to compare the teams on salaries is, essentially, irrelevant. You need to compare teams within divisions, as that's all that matters. You want to see ineptitude, look at the Orioles and the White Sox. These are all opening day numbers, and have, of course, changed significantly, but this is a good starting point.

 

AL East

New York Yankees $ 189,639,045 (note that $20 million of this is paid by Texas)

Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214

Toronto Blue Jays $ 81,942,800

Baltimore Orioles $ 93,554,808

Tampa Bay Devil Rays $ 24,123,500

 

AL Central

Cleveland Indians $ 61,673,267

Detroit Tigers $ 95,180,369

Minnesota Twins $ 71,439,500

Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833

Kansas City Royals $ 67,116,500

 

AL West

Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333

Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833

Oakland Athletics $ 79,366,940

Texas Rangers $ 68,318,675 (add the $20 million paid to ARod)

 

NL East

Philadelphia Phillies $ 89,428,213

New York Mets $ 115,231,663

Atlanta Braves $ 87,290,833

Washington Nationals $ 37,347,500

Florida Marlins $ 30,507,000

 

NL Central

Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332

Milwaukee Brewers $ 70,986,500

St. Louis Cardinals $ 90,286,823

Cincinnati Reds $ 68,904,980

Houston Astros $ 87,759,000

Pittsburgh Pirates $ 38,537,833

 

NL West

Arizona Diamondbacks $ 52,067,546

Colorado Rockies $ 54,424,000

San Diego Padres $ 58,110,567

Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524

San Francisco Giants $ 90,219,056

 

Do the Yankees have a massive payroll? Yes, but so do their division rival Red Sox. The team that's a joke in the American League is Tampa Bay, who receives nearly $40 million per year in revenue sharing - of which the majority comes from the Yankees - while only spending $25 million on salaries.

 

 

[Anfield Fox]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

[TheWatcher]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

 

 

Actually, they won it in '04

[FlyingDonut]

Why does every other major sport have a salary cap and not baseball? It only makes sense to not have a few really good teams and a bunch of ok/bad ones.

 

Baseball has revenue sharing, which is essentially the same thing, except there's no economic incentive for teams to actually spend money. Teams over $125 million in payroll must pay a huge luxury tax to a central fund, which is then distributed to teams under a certain amount. Several teams paid into the fund in 2006 (2007 numbers haven't been released yet) - the Yankees ($78.7 million), Red Sox ($59.7 million) and Mets ($30.9 million) were the biggest contributors at the end of last season.

 

The Devil Rays, Marlins and Royals were the three biggest beneficiaries of revenue sharing. The Devil Rays received $36 million, the Marlins $33.4 million, and the Royals $33.2 million. Note that the Devil Rays and the Marlins' payrolls were less than the revenue sharing amount they received - so those teams had a net negative salary outlay. These teams have NO incentive to spend money on players and player development. You want to compete within your division? Spend some damn money, and don't stupidly overpay for stiff players. Kansas City paid $55 million to Gil Meche. That's stupid. The Baltimore Orioles paid nearly $8 million for Kris Benson. That's stupid.

 

Here's a hint. Play in a good rotisserie baseball league. Look at the players who have big salaries in there, and those players who have no salaries. That's usually a good barometer. If somebody could get Carl Pavano in my rotisserie league for free, you can be relatively sure he isn't worth $40 million on an open market.

[Anfield Fox]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

 

 

Actually, they won it in '04

 

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox

[shadroch]

I find it hilarious that the Yanks fans constantly rip the Mets for being . I am not sure if you are aware of this, but the Yankees once again top baseball with a $195 million payroll. The Mets are merely 3rd with only $117 million spent. Imagine if the Mets had another $78 million to spend this year and what they could have accomplished.

 

As you demonstrated with the Tribe, payroll doesn't guarantee anything.

 

That said, should Steinbrenner NOT spend money to field a winning team just because other owners prefer to line their personal pockets instead of putting the revenue out on the field?

 

Mets are in the same media market and the same geographic/demographic fan base as the Yankees. They charge just as much for tickets and the merchandising is comparable.

 

The question is: WHY aren't they spending more if payroll is the magical key to success?

 

In my opinion, the Yanks do overpay for some players. Clemens, Kevin Brown, Mussina for example. AROD returns every penny plus 10 for what he costs.

 

Would the Indians do the same if they had the dough, or would the owner just line his own pockets?

 

Further, and just a note - the vast majority of ARod's salary is paid for by Texas.

 

Yankees starting lineup:

 

C: Posada: farm prospect

1B: Giambi: free agent, overpaid

2B: Cano: farm prospect

SS: Jeter: farm prospect - sure, he's paid a fortune, but he was a Yankee draft pick.

3B: ARod: acquired by trade for Alfonso Soriano, who the Yankees signed as a minor league free agent, plus Texas is paying the majority of his salary

LF: Abreu: acquired by trade when the Phillies dumped

CF: Damon free agent, overpaid

RF: Matsui - signed as a free agent, now 4@$52, which is reasonable.

 

I see you didn't add the Starting rotation/bullpen in here (for which they pay pretty handsomely). I am well aware of how the Yankees obtained players, but when you can pay more to retain your own free agents it is really an added bonus. I fully understand the economics of baseball and am not here to complain about that. I just find it really funny that the Yankees can sit on top of the soapbox and make fun of any other team. It is what it is, but it isn't exactly an even playing field. Do the Mets have the YES network and the income from it ?? Do the Mets have merchandise sales as high as the Yankees?? Do AROD (27M), Jeter (21M), and Giambi (23M) combined make $10M more than the whole Indians team?? I also used the Yankees April payroll which doesn't even include Clemens $18.7M . That would bump it up to about $214M which is a full $100M more than the Mets and at least double every single other team in baseball. The exceptions being the Red Sox. What if the Indians could have retained Jim Thome and Manny Ramirez a few years ago?? What if the Twins didn't have to lose Morneau, Torii Hunter, Johan Santana or some combination of them? I just don't feel like Yankees fans have any room to complain about any other team and how it is run when they have so many advantages over everyone else. Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

Why couldn't Cleveland have retained them if they wished to? George Stienbrenner

is amongst the poorest of the owners of MLB teams.At the time Manny was a free agent,wasn't Cleveland owned by members of the Dolan Family? The cable tv pioneers that own the Knicks,Rangers,MSG and Radio City? Why were they able to spend money on the Knicks but not the Indians? Could it be that they simply choose not to?If you want to make money,you need to spend money.Yankees have an owner that invests his money into the team. Most owners take monmey from their teams.Its really that simple.

When the Twins win,they draw great crowds. When they lose,they don't.That pretty much is true for every team except Boston(which sells out all the time) and Miami( that can't sell out World Series games).

But thats another tangent for another day.

We are gathered here today to scoff at the dismal failure of the NY Mets,the highest paid team in the National League,who couldn't even make the playoffs.

[TheWatcher]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

 

 

Actually, they won it in '04

 

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox

 

 

Well, the Cubs haven't won it since '08 and haven't been in the WS since '45.

[The Less Blob]

Well, I guess I jumped on the bandwagon in 1976 at age 4 when they made it back to the WS. I really jumped on the next year when Reggie came.

 

***********************************

Roy Smalley, Rick Cerone, and Oscar Gamble,

 

----------------------

 

Oscar Gamble played on 2 WS (losing) teams (76 and 81), and Cerone played on one (81).

 

The 80's, despite not making the playoffs, were not a bad decade of baseball in the Bronx until horrendous 1989. The Yanks had some good teams, just not good enough. They actually had the second best record in the majors for the decade.

 

Now, Alvaro Espinoza, Mel Hall, the return of Steve Balboni..that horrible 1989-1992 period.and a guy like andy Hawkins LOSING while pitching a no hitter, that's depressing. Coming in second place in an era before 15 teams made the playoffs didn't seem as bad, plus, back then, before he hurt his back, it was near certainty that Don Mattingly would deliver a championship, right?

[Sal]

What the Yankees can do is make mistakes - Carl Pavano anyone? That being said, teams that person_without_enough_empathy and moan about not being able to spend money should just shut up. Carl Pohlhad is one of the 400 most weathy people in America. Spend some money. The owners of the Kansas City Royals are also in that top 400 list. The Cleveland Indians are a money-making machine.

 

Do the Yankees have a massive payroll? Yes, but so do their division rival Red Sox. The team that's a joke in the American League is Tampa Bay, who receives nearly $40 million per year in revenue sharing - of which the majority comes from the Yankees - while only spending $25 million on salaries.

 

 

oh, thank you for saving me from having to type all that out.

 

i hate Geo Steinbrenner for trading Reggie Jackson, but even i have to admit the dude straight up puts his money where his mouth is.

 

people who whine about the Spankees spending like drunken sailors are either uninformed about the way revenue sharing works, are jealous, or have run out of other things to whine about

 

:sumo:

[Pirate]

Why does every other major sport have a salary cap and not baseball? It only makes sense to not have a few really good teams and a bunch of ok/bad ones.

 

Baseball has revenue sharing, which is essentially the same thing, except there's no economic incentive for teams to actually spend money. Teams over $125 million in payroll must pay a huge luxury tax to a central fund, which is then distributed to teams under a certain amount. Several teams paid into the fund in 2006 (2007 numbers haven't been released yet) - the Yankees ($78.7 million), Red Sox ($59.7 million) and Mets ($30.9 million) were the biggest contributors at the end of last season.

 

The Devil Rays, Marlins and Royals were the three biggest beneficiaries of revenue sharing. The Devil Rays received $36 million, the Marlins $33.4 million, and the Royals $33.2 million. Note that the Devil Rays and the Marlins' payrolls were less than the revenue sharing amount they received - so those teams had a net negative salary outlay. These teams have NO incentive to spend money on players and player development. You want to compete within your division? Spend some damn money, and don't stupidly overpay for stiff players. Kansas City paid $55 million to Gil Meche. That's stupid. The Baltimore Orioles paid nearly $8 million for Kris Benson. That's stupid.

 

Here's a hint. Play in a good rotisserie baseball league. Look at the players who have big salaries in there, and those players who have no salaries. That's usually a good barometer. If somebody could get Carl Pavano in my rotisserie league for free, you can be relatively sure he isn't worth $40 million on an open market.

 

I agree 110%. ON a side not this year the Yankees made zero impact trades at the deadline preserving their farm team. For years they had the worse farm in baseball and now with some great trades (big unit) and some great non trades (joba for gagne), they have a top notch farm team. I think every level but 1 finished first in the minors this year.

 

I agree they have high paid players, but like some have said, they pay to keep their stars. Can you imagine the product the expos and A's over the years would have put on the field if they paid half what the yanks did to keep their stars? It's real scary to think the yankees have a great farm system now.

[Anfield Fox]

What is this thread about?

 

It's why the red sox's will never win the world series

 

 

Actually, they won it in '04

 

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox

 

 

Well, the Cubs haven't won it since '08 and haven't been in the WS since '45.

 

Sorry. You've lost me. I didn't even know what the WS was until that episode of Lost. Now if you ever want to talk about real sports then LMK. You call yourself Greek yet i haven't seen you mention your countries great victory in 2004