It Come Down To It... The BEGINNING and the END of the Copper Age!

[HouseofComics.Com]

Kevin,

 

I probably know a dozen people who subscribe to the New Yorker alone. I know a ton of people who get Tennis Magazine, Sports Illustrated, etc. I used to get about 15 magazines a month (counting SI and NY as four each) but the business keeps me so busy that I'm now down to 9.

 

Btw, I wish there were a lot more threads like this one with long posts, not the usual "why am I reading this" threads with two word responses or graemlins.

[awe4one]

No offense to the fine people at CBG, but it is dead except for subs.

 

 

Seriously though...I think you can't discount the effect of subs on newsstand distribution. Subscriber numbers, as well as newsstand presence, weighs heavily on the amount they charge advertisers. That's one of the reason you can get subs for free. It boosts the numbers. Paid subs also supplement the bottomline and can allow the publisher to lose money on the newsstand and still generate a significant profit with advertising.

 

Comics slowly abandoned this model when they focused their attention towards the DM...

 

Jim

[Kevin Boyd]

Maybe not subscribing is an urban thing, because if the mags are readily available and I'm still not reading them, I don't see the point in subscribing. I've also noticed mags are something for people to read while they are killing time between lattes at the Starbucks in the big chain bookstores, I don't see people buying many mags at my local bookseller.... scanning them and reading them there, sure... but not buying them.

[HouseofComics.Com]

<

 

As I meant to post last time, subscriptions are THE distribution model for magazines now. The newsstand is very secondary. It's like Jim says, they will just about give you the magazine free.

 

 

<

 

You know better than I do, but my main point is that the big mainstream ones dwarf the IGN list don't they? The success you smartly list (handful that they are) dwarf 5,000 copy print runs. I wonder what the number of Ghost World TPBs in circulation is.

 

Marc

[awe4one]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I'd say other genres weren't/aren't ordered because they weren't selling/don't sell, someone else would argue that they weren't/aren't selling because no one was/is ordering them. Either way, they aren't ordered and those that are aren't really selling that well as periodicals (at least not in the DM).

 

I agree. This whole debate is an old one. Personally, I think some of it comes from the Indy clique who are frustrated that comics "they" think people should be reading do not gain widespread acceptance. Instead of blaming themselves for producing comics that no one wants to read, other than their close net community, they blame the distribution system. Which is funny since it's the same system they blame that also allows them easier access to get published compared to other media avenues...

 

Jim

[awe4one]

Maybe not subscribing is an urban thing, because if the mags are readily available and I'm still not reading them, I don't see the point in subscribing. I've also noticed mags are something for people to read while they are killing time between lattes at the Starbucks in the big chain bookstores, I don't see people buying many mags at my local bookseller.... scanning them and reading them there, sure... but not buying them.

 

You may be right...most of my subs were initially made while overseas (didn't want to miss issues) and others I know who get them are military members.

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

Okay, I gave in and read most of it. So, could someone please tie all of this up together and explain how it relates back to the end of the Copper age. Anyone?

[awe4one]

Okay, I gave in and read most of it. So, could someone please tie all of this up together and explain how it relates back to the end of the Copper age. Anyone?

 

Discussing changes of 80s comics distrinution cannot be discounted when talking the beginning and ending of the Copper Age...

 

Jim

[Kevin Boyd]

I agree. This whole debate is an old one. Personally, I think some of it comes from the Indy clique who are frustrated that comics "they" think people should be reading do not gain widespread acceptance. Instead of blaming themselves for producing comics that no one wants to read, other than their close net community, they blame the distribution system. Which is funny since it's the same system they blame that also allows them easier access to get published compared to other media avenues...

 

Jim

 

That pretty much nails it. We have a very large and influential Indy clique here in town that I work with on a regular basis, and they take a very narrow (that is, dim) view of the mainstream market and put it down regularly, despite the fact that the mainstream material is the bread-and-butter that keeps the very outlets that get their work out there to the general public going.

 

It's like the argument that Heidi McDonald recently presented about a book entitled the "Best American Comics of 2007" being all Indy artcomics as picked by Chris Ware and not being representative of the entire comics producing community, and how the Indy artcomics community took great offense to her point of view, even though she didn't put down any of the comics in the book, just the philosophy behind it.

 

I recently got myself into some hot water with them because at a public event they ran a comics history seminar description which discounted everything except some obscure local newspaper comic strips and the work of people published by Drawn & Quarterly.

[DrWatson]

Okay, I gave in and read most of it. So, could someone please tie all of this up together and explain how it relates back to the end of the Copper age. Anyone?

 

Discussing changes of 80s comics distrinution cannot be discounted when talking the beginning and ending of the Copper Age...

 

Jim

I am being serious.

[Kevin Boyd]

Okay, I gave in and read most of it. So, could someone please tie all of this up together and explain how it relates back to the end of the Copper age. Anyone?

 

Discussing changes of 80s comics distrinution cannot be discounted when talking the beginning and ending of the Copper Age...

 

Jim

I am being serious.

 

It doesn't. The discussion went off in a different direction when it was suggested that the metal "ages" descriptions be scrapped in favor of eras designated by the distribution systems available at the time of publication.

[DrWatson]

After being described as a human thread derailer, you would have thought that I would have picked up on that.

[awe4one]

Okay, I gave in and read most of it. So, could someone please tie all of this up together and explain how it relates back to the end of the Copper age. Anyone?

 

Discussing changes of 80s comics distribution cannot be discounted when talking the beginning and ending of the Copper Age...

 

Jim

I am being serious.

 

So was I...

 

Even though it's easy to assess the beginning/end of the Bronze Age and prior with specific comics, when discussing Copper and later you have to discuss the emergence of the DM and the changes associated with that move. It wasn't just about the comics that defined the Ages. In fact, in regards to Copper I'd say the changes have more importance than the comics themselves...

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

I would agree with that. It fits in nicely with my own thoughts on where the ages split and the driving force behind it; greed. Just my own opinion.

[awe4one]

It's like the argument that Heidi McDonald recently presented about a book entitled the "Best American Comics of 2007" being all Indy artcomics as picked by Chris Ware and not being representative of the entire comics producing community, and how the Indy artcomics community took great offense to her point of view, even though she didn't put down any of the comics in the book, just the philosophy behind it.

 

One of the problems with the Indy clique is their tendancy to slap each other on the back and congratulate themselves despite the success to warrant such celebrations. They exist in their own little world and everything outside isn't worthy of their attention. Which is fine...until they start railing against distro policies and readers who do not "appreciate" what they are producing. And all the while acting as if the comics superhero reader is somewhat retarded for not discovering their favorite comic. It's that myopic view which has hampered any in-roads towards gaining widespread acceptance in my opinion...

 

Jim

[awe4one]

After being described as a human thread derailer, you would have thought that I would have picked up on that.

 

At least this derailing is better than your typical graemlin war or "hey you" stream of consciousness posts...

 

Jim

[HouseofComics.Com]

Subscribing or not subscribing isn't really an urban thing. You can find a lot of magazines even in small towns at quite a few locations. It's more of a cost and convenience thing. The only people who will buy from a newsstand are those who just want "something to read" because they are at an airport or want to go sit in Starbucks. If you love Sports Illustrated, you're not going to pay five times as much and have to go to the inconvenience of buying the darn thing every week. You'll subscribe.

 

 

Maybe not subscribing is an urban thing, because if the mags are readily available and I'm still not reading them, I don't see the point in subscribing. I've also noticed mags are something for people to read while they are killing time between lattes at the Starbucks in the big chain bookstores, I don't see people buying many mags at my local bookseller.... scanning them and reading them there, sure... but not buying them.

 

You may be right...most of my subs were initially made while overseas (didn't want to miss issues) and others I know who get them are military members.

 

Jim

[Kevin Boyd]

Subscribing or not subscribing isn't really an urban thing. You can find a lot of magazines even in small towns at quite a few locations. It's more of a cost and convenience thing. The only people who will buy from a newsstand are those who just want "something to read" because they are at an airport or want to go sit in Starbucks. If you love Sports Illustrated, you're not going to pay five times as much and have to go to the inconvenience of buying the darn thing every week. You'll subscribe.

 

I would argue that if you have cable and access to the internet you don't need Sports Illustrated or any other sports mag to give you perspective on the sporting world, even at $1 an issue.

 

It's the same reason I don't get Maxim or Entertainment Weekly any longer. It's clutter. I don't need a mag that gives me movie and music reviews when all of that is available here on the net.

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

Yes, but that's just the online vs. print argument. SI about twice a month has a brilliant long piece. I'm sure I could find it on its website but it's a lot more pleasant to read and easy to find in the magazine.

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

I also have about zero interest in most sports, so I've never understood the appeal of SI (aside from the swimsuit issues), and I apply that lack of interest to most periodicals in print.

 

I'd rather use my free time away from a computer reading a graphic novel, a prose novel or a history book.