It Come Down To It... The BEGINNING and the END of the Copper Age!

[Mac Man]

In a number of threads here, we've all debated when the Copper Age starts and when it ends. Since this one still seems to be up for grabs, I say we set aside a dedicated thread to really hash this one out.

 

I don't want to taint the thread at the start, so but I will throw a few questions out there to get conversation started:

 

1. Can the CA's beginning be narrowed down to 1 specific issue OR did it gradually occur?

 

2. Same as Questions #1, but in reference to the end of the CA and beginning of MA.

 

3. What differentiated the CA from the preceding BA and the MA that would follow it?

 

I've got a free hour in between classes tomorrow, so I will probably throw my in then.

[awe4one]

I think the CA started definitively with GS X-Men #1.

 

Where it ended isn't so well defined in my opinion but it did start with Marvel. First with SM #1 and continued the process with X-Men #1 and X-Force #1. So essentially it ended in the 1990-1991 timeframe...

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

GS X-men #1 - that just won the Bronze Age survivor series - is the start of the copper age? Are you serious?

[awe4one]

GS X-men #1 - that just won the Bronze Age survivor series - is the start of the copper age? Are you serious?

 

Yep...or at least the end of Bronze. In fact, I thought it was the established end of Bronze for years until OS decided to move the Bronze Age a number of years later...

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

GS X-men #1 - that just won the Bronze Age survivor series - is the start of the copper age? Are you serious?

 

Yep...or at least the end of Bronze. In fact, I thought it was the established end of Bronze for years until OS decided to move the Bronze Age a number of years later...

 

Jim

That was 1975. Right smack in the middle of the Bronze age.

[awe4one]

That was 1975. Right smack in the middle of the Bronze age.

 

From who's perspective? I suggest that GS X-Men #1 started a new wave in team books and forced DC to try to imitate it with Teen Titans.

 

Again, it's my opinion and I know many others would disagree...

[MCMiles]

These are always interesting discusssions. I find that really there are overlapping endings and beginnings to the "ages", or even "dead spots in between.

 

But, if I have to pick a beggining and end.

I'll vote for Daredevil #158 as the beginning of the CA and ending with Batman "A Death in the Family" (#426-#429)

 

 

[DrWatson]

In a number of threads here, we've all debated when the Copper Age starts and when it ends. Since this one still seems to be up for grabs, I say we set aside a dedicated thread to really hash this one out.

 

I don't want to taint the thread at the start, so but I will throw a few questions out there to get conversation started:

 

1. Can the CA's beginning be narrowed down to 1 specific issue OR did it gradually occur?

 

2. Same as Questions #1, but in reference to the end of the CA and beginning of MA.

 

3. What differentiated the CA from the preceding BA and the MA that would follow it?

 

I've got a free hour in between classes tomorrow, so I will probably throw my in then.

 

1.) I believe that different titles began their Copper Age runs roughly around the same time. So, I would have go with that it happened in the same year, 1981. There would be a specific issue starting point for each title. For example, Uncanny X-men #144 from 1981, Fantastic Four #232 from 1981 and Avengers #211.

 

2.) The end of the Copper Age. That one is harder, but I think that can be signaled by all the rumblings that became Image and the publication of Spider-Man #1 and X-men #1 with all the different covers and all the holofoilchromiorgasmic BS. However, I have a problem with calling books from the era after the Copper age "moderns." A fifteen to sixteen year old book is not a modern. So, I believe that there is another age in-between Copper and Modern, we have started to refer to it as the Chrome Age.

 

3.) Commercialism for one thing. Also, the stories weren't as tight as in the Bronze age but they were better than the ones following it. In the Chrome and Modern ages you have all theses mega-uber-nothing-will-ever-be-the-same universal events that require you to buy umpteen different books if you want to follow the storyline. Also all the story arcs are ready made for TPB release. That seems to be the focus instead of, Hey, this is a really good, well written plot driven story. Plus the BA produced new characters, good characters, and you see a decline in that through the following ages. Copper wasn't so bad, but new character development after the Copper age is somewhat anemic.

 

Well, I don't know if that is what you were looking for, but it's what you got. My dollars worth of information.

[Rodey]

I agree. Those books that ended the copper age (X-men 1, SM 1, etc.) is the true ending of the copper. And there needs to be an age forming after those.

 

But the start of the copper age is so difficult to pinpoint because the beginning of copper had such a slow development. Hmm, I have to think about it some more.

[worldsbestcomics]

Well, here is my on this topic. Overstreet generally defines the ages as decades: silver 1955-1969, bronze 1970-79, copper 1980-89 and modern 1990-present. I think that general timeline works.

 

If you try to break it down to a particular month or title or book, there is room for a lot of discussion and debate. I was a Marvel reader back then, particularly Spider-Man and X-Men. I would say that there is a clean break for Spidey, the bronze age age end with issue 200 and the copper age runs from 201 through the end of the McFarlane run on Amazing. The modern age begins with Spider-Man 1.

 

With the X-Men, it s not quite as clean. I think that the bronze-age extend through the end of the Byrne/Claremont run on Uncanny. The copper age runs from 144 through the first appearance of Gambit in 266. But you could also make a strong case that the modern age begins with the release of X-Men 1/Uncanny 281 which would peg Uncanny 280 as the end of the copper age.

 

Eventually, there will be a need for a new "age" that would roughly encompass the 1990s. I like the "chrome" age as a name because of the appearance and popularity of the chromium or foil covers in the early 1990s. Some of the characteristics of this age would include: the first major improvements in the printing/production process in over 30 years; the rise (and in some cases fall) of independent publishers like Image, Valiant, Dark Horse and others; and the greatly increased fan focus on superstar creators/artists/writers like Todd McFarlane, Jim Lee and Neil Gaiman.

[gacguy]

... and all the holofoilchromiorgasmic BS.

 

[Mac Man]

Well, I think we can all agree that tagging comics from the 1990s isn't exactly "modern" and personally believe we should looking at this decade as the Chrome Age in comics (even if brass is more logical, chrome is more fitting). Further, it's pretty easy to identify the beginning of this Chrome Age by the storylines focusing more on graphic sex & violence and more flashy covers, over-production of issues, etc. I think we've all gotten this hammered down.

 

How about differentiating the bronze age from copper age though? Doc's spot on with taking UXM 144 for the beginning of the CA, and I would suggest it is because the BA Behmoths of Byrne and Claremont parted ways at this point giving way to a new era. I also figure that SW8/ASM 252 helped seperate the BA from CA with the coming of the Symbiote Costume. These are some issues and events that mark the difference though- not "personality difference."

 

So what "feels" different about the CA v. the BA? Maybe in identifying these characteristics, we can better understand this age and its contribution to the hobby?

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

I believe the start of the copper age should start with the first Marvel mini-series. I've stated this a couple times before. Marvel Super-Hero Contest of Champions #1 came out with a June 1982 date, which is also about the time of another major change the birth of the Major independents. The mega mini-series changed comic books like nothing else since and this was the first, even though it wasn't as big as the next one, Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars, which DC countered with with Crisis on Infinite Earths. What do you still see today being the big sellers on the stands? As for the ending, I think that's about the early 90's with the possibly the death of a lot of Independents when the comic market sank.

[Mac Man]

Ok, so the notion of the mini series as one major aspct that sets the CA apart from the BA- very cool. Any other ideas?

 

[Zonker]

Any other ideas?

 

The Bronze Age was the last age where newstand sales predominated. As such, you have more existing low grade copies today than high grade copies. That's just not true of the heavily-hoarded 1980s-onward books. From that standpoint, everything from the last 25 years is equally "Modern."

[awe4one]

Any other ideas?

 

The Bronze Age was the last age where newstand sales predominated. As such, you have more existing low grade copies today than high grade copies. That's just not true of the heavily-hoarded 1980s-onward books. From that standpoint, everything from the last 25 years is equally "Modern."

 

True...what year did the DM start officially? 1979 or so?

 

Jim

[the blob]

From who's perspective? I suggest that GS X-Men #1 started a new wave in team books and forced DC to try to imitate it with Teen Titans.

----------------------------------

 

Yeah, but but NTT didn't come out for like another 5 years until 1980.

 

 

[matewan1990]

I have always referred to the period after the bronze age ended as the Fool's Gold Age, because it was definitely a time where people believed they were buying into stockpiles of gold and that comics were going to make them rich. Thus, the companies started making chromium covers, die-cut covers, bullet-hole covers, hologram covers and all sorts of other "effects." And, despite the love I feel for Valiant Comics, I believe their incentive program started all this, with the mail-away promotions, their gold editions, platinum editions, chromium covers, signed covers, beer, pins and rings. Other companies saw that Valiant was highly successful with its incentives and started trying to one-up each other. Soon, you had premiums selling for hundreds of dollars and collectors thought "If it's selling for hundreds now, it'll have to sell for thousands in later years, so I'll be rich if I buy now (low) and sell later (high)."

Here's another thought to the end of the bronze age...

Does the bronze age extend to the publication of the first Image books as it began the mass exodus of talent from Marvel to form a third major publisher? Some argue that the silver age ended when Jack Kirby left Marvel, so there may be an argument made that Spawn 1 and Youngblood 1 are the end of the bronze age.

Those two definitely ushered in a new era of comics and gave the 1990s that awfully ugly artwork that every company felt compelled to copy.

There is usually a cooling-off period between ages, like the period between the Golden Age and the silver age that some refer to as the "atomic" age. What were the years of the cooling off period before the start of the bronze age and between the end of the BA and the start of the Fool's Gold Age?

Just some questions and thoughts on the matter...

Mike B.

[Sal]

i can't really accept the Bronze Age as extending all the way into 1992, when i think it's pretty clear it ended sometime on or around August of 1980.

 

 

the Fool's Gold Age, as you refer to it, probably didn't really begin in earnest until at least 1990, or whenever Spider-Man 1 came out. not sure when that age ended, really, but it does seem that there is an argument to be made about the time period immediately after the end of Copper Age which ended before the Modern Age - which began with what, i have no idea

[MCMiles]

I thiink you nay have to go back to Legends of the Dark Knight #1 for the definitive issue that began the "fooll's gold", "chrome", "Gimik" age. Now that was a rip with the four different colored covers.

 

Does anyone know if Spider-man #1 was the first book offered with an incintive, the Platinum #1?