A very public pressing

[Scheradon]

Thanks Showcase, for an informative post, and for disclosing. I do have one question though.....

 

Why not have Matt disassemble the book to bring the restoration of these books all the way back? Why wasn't that done? Why settle for a 95% improvement and not 100%? I'm sure Matt could have done that (without washing). Doesn't CGC give the thumbs-up to well-done disassembly these days?

 

Red

 

Steve kinda answered that: "Supposedly, if the pages/cover were washed, book disassembled and pressed, 100% of the waviness could have been eliminated instead of the 95% ( ish ) that was accomplished from just pressing."

 

There is a good chance we might hit it for being cleaned.

 

Very nice books, Steve. I am amazed at how alive the colors are. Perfect books to press. Congrads! (thumbs u

 

Steve Borock has made it very clear that Disassembly and pressing (without washing) is NOT restoration.

 

 

Quotes from Steve borock:

 

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

 

One of the OLD ways of pressing books was to disassemble it, soak the pages and cover, dry the pages, re-fold the pages and put it back together. Soaking the cover and pages most of the time would make them look cleaned and is considered restoration (cleaning) by CGC. That is why we have stated that disassembled pressing is not something that should be done and we downgrade when books have defects from being pressed incorrectly. When a book is only disassembled AND the staples are not put back correctly the submitter also takes a big chance of getting a qualified grade for staples replaced. Disassembly and reassembly of a comic book, in and of itself, is not considered to be restoration. Almost all of the time that a comic book is disassembled and reassembled, restoration is performed to it because the reason that it was taken apart was to restore it. The disassembled pressing I mention is a primitive and invasive method of pressing that can result in the book receiving a lower grade and that is why anyone should discourage it.

 

I think you're misreading the first quote, which if I remember correctly, was in reference to the Boy Comics that went from 4.5 to 9.0. He's not saying someone disassembled the book to press it. He's saying someone opened the staples, switched the covers, bent the staples back again, then, after the book had been reassembled, pressed the book.

 

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Read this exchange:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=1699369&Searchpage=1&Main=94623&Words=disassembly+sborock&topic=0&Search=true#Post1699369

 

I think Steve makes it very clear that disassembly with pressing (again, no washing) is okay. As for whether a book is pressed before, during, or after the disassembly, it makes no difference according to what Steve B implies is CGC's definition of restoration.

[nearmint]

Thanks Showcase, for an informative post, and for disclosing. I do have one question though.....

 

Why not have Matt disassemble the book to bring the restoration of these books all the way back? Why wasn't that done? Why settle for a 95% improvement and not 100%? I'm sure Matt could have done that (without washing). Doesn't CGC give the thumbs-up to well-done disassembly these days?

 

Red

 

Steve kinda answered that: "Supposedly, if the pages/cover were washed, book disassembled and pressed, 100% of the waviness could have been eliminated instead of the 95% ( ish ) that was accomplished from just pressing."

 

There is a good chance we might hit it for being cleaned.

 

Very nice books, Steve. I am amazed at how alive the colors are. Perfect books to press. Congrads! (thumbs u

 

Steve Borock has made it very clear that Disassembly and pressing (without washing) is NOT restoration.

 

 

Quotes from Steve borock:

 

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

 

One of the OLD ways of pressing books was to disassemble it, soak the pages and cover, dry the pages, re-fold the pages and put it back together. Soaking the cover and pages most of the time would make them look cleaned and is considered restoration (cleaning) by CGC. That is why we have stated that disassembled pressing is not something that should be done and we downgrade when books have defects from being pressed incorrectly. When a book is only disassembled AND the staples are not put back correctly the submitter also takes a big chance of getting a qualified grade for staples replaced. Disassembly and reassembly of a comic book, in and of itself, is not considered to be restoration. Almost all of the time that a comic book is disassembled and reassembled, restoration is performed to it because the reason that it was taken apart was to restore it. The disassembled pressing I mention is a primitive and invasive method of pressing that can result in the book receiving a lower grade and that is why anyone should discourage it.

 

I think you're misreading the first quote, which if I remember correctly, was in reference to the Boy Comics that went from 4.5 to 9.0. He's not saying someone disassembled the book to press it. He's saying someone opened the staples, switched the covers, bent the staples back again, then, after the book had been reassembled, pressed the book.

 

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Read this exchange:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=1699369&Searchpage=1&Main=94623&Words=disassembly+sborock&topic=0&Search=true#Post1699369

 

I think Steve makes it very clear that disassembly with pressing (again, no washing) is okay. As for whether a book is pressed before, during, or after the disassembly, it makes no difference according to what Steve B implies is CGC's definition of restoration.

 

He's not discussing disassembly pressing as a combined procedure in that exchange. He's talking about non-additive procedures such as pressing and disassembly. Two separate procedures.

 

Brad asked if disassembling Steve's books, pressing them, then reassembling them would have been more effective than simply pressing the assembled book. I'm simply saying that I've never heard of any resto expert disassembling a book to press it without some kind of wash involved. As far as I know, it's not an effective procedure.

[MasterChief]

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Of course there is. You dissemble the book, introduce moisture to each folio to relax the paper fibers, refold each folio, apply heat with pressure, reassemble the component parts, and finally press the reassembled book as a whole to complete the process. You don't have to "wash" the folios in order for it to fall into the category of "disassembled pressing".

[Scheradon]

Thanks Showcase, for an informative post, and for disclosing. I do have one question though.....

 

Why not have Matt disassemble the book to bring the restoration of these books all the way back? Why wasn't that done? Why settle for a 95% improvement and not 100%? I'm sure Matt could have done that (without washing). Doesn't CGC give the thumbs-up to well-done disassembly these days?

 

Red

 

Steve kinda answered that: "Supposedly, if the pages/cover were washed, book disassembled and pressed, 100% of the waviness could have been eliminated instead of the 95% ( ish ) that was accomplished from just pressing."

 

There is a good chance we might hit it for being cleaned.

 

Very nice books, Steve. I am amazed at how alive the colors are. Perfect books to press. Congrads! (thumbs u

 

Steve Borock has made it very clear that Disassembly and pressing (without washing) is NOT restoration.

 

 

Quotes from Steve borock:

 

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

 

One of the OLD ways of pressing books was to disassemble it, soak the pages and cover, dry the pages, re-fold the pages and put it back together. Soaking the cover and pages most of the time would make them look cleaned and is considered restoration (cleaning) by CGC. That is why we have stated that disassembled pressing is not something that should be done and we downgrade when books have defects from being pressed incorrectly. When a book is only disassembled AND the staples are not put back correctly the submitter also takes a big chance of getting a qualified grade for staples replaced. Disassembly and reassembly of a comic book, in and of itself, is not considered to be restoration. Almost all of the time that a comic book is disassembled and reassembled, restoration is performed to it because the reason that it was taken apart was to restore it. The disassembled pressing I mention is a primitive and invasive method of pressing that can result in the book receiving a lower grade and that is why anyone should discourage it.

 

I think you're misreading the first quote, which if I remember correctly, was in reference to the Boy Comics that went from 4.5 to 9.0. He's not saying someone disassembled the book to press it. He's saying someone opened the staples, switched the covers, bent the staples back again, then, after the book had been reassembled, pressed the book.

 

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Read this exchange:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=1699369&Searchpage=1&Main=94623&Words=disassembly+sborock&topic=0&Search=true#Post1699369

 

I think Steve makes it very clear that disassembly with pressing (again, no washing) is okay. As for whether a book is pressed before, during, or after the disassembly, it makes no difference according to what Steve B implies is CGC's definition of restoration.

 

He's not discussing disassembly pressing as a combined procedure in that exchange. He's talking about non-additive procedures such as pressing and disassembly. Two separate procedures.

 

Brad asked if disassembling Steve's books, pressing them, then reassembling them would have been more effective than simply pressing the assembled book. I'm simply saying that I've never heard of any resto expert disassembling a book to press it without some kind of wash involved. As far as I know, it's not an effective procedure.

 

What I'm saying is, two non-restorative procedures done = non-restored. It doesn't matter what combination they are done in, neither are considered resto to CGC.

 

 

[Scheradon]

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Of course there is. You dissemble the book, introduce moisture to each folio to relax the paper fibers, refold each folio, apply heat with pressure, reassemble the component parts, and finally press the reassembled book as a whole to complete the process. You don't have to "wash" the folios in order for it to fall into the category of "disassembled pressing".

 

[nearmint]

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Of course there is. You dissemble the book, introduce moisture to each folio to relax the paper fibers, refold each folio, apply heat with pressure, reassemble the component parts, and finally press the reassembled book as a whole to complete the process. You don't have to "wash" the folios in order for it to fall into the category of "disassembled pressing".

 

Chief, how is moisture introduced? Honest question.

Sounds like a much more labor intensive process than Steve wanted. And probably significantly more expensive.

[Red Hook]

My question was also directed to the submitter of the book. I'm trying to get a better idea of why he would stop short of allowing Matt to disassemble the book.

Brad

 

Matt told may that disassembly may trigger a PLOD, and that pressing won't. Even if he was being conservative ( which I appreciate ), I did not want to take any chances. I am a "blue only" collector.

 

Perfect. Thanks, Steve! That's exactly the info I was looking for.

 

Brad

[Red Hook]

 

My mistake.

 

No problem-o. (thumbs u

[Red Hook]

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Of course there is. You dissemble the book, introduce moisture to each folio to relax the paper fibers, refold each folio, apply heat with pressure, reassemble the component parts, and finally press the reassembled book as a whole to complete the process. You don't have to "wash" the folios in order for it to fall into the category of "disassembled pressing".

 

As I understand it, that is correct.

[Scheradon]

If done correctly, no the creases/rolls will NOT return.

 

However, I cannot say about comics as pictured from that coffee can - some, of the rolls, SOME, not a lot, MIGHT come back...

 

Then a second pressing will "retrain" the pulp fibers/molecules to stay flat...

 

CAL

 

Here's a quote from Matt Nelson where he seems to agree that some spine rolls could revert back to some degree:

If the book is pressed safely and correctly, it should never revert back to its original pre-pressed state. In the case of massive spine rolls, yes, there is the possibility that it could roll back slightly. But to correct them the right way, these kind of spine rolls usually need very aggressive work, which would involve taking the book apart and doing other things that would constitute restoration.

 

 

On the topic of second pressings, it looks like Matt is saying he would NOT recommend nor press these books again:

While I think it's highly unlikely that a book I already pressed would show up again, I would not press it again if it did. I don't agree with multiple pressings. I think it would be best if I had maybe 10 books from each person to choose from, so we get even results. It's not hard to find 10 candidates since cost, value, and grade are not a factor here.

 

[Red Hook]

 

Chief, how is moisture introduced? Honest question.

 

 

Ask Matt. Classics Incorporated (972) 980-8040

 

And now I'm ducking out of this thread before I get into more trouble.

[nearmint]

If done correctly, no the creases/rolls will NOT return.

 

However, I cannot say about comics as pictured from that coffee can - some, of the rolls, SOME, not a lot, MIGHT come back...

 

Then a second pressing will "retrain" the pulp fibers/molecules to stay flat...

 

CAL

 

Here's a quote from Matt Nelson where he seems to agree that some spine rolls could revert back to some degree:

If the book is pressed safely and correctly, it should never revert back to its original pre-pressed state. In the case of massive spine rolls, yes, there is the possibility that it could roll back slightly. But to correct them the right way, these kind of spine rolls usually need very aggressive work, which would involve taking the book apart and doing other things that would constitute restoration.

 

 

On the topic of second pressings, it looks like Matt is saying he would NOT recommend nor press these books again:

While I think it's highly unlikely that a book I already pressed would show up again, I would not press it again if it did. I don't agree with multiple pressings. I think it would be best if I had maybe 10 books from each person to choose from, so we get even results. It's not hard to find 10 candidates since cost, value, and grade are not a factor here.

 

Steve mentioned in the GA thread about these books that they would be pressed a second time, and perhaps a third.

[Red Hook]

Jeff, can you please specify which Steve you're referring to? We have a couple of Steves in this thread. Thanks.

 

Brad

[DrWatson]

Can someone explain why additional pressings are not performed? Just curious.

 

BTW... I already have Matt's number and e-mail.

[nearmint]

Jeff, can you please specify which Steve you're referring to? We have a couple of Steves in this thread. Thanks.

 

Brad

 

Showcase.

[Red Hook]

Gracias.

[MasterChief]

I don't think there's any such thing as disassembly pressing without washing.

 

Of course there is. You dissemble the book, introduce moisture to each folio to relax the paper fibers, refold each folio, apply heat with pressure, reassemble the component parts, and finally press the reassembled book as a whole to complete the process. You don't have to "wash" the folios in order for it to fall into the category of "disassembled pressing".

 

Chief, how is moisture introduced? Honest question.

Sounds like a much more labor intensive process than Steve wanted. And probably significantly more expensive.

 

Honest answer. That's proprietary information. Ask Matt, Susan, or even Kenny (who had to sign a waver not to divulged procedural technique), they will not go into specific details about the techniques of the process (intact or disassembled). This makes a lot of sense when you think about it, or every swinging would be making money off the process.

 

Labor intensive? Perhaps to an apprentice. But it's reasonable to believe that ones skill and ability improves over the course of time. The production efficiency factor increases as one evolves from an apprentice to a journeyman to a master.

 

[codfish]

Good Lord! Why would there be any debate about how these books were pressed? So what if some of the wave remains? I would not expect a simple pressing to remove the whole thing and disassembling just is way too risky if you want to avoid a PLOD. I think the wisest decision was made with respect to the type (and degree) of pressing.

 

The only thing I wonder is if cheap at home pressure pressing could not have generated the same results? I haven't had occasion to try so I was curious.

 

I was wondering too if a customer requested it of CGC would they put a "pressed" comment on the label? At least in the case of "conservation" pressing such as this.

 

 

[nearmint]

Thanks for the info. (thumbs u

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

Removal of staples to me is ridiculous and why would CGC ever want to support such a process? Maybe "restoration" is the wrong word but sounds like surgery to me. I don't want to open a can of worms but I seem to recall that at one point the following logic was used: "if it can't be easily detected then its not considered restoration".