Let's talk money

[Mighty Hal]

I've bought comic art from dealers, eBay and CAF'ers but I like to buy directly from the artist when possible. There's some personal interaction, always a plus, and a chance to get a piece I love before it goes to a dealer, eBay or CAF.

 

But it seems to me that recent OA cover prices can be...crazy. Simone Bianchi is asking $5000 for his (terrific) cover to Batman #653. David Finch has posted his New X-Men #44 cover (also, I admit, terrific) for $7500. And it made me think: Collectors are paying more and more for OA. But how much do the comic companies actually pay their artists for cover artwork?

 

I understand that Marvel and DC would presumably pay more than an outfit like Dark Horse or Dynamite Entertainment (who does Red Sonja) -- but how much more? Does anybody here know?

[*paull*]

If that's the case, I think these prices are just outrageous. That money would be much better spent on vintage material that has grown and held value over the years. Just think what $7500 could get you.... that's a pretty damn nice Kirby FF page.

[Nexus]

Bianchi and Finch are pikers compared to Art Adams. He had a new cover with a $35K price tag on it at San Diego this year. Now, it was a spectacular piece and I'm sure there's someone out there willing to pay it, but the sticker shock made me do a double-take. And then a triple-take.

 

I don't know what artists get for covers but I was shocked to find out what artists get for sketch cards. $1 a card. That's "one dollar". A buck. A greenback. Topps paid out a generous $1.50.

 

 

[*paull*]

Hell, would Art Adams' best vintage page or cover ever go for $35K? I'm betting no.

[Bronty]

Bianchi and Finch are pikers compared to Art Adams. He had a new cover with a $35K price tag on it at San Diego this year. Now, it was a spectacular piece and I'm sure there's someone out there willing to pay it, but the sticker shock made me do a double-take. And then a triple-take.

 

I don't know what artists get for covers but I was shocked to find out what artists get for sketch cards. $1 a card. That's "one dollar". A buck. A greenback. Topps paid out a generous $1.50.

 

 

Wow... 35k for a modern cover

 

Some truly great fine artists oils aren't worth that. Complete insanity. IMO even 5k for a modern piece is nuts if the buyer has any thought of eventual resale.

[delekkerste]

Bianchi and Finch are pikers compared to Art Adams. He had a new cover with a $35K price tag on it at San Diego this year. Now, it was a spectacular piece and I'm sure there's someone out there willing to pay it, but the sticker shock made me do a double-take. And then a triple-take.

 

:o

 

Did it come with a free Frazetta as well???

[dkao-migration]

yeah I really wanted a Bianchi cover..but 6-7K for any modern pencil cover is kinda ridiculous.

[Enforcer]

These prices definitely seem to be getting crazy. I'm a huge Thor fan as you can plainly see by my collection and I was looking forward to trying to nab one of the early covers to the new run by Coipel. That is until I saw them priced at $5K and up. A splash page from issue #1 also sold for $5K I just don't see it. I was expecting those covers to be in the 1.5 to 2K range. That shows what I know I guess. I'm glad that I was able to buy a lot of my art directly from the artists myself. The artists that I've dealt with so far have had more than fair prices IMHO. But on the other hand, if nobody was paying these insane prices, I guess they wouldn't be selling any art. I know that I haven't bought much lately except for one HUGE (for me anyway) purchase that I just completed. I'll post it when I receive it.

 

Enforcer

[GotSuperPowers?]

I'd guess Adams $35k price could be down to the 'I don't really want to sell, but hell, make me an offer this good, and you can walk away with it...' I completely agree though, that kind of money for a new piece is just insane.

[comix4fun]

Bianchi and Finch are pikers compared to Art Adams. He had a new cover with a $35K price tag on it at San Diego this year. Now, it was a spectacular piece and I'm sure there's someone out there willing to pay it, but the sticker shock made me do a double-take. And then a triple-take.

 

I don't know what artists get for covers but I was shocked to find out what artists get for sketch cards. $1 a card. That's "one dollar". A buck. A greenback. Topps paid out a generous $1.50.

 

 

Wow... 35k for a modern cover

 

Some truly great fine artists oils aren't worth that. Complete insanity. IMO even 5k for a modern piece is nuts if the buyer has any thought of eventual resale.

 

 

Well to be fair...the cover in question is this one.

And the original art is giant sized. This wasn't an 11x17 piece up for display.

If I remember right it was more than double that in size.

It is still a hefty price, no doubt. But this might be the best thing that arthur has ever done and in a world where his classic x-men covers (11"x17" in size) are getting offers of $20k+ and getting turned down, and his unpubbed standard size pieces sell for $5-9k. I can see where he would price this at a number above and beyond all those other pieces.

[Artemaria]

This is a great thread. I've no first hand knowledge about how much comic artists make, but I've read on the internet and heard anecdotes about the comic wage scale, and it is not good.

 

One source (now a few years old) suggested that page rates range from a starting amount of $25 to $1K plus per page for a superstar (think Jim Lee). If my understanding of the pay scale is correct, the artist's rate is the same for every page inside the issue, regardless of content, so an all black page of someone unconscious would get paid the same as a heavily detailed page with backgrounds. However, covers would be more. Those figures are now a couple of years old, but I don't think its risen all that much. Maybe doubled from that time.

 

In the not so old days, as everyone here is probably very aware, comic artists were severely underpaid. The great Neal Adams once told a story about how the comic companies told everyone not to tell others about how much they were getting paid.

 

Neal, being Neal, ignored the advice. Neal told Curt Swan that he was getting $55 per page (that is the exact amount that Neal stated), and Curt was shocked to hear that the company that told him he was so highly regarded paid him less than it paid Neal. So Curt went in and got his $55 per page.

 

Today's artists have it much better, but I suspect the sale of original artwork is a growing chunk of their income. I'm guessing that the artists charge so much for covers because the covers are the prime piece from the whole issue. As everyone knows, there are many many panel pages that either don't have any of the characters in costume, are rather irrelevant to the story as a whole, and/or are not otherwise appealing. Because these pages will sell for (relatively) minimal amounts, I would suspect that the artist tries to make a decent amount off of the cover.

 

That being said, $35K for an Art Adams cover is an "investment" that never will be recovered. While I adore Art Adams's work, and was an underbidder on one or more of his eBay auctions, I believe that the sticker is there to entice people to go to amounts that they would never previously consider for an Art Adams cover, as no reasonable collector would pay the $35K.

 

The point about vintage art is an excellent one. Art that has been around for decades has a pretty set value and has a track record of holding that value. So, if you can afford it - and if you like it, vintage art likely would be a somewhat more financially sound pursuit than some of the modern offerings.

 

However, I'm not at the point yet where I think of this hobby as an "investment."

 

Best regards.

 

- A

[comix4fun]

 

Some truly great fine artists oils aren't worth that. Complete insanity. IMO even 5k for a modern piece is nuts if the buyer has any thought of eventual resale.

 

 

How modern is the piece in your hypothesis?

I said that about covers from the 1980's when they were current (except we were talking about $500-1000 asking price back then), and now you can name dozens of covers from that era (literally) that are $20k plus....without getting down to the ones that are $5k plus.

 

I said it again about 1990's covers. Jim Lee's, Silvestri's etc etc when they were moving at $4k, 5k, 6k. and now look who's covers are selling for $10k, $20k, $35k at auction.

 

I am done being shocked at what "modern" pieces sell for, and I certainly have stopped making blanket statements that it will "never sell for more" than $X price. All these sales and auctions keep proving me wrong. I guess as soon as the "modern" label is shaken off and handed to something newer pieces are free to enter the "nostalgia pool".

 

Chris

[Mighty Hal]

Thanks, Comix4fun, for posting the Adams piece. For me, it's simply a giant group shot; there's no real drama inherent in the artwork. While it is spectacular -- Adams' work usually starts at 'wow' and goes up from there -- I somehow doubt that Marvel paid him anything like 35K to produce it. So the question is: Are publishers being charged less than collectors?

 

If so...that's nuts.

 

Something to remember when we talk about the 'classic covers' of yesteryear: Nobody was impressed by OA 'way back when. A lot of the covers were tossed, many were treated badly, and the supply of that artwork is limited. And finding a cover to a book you REALLY cared about? Well, there just aren't many of those around.

 

But Simone Bianchi is taking good care of his cover artwork. (And, should I ever buy a Bianchi cover, you can bet that I'll take good care of it once I get it home. Having spent $5,000, I'll sleep out on the couch. The Bianchi cover can have my bed.) I'm guessing that every Simone Bianchi cover ever done will still be available fifty years from now. The same can be said with the artwork of just about every modern comic artist in the world today. They KNOW their stuff has value.

 

Consequently, I don't think we're going to see prices skyrocket as they have in the recent past. Especially when we're starting in the multi-thousands to begin with.

 

[Bronty]

 

Some truly great fine artists oils aren't worth that. Complete insanity. IMO even 5k for a modern piece is nuts if the buyer has any thought of eventual resale.

 

 

How modern is the piece in your hypothesis?

 

I am done being shocked at what "modern" pieces sell for, and I certainly have stopped making blanket statements that it will "never sell for more" than $X price. All these sales and auctions keep proving me wrong. I guess as soon as the "modern" label is shaken off and handed to something newer pieces are free to enter the "nostalgia pool".

 

Chris

 

I was talking about the ones mentioned in this thread. One of those books isn't even out yet, I believe. I'm talking just off the presses here.

 

Difference with the 80s and to some extent the 90s works is there were readers then. The further away you get from the mid 80s, to my mind at least, the riskier all of this becomes.

 

But that's beside the point. Sure, 80s and 90s covers have risen. But they took five, ten, twenty years to get there. These guys are asking for that kind of money day one. That's the critical difference here. What does that Finch piece have to be worth in twenty years to make the amount paid worth it, if the buyer plans on or even entertains ever reselling? 30-40-50k? Lotsa luck jack.

[comix4fun]

Thanks, Comix4fun, for posting the Adams piece. For me, it's simply a giant group shot; there's no real drama inherent in the artwork. While it is spectacular -- Adams' work usually starts at 'wow' and goes up from there -- I somehow doubt that Marvel paid him anything like 35K to produce it. So the question is: Are publishers being charged less than collectors?

 

If so...that's nuts.

 

 

Well, for one thing publishers aren't buying artwork...they are buying the right to publish the image. The artwork belongs to the artist. So I can understand a disparity between what companies pay artists and what the art sells for....knowing what some of the artists are paid from the publishers it is almost impossible for the artist to charge collector's LESS.

 

Would you rather own the Mona Lisa or own the right to put the image of the Mona Lisa on the cover of a magazine? I will take the artwork itself 10 times out of 10. The value of being able to put an image on a cover doesn't really compare to having permanent ownership...to me.

 

As for the $35k price tag it was just for that single piece. Nothing else he was selling came even close in price tag. It looks like that piece is one of Arthur's favorites and he priced it that way. Everything else was more in line.

 

This cover (for example) was less priced 65 or 70% less than the big piece...

 

This cover was priced less than 1/2 of the big piece. (and is my personal favorite so far)

 

 

 

[Bronty]

Bianchi and Finch are pikers compared to Art Adams. He had a new cover with a $35K price tag on it at San Diego this year. Now, it was a spectacular piece and I'm sure there's someone out there willing to pay it, but the sticker shock made me do a double-take. And then a triple-take.

 

I don't know what artists get for covers but I was shocked to find out what artists get for sketch cards. $1 a card. That's "one dollar". A buck. A greenback. Topps paid out a generous $1.50.

 

 

Wow... 35k for a modern cover

 

Some truly great fine artists oils aren't worth that. Complete insanity. IMO even 5k for a modern piece is nuts if the buyer has any thought of eventual resale.

 

 

Well to be fair...the cover in question is this one.

And the original art is giant sized. This wasn't an 11x17 piece up for display.

If I remember right it was more than double that in size.

It is still a hefty price, no doubt. But this might be the best thing that arthur has ever done and in a world where his classic x-men covers (11"x17" in size) are getting offers of $20k+ and getting turned down, and his unpubbed standard size pieces sell for $5-9k. I can see where he would price this at a number above and beyond all those other pieces.

 

Don't get me wrong - I totally support Art Adams or anyone else pricing their work that high - they're just trying to make a living. I don't agree with the people paying these kinds of prices for "day one" work, but its their money.

[comix4fun]

What does that Finch piece have to be worth in twenty years to make the amount paid worth it, if the buyer plans on or even entertains ever reselling? 30-40-50k? Lotsa luck jack.

 

 

I feel the same way about alot of modern art and prices. I do.

But I have to temper my feelings against stuff like McFarlane Spider-Man covers...or Spawn Covers...or Jim Lee X-men covers. Your words were my words, in every case. Over and Over again I said the same thing. I still say it, while at the same time McFarlane Spider-Man covers crossed $20k, then $30k, then $50k...and then passed $60k. People are willing and able to pay premium prices for these items. It amazes me everytime.

 

Lee X-men covers at $35k....you only have to go back 24 months for that to be a pipe dream.

 

When it comes to modern art values I pretty much have said the exact same thing you have, and I still believe it, but the market for these pieces keeps moving upward and onward.

 

I just know now it is impossible to predict.

 

C

[Bronty]

But Finch? Bianchi? I'll admit I've been out of comics 3 or 4 years but I don't even know who these guys are and I bet if you threw 10 random comic collectors in a room no more than 2 would know. These are not guys making the same kind of impact on the industry that the Image guys did (as much as I don't care for most of their work). (

 

By comparison in the late 80s EVERYBODY was aware of mcfarlane, he was making a tremendous splash in the industry. So while god knows I think 50k is too much for his work I can on some level understand someone being to pay whatever it takes to get that work.

[Sharkey]

Just think what $7500 could get you.... that's a pretty damn nice Kirby FF page.

 

(thumbs u

 

I agree money would be better spent on vintage Kirby -- but you might revise that. The way things have been going, $7500 will get you HALF a pretty damn nice Kirby FF page (Kirby/Sinnott that is).

[westform]

I don't know Steve, I think only if you are talking twice up. That would get you a pretty killer small art Kirby/Sinnott FF page.... still vintage, still great!