THE CROSSGEN IMPLOSION

[delekkerste]

Read all about it here:

 

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5864

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5890

 

This is just bad news for Crossgen fans like myself and the for the hobby as a whole. Even if you're just a Marvel and/or DC fan, you have to be disheartened that the comic book market isn't strong enough for a well-financed, different, talent-loaded shop like Crossgen to thrive.

 

This is very sad news to hear rumors that most of the original Crossgen titles are on the chopping block and to see talent like George Perez, Butch Guice, Drew Geraci, etc. on the way out. I fear that fans even of "healthy" titles like Sojourn and El Cazador may start bailing if they think the entire company won't be around in a year or two...

 

Gene

[BronzeBruce13]

Weren't they the Co, that tried the DVD's?... didn't work out I guess?

[Darthdiesel]

If you are not into the Sigil thing, then there's no point...I picked up all 4 crossgen titles when the started and hung on for a year until it just got blah - even checked out 2nd generation titles - the first, soujourn, ruse, now el cazador

 

when it came time that i tired of them, I sold them in sets and barely broke even - there is NO appreciation potential for Crossgen - once I realized that I bailed out as other retailer acquaintances whose opinions I trusted did the same. Cut sll ties and don't look back - I feel more comfortable sinking my money in marvel/dc off the shelf every week rather than CrossGen. crossgen was exprimenting with unorthodox methods, doing everything to set themselves apart from the big two. I mean promoting tpbs and comic dvds - what's up with that? i'd chalk it up to bad timing as the comic public is not receptive to these "radical" ideas now. they want to shake things up where folks are looking for stability.

 

also, I know they tried to get perez exclusive for a year? Why? they can't make enough money with their business model to lure any real talent exclusively for any significant amout of time.

 

I say good bye and good riddance to CrossGen. this comic expriment was a total failure with no memorable creations. Let the talent free to go back to the major companies, working on established titles and characters. hopefully Future Comix is next on the chopping block...

 

[Rip]

I gave Ruse a shot, it did have some really good writing. But after a while I got bored.

Dropped it. Next book on the chopping block Authority.......but that's another story

[Darthdiesel]

Talk in Wizard this month about Authority and other Wildstorm titles crossing over into the DC continuity in order to "bring that certain something" that Wildstorm provides into the mainstream attention?

[DiceX]

Talk in Wizard this month about Authority and other Wildstorm titles crossing over into the DC continuity in order to "bring that certain something" that Wildstorm provides into the mainstream attention?

 

***Flashback to "Deathmate"***

[Darthdiesel]

Image Valaint crossover - Deathmate Black had first app of Fairchild? from GEn 13?

[Ares]

Image Valaint crossover - Deathmate Black had first app of Fairchild? from GEn 13?

I thought all of GEN 13 had first apperances in that issue.

 

[DiceX]

Image Valaint crossover - Deathmate Black had first app of Fairchild? from GEn 13?

I thought all of GEN 13 had first apperances in that issue.

 

Yeah. But who cares about the rest of them?

Fairchild...hubba hubba!

 

What I was getting at was Deathmate was basically the straw that broke Valiant's back.

Darth, I'm sure you were just being facetious.

[Kevin Boyd]

Deathmate was one of the straws that broke not only Valiant's back, but Rob Liefeld's, most of image, and pretty much the entire industry.

 

The sad thing about Deathmate was that the Valiant side of the crossover was completed and shipped on time. The image side was so horribly late that the fans lost interest and dealers were stuck with UNSELLABLE product.

 

Those horrible miscalculations, criminal lateness and greedy solicitations for product that hadn't even been starting nearly killed more than just Valiant. For a while it was a staple of the image success story. Heck, Todd McFarlane still does it.. how many months behind is Spawn? And yet they still advertize a new issue in each and every Previews to keep that order money flowing.

 

As for Crossgen, I didn't read their books, but I didn't dislike them either. I buy a lot of comics and not once was I ever tempted to buy one of theirs. Not even one by George Perez. I did get the first four Sojourn trades in a charity auction this summer in NYC for next to nothing. It was pretty good, but I still haven't been inspired to get any of the others.

 

But like Valiant, Crossgen expanded too quickly. They have too many books selling next to nothing to make continued publication worthwhile. The library program, the big convention set-ups, the t-shirts, the gimmicks, the DVDs... too much too quickly. How could they not get burned? They have yet to show any kind of method to their madness. If a book isn't selling, no matter what you do or how good you think it is.... cancel it and put it out of it's misery.

 

I just can't wait to see George Perez back on a monthly book at Marvel or DC again. And I'm curious to see what Brandon Peterson and Greg Land could do, both of them showed tremendous growth artistically while at CrossGen.

 

Kev

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

Darth, I'm sure you were just being facetious.

 

no...I was literally flashing back - I dug it up! Deathmate Black has some of the best female forms drawn in it! You are right on with Fairchild - you have both Silvestri and Lee in here among others Potacio, Brandon Peterson, 10 years ago in their adolescent prime, collaborating on the hottest bods ever...

[Darthdiesel]

Kev - definite parallels can be drawn between the two and I totally suport the "Too Much, Too Soon" conept you laid out.

 

Just some side notes:

 

Spawn moving to Top Cow. Maybe it won't be as late? Look forward to more Spawn Witchblade crossovers - and if Spawn can get into a Soul Calibur game, maybe there's hope for more Top Cow staples to enter the fighting arena - Witchblade's Sara Pezzini? I would totally drool over a Street Fighter match between Turner's Fathom and Green's Aphrodite IX

 

Perez may be stuck in between companies - doing JLA/Avengers, the Teen titans/New Mutants, and then the remaining team company crossover genre to death ...

 

Greg Land would make a good back up to Greg Horn if Horn ever left...similar styles IMO

 

[DiceX]

I will say this about Crossgen.

They have the most kickass colorists of all the publishers combined.

[AlexH]

4 words:

 

Greg Land - Wonder Woman

 

[500Club]

I just can't wait to see George Perez back on a monthly book at Marvel or DC again. And I'm curious to see what Brandon Peterson and Greg Land could do, both of them showed tremendous growth artistically while at CrossGen.

 

It's sad to see CrossGen in trouble, as Alessi has been quite committed to the industry, but I agree with this 100%, kev.

[awe4one]

when it came time that i tired of them, I sold them in sets and barely broke even - there is NO appreciation potential for Crossgen - once I realized that I bailed out as other retailer acquaintances whose opinions I trusted did the same. Cut sll ties and don't look back - I feel more comfortable sinking my money in marvel/dc off the shelf every week rather than CrossGen.

 

Is their appreciation the only reason you buy new comics Darth?

 

crossgen was exprimenting with unorthodox methods, doing everything to set themselves apart from the big two. I mean promoting tpbs and comic dvds - what's up with that? i'd chalk it up to bad timing as the comic public is not receptive to these "radical" ideas now. they want to shake things up where folks are looking for stability.

 

What do you expect a new publisher to do? Just sit back and not promote? They attempted new projects and tried to get into new areas. That is GOOD for the industry. The current established business model is slowly dying so why follow Marvel and DC's lead? Their attempts may not have been successful but at least they tried which is more than the others can say.

 

And I'd suggest that maybe there is a slow resistance to superhero comics if the sliding numbers are to be believed. Why not try something new and see if it sticks. CG tried to publish various different genres. No..they weren't successful. But it was definitely worth a try and they should be applauded vs. slammed for attempting to branch out.

 

also, I know they tried to get perez exclusive for a year? Why? they can't make enough money with their business model to lure any real talent exclusively for any significant amout of time.

 

What? Tell me how this is different than having the Kubert brothers exclusive to Marvel? Or Jim Lee exclusive to DC? Or any of the many artists that have recently signed exclusive contracts with the two? Sounds like you're looking for reasons to slam CG......

 

I say good bye and good riddance to CrossGen. this comic expriment was a total failure with no memorable creations.

 

I disagree strongly. What's your qualification of memorable? I liked their characters and bet that 10 years down the road people will go back and rediscover them a'la Valiant.

 

Also, they put the Big Two on notice that you can put out a quality product on time month after month. I have far less sympathy for late shipping product from Marvel/DC because CG highlighted the fallacy of their late shipping arguments.

 

Let the talent free to go back to the major companies, working on established titles and characters. hopefully Future Comix is next on the chopping block...

 

I don't wish for the failure of any comic companies. We need as many of them as possible to be successful or I fear for the future.....

 

 

Jim

[Kevin Boyd]

and if Spawn can get into a Soul Calibur game, maybe there's hope for more Top Cow staples to enter the fighting arena - Witchblade's Sara Pezzini? I would totally drool over a Street Fighter match between Turner's Fathom and Green's Aphrodite IX

 

That MIGHT be a way to get those characters out into the public eye. Let's have an Indyclix version of a videogame - it would have to be a fighting game.

 

It would be great promotion in getting smaller press characters out into the spotlight with kids and young adults. Each character would get a focus animation on their backstory and a fight could take place in their "world'.

 

They could call it COMIC BOOK CROSSOVERS - BATTLE ROYALE or something.

 

If Top Cow just did their own characters they could have Cyberforce characters, Witchblade, The Darkness, Magdalena, Aphrodite IX, maybe Lara Croft (on loan), and others. For fun they could also include other image mainstays Savage Dragon and Spawn.

 

Why we have only Marvel vs. Street Fighter in this kind of format is silly. DC and Marvel should have games like this out already.

 

Kev

[harveyfan323]

As others have said, the current comic book market just can't support another publisher that tries to grow as quickly as Crossgen. I thought that the Crossgen books looked like they had nice production values, but I never really considered buying one because the stories didn't interest me.

 

Wizard has been hyping Crossgen like crazy from the start...I wonder how much Crossgen had to pay them to do this? Wizard's hype always seemed out of place, because it was a new company and didn't seem that extraordinary to me. It is like Wizard hyping that HeroClix game that I doubt anyone cares about.

 

Anyway, it is sad to see such a noble experiment begin to fail, but I guess that is the marketplace for you. Maybe they can hold one with 2 or 3 core titles that sell well and then build slowly from there?

[Darthdiesel]

Is their appreciation the only reason you buy new comics Darth?

 

obviously not, as I love to discuss them here. I'm also an obsessive completionist and it physically hurtd to cut the title out of my monthly before complete because it sucked. resale value is important once you tire of them, whether it's 2, 10 or 20 years down the road

 

What do you expect a new publisher to do? Just sit back and not promote? They attempted new projects and tried to get into new areas. That is GOOD for the industry. The current established business model is slowly dying so why follow Marvel and DC's lead? Their attempts may not have been successful but at least they tried which is more than the others can say.

 

No, never had issue with their promotions, just what they were promoting in the end. I still say for the time being, all lucrative efforts worth promoting are in the monthly pamphlet. Crossgen looking to promote tpbs of unproven material was ludicrous. What is good for the industry is that crossgen showed them what NOT to do in order to set up a comics imprint. Funny that you say that the big two's model is currently dying, yet we are all here drooling over dc's exclusive contracts in the next few years and whatever ideas come from quesada/jemas and the talent they find to support it.

 

but, yes i give them (crossgen) an A for effort - they got folks excited, but equally disappointed when they had turned their back on the reader and realized they had to employ some of the tried and true business practices to stay afloat

 

And I'd suggest that maybe there is a slow resistance to superhero comics if the sliding numbers are to be believed. Why not try something new and see if it sticks. CG tried to publish various different genres. No..they weren't successful. But it was definitely worth a try and they should be applauded vs. slammed for attempting to branch out.

 

I'm just saying that they had bad timing; they should have realized that the market would not be receptive to some of the products they were pushing...

 

What? Tell me how this is different than having the Kubert brothers exclusive to Marvel? Or Jim Lee exclusive to DC? Or any of the many artists that have recently signed exclusive contracts with the two? Sounds like you're looking for reasons to slam CG......

 

usually they can make the exclusive contracts work due to the innovativenew projects planned or hype around hot creators, but inevitably it's the $$$. Crossgen was reeling after their guarantee program (1st 4 issue of all 4 startup titles could be returned no questions asked), they were promoting Perez exclusivity to Crossgen as hype deal, but had nothing for him to work on. He had done some unrecognized work in a Crossgen Quarterly title nd then based on this, they want him to work on his own series when the current ones sucked? where's the logic? why not bring him on board to fix one of the 1st 4 titles.

as for slamming CG, I don't need to look for reasons The end result will do the slamming for me when they go the Chaos way..

 

I disagree strongly. What's your qualification of memorable? I liked their characters and bet that 10 years down the road people will go back and rediscover them a'la Valiant.

 

If you can get on board with an entire universe based on and created around a yin-yang logo and the philosophical implications that makes, then good for you, good luck and enjoy your crossgen. I, for one, am glad I'm no longer wasting my time and $ on Crossgen and their characters. My Personal feelings, just putting it out there, nothing more.

 

Also, they put the Big Two on notice that you can put out a quality product on time month after month. I have far less sympathy for late shipping product from Marvel/DC because CG highlighted the fallacy of their late shipping arguments.

 

Didn't crossgen admit to shipping problems of late. 2 years into their creation, already shipping problems? I know happens, but when readers/retailers count on that setting them apart from the big 2- they will react in an unkind manner. I don't condone the lateness from the big two either, but they have such a plethora of stable popular titles that I can move on and busy myself with another title. Daredevil the target, spidy/black cat - not missing them? busy reading hush, bats/supes, 1602, supreme power, etc.

 

I don't wish for the failure of any comic companies. We need as many of them as possible to be successful or I fear for the future.....

 

 

Jim

 

Why Jim? Sometime too much choice can be detrimental, especially if the choices are weaker for it. Dilution of the market revenue to terrible projects hurtrs the industry more. Just because it was different is not enough..it should be good as well. Quality, not quantity plays a factor here. Maybe this will force the talent from Crossgen to step up and present projects to the big two that are worthy of the readers time? I loved Crossgen art, I will always admire and praise them for it. The writing/plot premise, and business model...well, we see where that lead.

 

Don't take this as an attack on Crossgen. I'm just calling it as I see it, albeit from my limited point of view as a former Crossgen customer, who also had hopes of their success but was sorely disappointed a year after they were out, enough to make me swear off Crossgen forever.

 

The good thing about them closing shop...their back issues can't get any cheaper and they will have the same collecting appeal as Valiant and Atlas - you can actually complete the set in a years time with minimal cost

[Darthdiesel]

and if Spawn can get into a Soul Calibur game, maybe there's hope for more Top Cow staples to enter the fighting arena - Witchblade's Sara Pezzini? I would totally drool over a Street Fighter match between Turner's Fathom and Green's Aphrodite IX

 

That MIGHT be a way to get those characters out into the public eye. Let's have an Indyclix version of a videogame - it would have to be a fighting game.

 

It would be great promotion in getting smaller press characters out into the spotlight with kids and young adults. Each character would get a focus animation on their backstory and a fight could take place in their "world'.

 

They could call it COMIC BOOK CROSSOVERS - BATTLE ROYALE or something.

 

If Top Cow just did their own characters they could have Cyberforce characters, Witchblade, The Darkness, Magdalena, Aphrodite IX, maybe Lara Croft (on loan), and others. For fun they could also include other image mainstays Savage Dragon and Spawn.

 

Why we have only Marvel vs. Street Fighter in this kind of format is silly. DC and Marvel should have games like this out already.

 

Kev

 

 

I love it! You know about Tomb Raider and EIDOS...they used Top Cow to promote their new Angel of Darkness game with a corresponding story arc in the current comic series with double covers - some of the sexiest Hughes and Tony Daniel's work, imo- and used it to promote the new male counterpart for Lara, who makes his debut as a playable character in the game. it brought me back to Atari2600 and Centipede, and how there was a video game platform and comic book collaboration to promote the idea. I hope to see more of that in the future. I was always a good preface to starting the video game to read all about the character first in a graphic entertaining format. Sometines, the comic would have hints on what you were supposed to do in the game.