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"The Pressing Debate" all boils down to differing 'belief systems'

Started by showcase4,

785 posts in this topic

showcase4

showcase4

Posted
Posted

 

Debates and discussions on politics and religion often end in heated exchanges......this is due primarily to differing belief systems. Our hobby is experiencing the same issue. If pressing ( keeping disclosure out of it for a moment - whole different issue ) is restoration to you ( as an example ), but not to me ( as another example ) then right from the start, we have a problem, albeit philosophical in nature. We each think "how can he really believe that to be true?", and when you multiply these 2 belief systems by the thousands of people on either side of the aisle within our hobby, then you have a compounded situation.

 

Let's look at an example..........

everyone in the hobby ( that I know of ) views color touch as restoration. Is color touch restoration as a fact?...no. Color touch being a form of restoration is an opinion, but, it is an opinion shared by let's say 100% of people in the hobby, so everyone is on the same page.......this lets the hobby treat this "belief" as a fact in practice....it is undisputed. Staples being made out of metal is a fact / not a belief ( to further the point )

 

now comes pressing.....some believe it is restoration with great conviction i.e. any attempt / process done to a book to enhance its appearance, and alter it from its present state is restoration. -- this school of thought would treat pressing as a fact, since it meets this definition -- although in reality this is a belief.

Other school of thought -- pressing is not restoration as no materials are being added to or taken from a book...the process is unobtrusive....is this a fact --- no, once again it is a belief.

 

So, my point is, unless and until 100% of the hobby gets on the same page / same beliefs with regards to pressings place in our hobby, just like with religion and politics, there will be ongoing conflicts and disharmony that in theory will never, ever, ever end.

 

Steve

 

 

 

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted

Steve,

 

I've got a fair amount of agreement with this...and have also concluded that it will never be solved, nor ever go away as a debate.

 

However, one observation...I find it curious that the people who stand to make the most $$$ out of pressing...the dealers, the pressers, the auction houses, CGC...are also the ones that possess a different belief system to myself.

 

Chicken or egg? (shrug)

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arexcrooke

arexcrooke

Posted
Posted
Steve,

 

I've got a fair amount of agreement with this...and have also concluded that it will never be solved, nor ever go away as a debate.

 

However, one observation...I find it curious that the people who stand to make the most $$$ out of pressing...the dealers, the pressers, the auction houses, CGC...are also the ones that possess a different belief system to myself.

 

Chicken or egg? (shrug)

I do as well Nick. It seems that it is an either or proposition.

 

ive got an opinion on your statement above, but want to have time to make a semi-cognizant response. So ill leave it to later this afternoon.

 

Arex

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Steve,

 

I've got a fair amount of agreement with this...and have also concluded that it will never be solved, nor ever go away as a debate.

 

However, one observation...I find it curious that the people who stand to make the most $$$ out of pressing...the dealers, the pressers, the auction houses, CGC...are also the ones that possess a different belief system to myself.

 

Chicken or egg? (shrug)

I do as well Nick. It seems that it is an either or proposition.

 

ive got an opinion on your statement above, but want to have time to make a semi-cognizant response. So ill leave it to later this afternoon.

 

Arex

 

I agree, Arex...there are collectors on either side of the debate.

 

However, the point I was making was that the vast majority of 'vested interest' parties don't believe pressing is resto. True belief, or convenience? (shrug)

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He11blazer

He11blazer

Posted
Posted

I know you guys have done this issue to death, but forgive me for asking a 'noob' question:

 

Does this 'professional pressing' have an effect different to leaving a comic under a pile of books for a week?

 

Can this treatment be conclusively detected afterwards?

 

If so, then for me it is restoration.

 

If someone like Susan Ciccone can examine a comic and say 'this has been mechanically pressed' then yes, it is restoration.

 

If the paper fibres show, under microscopic examination, that they have been subjected to unnaturally high heat and pressure, then yes it is restoration. The comic has been damaged by the process and bears its scars, however nice it now looks.

 

There must be a point where the pressure has a permanent detectable effect on the structure of the paper. This is the point at which it becomes resto.

 

I'll shut up now 2c:foryou:

 

 

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Does this 'professional pressing' have an effect different to leaving a comic under a pile of books for a week?

 

A world of difference. Like comparing a mouse to a mammoth.

 

Can this treatment be conclusively detected afterwards?

 

In some cases, yes. In others, no.

 

If so, then for me it is restoration.

 

If someone like Susan Ciccone can examine a comic and say 'this has been mechanically pressed' then yes, it is restoration.

 

She claims that she can with many, many books.

 

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He11blazer

He11blazer

Posted
Posted
Does this 'professional pressing' have an effect different to leaving a comic under a pile of books for a week?

 

A world of difference. Like comparing a mouse to a mammoth.

 

Can this treatment be conclusively detected afterwards?

 

In some cases, yes. In others, no.

 

If so, then for me it is restoration.

 

If someone like Susan Ciccone can examine a comic and say 'this has been mechanically pressed' then yes, it is restoration.

 

She claims that she can with many, many books.

 

 

That's interesting, thanks!

 

How much pressure in p/si are we talking about here? I assume this would be done to pages separately. To crush the whole comic under high pressure would... well... crush it!

 

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Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted

Debates and discussions on politics and religion often end in heated exchanges......this is due primarily to differing belief systems. Our hobby is experiencing the same issue. If pressing ( keeping disclosure out of it for a moment - whole different issue ) is restoration to you ( as an example ), but not to me ( as another example ) then right from the start, we have a problem, albeit philosophical in nature. We each think "how can he really believe that to be true?", and when you multiply these 2 belief systems by the thousands of people on either side of the aisle within our hobby, then you have a compounded situation.

 

Let's look at an example..........

everyone in the hobby ( that I know of ) views color touch as restoration. Is color touch restoration as a fact?...no. Color touch being a form of restoration is an opinion, but, it is an opinion shared by let's say 100% of people in the hobby, so everyone is on the same page.......this lets the hobby treat this "belief" as a fact in practice....it is undisputed. Staples being made out of metal is a fact / not a belief ( to further the point )

 

now comes pressing.....some believe it is restoration with great conviction i.e. any attempt / process done to a book to enhance its appearance, and alter it from its present state is restoration. -- this school of thought would treat pressing as a fact, since it meets this definition -- although in reality this is a belief.

Other school of thought -- pressing is not restoration as no materials are being added to or taken from a book...the process is unobtrusive....is this a fact --- no, once again it is a belief.

 

So, my point is, unless and until 100% of the hobby gets on the same page / same beliefs with regards to pressings place in our hobby, just like with religion and politics, there will be ongoing conflicts and disharmony that in theory will never, ever, ever end.

 

Steve

 

 

 

I think the issue of whether pressing should be "disclosed" is the more practical issue to examine. I think if you explained to collectors what the "range" of pressing treatments includes (including disassembly and press - which has gotten CGC's blessing apparently), thoroughly disseminated that information throughout the hobby, and then took a poll....I believe that an overwhelming majority of serious collectors would insist on disclosure.

 

To lump all levels of pressing treatments together is also not the best approach. I still think any treatment of a book should be disclosed, but there is a vast difference between the spot pressing of a ncb crease in the front corner of a book, and a complete disassembly.

 

And, as Nick noted, I am constantly amused that the parties assuring us that pressing is not restoration, are in most cases, the parties profiting from the practice.

 

Level playing field please. Level playing field.

 

btw.....Donut, in your role as a board moderator, what kind of powers do you have at hand to reign in this kind of dialogue?

 

 

 

 

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
Yay! Another pressing thread!
Dont people get tired of talking about the same mess over and over and over (shrug)

Some people like to stir up sh*t and read themselves over and over again. It gives them a feeling of self importance. Most of these people end up joining organizations to help give their cause legitimacy.

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