What Constitutes Modern OA

[Pirate]

There are many creators now who pencil pages/use computer and send scans to their inkers to be done. Which piece is the original art? The pencils or the inked page that is published off the scans? Is it fair for the inker to sell the page as OA and then the finished pencils from the artist? Should there be new vocabulary such as Original Published Page or Original Pencil art?

 

I know with older era's if a page was lightboxed or inked over bluelines it was the equivalent of a PLOD, now with modern technologies, it appears there aren't many pages that are inked over original pencils.

 

discuss among yourselves

[Pirate]

should i have put the pressing in the title?

[boomtown]

should i have put the pressing in the title?

 

I think pressing is a personal choice.

 

 

 

On a side note, I try to avoid the whole pencil/ink/photoshop art for the reasons you mention. I really like a bunch of stuff that Bradstreet does but it drives me crazy that there are pencils & blue lined ink final pieces & then the colored versions on top of that. Throw the work from Loveless & Dark Towers in with that. Hell, I'm just getting comfortable with buying art without the lettering done on it. It really has come to the point that you have to specify "does the art have the actual pencil lines from the artist?" when ordering.

 

Mark

[mister_not_so_nice]

I don't see a problem with pressing OA

 

There are many creators now who pencil pages/use computer and send scans to their inkers to be done. Which piece is the original art? The pencils or the inked page that is published off the scans? - They're both original. One is original pencils, the other is original inks.

 

 

Is it fair for the inker to sell the page as OA and then the finished pencils from the artist? - Sure. As long as he clarifies (didn't want to use 'discloses') what he is selling and the buyer knows what they are buying.

 

 

Should there be new vocabulary such as Original Published Page or Original Pencil art? - Sure. Whatever you want to call it. I classify everything is two catagories. 1)What I collect, 2) The rest of that carp.

 

As with every other facet of this hobby, 99% of it comes down to personnal preference. Bradstreet is a good example as mentioned earlier. He has done a few HELLBLAZER covers I would love to own. But the fact of the three versions is just a turn off for me(and each one is $700 and up.) Some people don't mind, that's thier preference.

 

In SDCC07 I was looking at some inked pages for I forget which book, not one I ussually collect, but great art. The prices were very good ($70 for a splash I believe). I asked, and found out they were the inks on printed blueline pencils. That's all I needed to hear. But if you didn't mind, some great art for affordable prices.

 

Mike

[rob_allan]

 

Is it fair for the inker to sell the page as OA and then the finished pencils from the artist? - Sure. As long as he clarifies (didn't want to use 'discloses') what he is selling and the buyer knows what they are buying.

 

Mike

 

So it's all about disclosure, then? Hmmmm. What else in this thread does that remind me of...

 

Pirate-- you ask a good question. And I think it would be nice to have a concensus. Because a page from 20 years ago-- I know if I'm buying OA or a color guide. But now? Heck, I just bought a piece of OA and now reading your post I just realized I don't know what I have...

 

-Rob-

[Jesusjon]

discuss among yourselves

 

There are some older threads with some discussion. This topic comes up more and more lately, in the modern era, as you can imagine!

[LordZarak]

I brought up this topic not that long ago as I have two pieces of OA (one pencils, and one inked) for the same published page. I too am curious which is held in higher regards.

[Pirate]

It almost has come to the point if it hasn't already where we need a database of modern artists and how they produce their art. it's a pain but if I'm paying big money for a page and then find out there are pencils, inked scan, prelim, thumbnail etc out there being sold for the same page, that aggravating.

[Ares]

I consider the pencils as the true OA since it is the first creation of the art...

 

The inking (in its simplest term) is just tracing over the pencils.

[Pirate]

but the inks are the published page and what most reps sell. So if i have the inked cover to ion #1 and the penciled cover to the same book, you would want the pencils for normal cover pricing?

 

What about the artists who include the penciled and ink versions for the price? Good discussion, I like these type of topics.

[Jesusjon]

It almost has come to the point if it hasn't already where we need a database of modern artists and how they produce their art. it's a pain but if I'm paying big money for a page and then find out there are pencils, inked scan, prelim, thumbnail etc out there being sold for the same page, that aggravating.

 

If anyone is paying big bucks for a piece of OA, the best advice is for folks to do their homework on the method used to produce the art for publishing. Caveat emptor!

 

I've found that artists are happy to discuss the method they use to achieve the final product. Just beware those who would try to sell you something without the aforementioned "full disclosure"!

[Ares]

but the inks are the published page and what most reps sell. So if i have the inked cover to ion #1 and the penciled cover to the same book, you would want the pencils for normal cover pricing?

 

What about the artists who include the penciled and ink versions for the price? Good discussion, I like these type of topics.

 

If you had the cover to ION #1 I'd Keeeeelll you!!!

 

I would want the pencils since its the foundation of the final piece. Even looking at inks people will still see the Ivan Reis art foundation

 

Besides with teh pencils you will see any changes made. Hence the Original aspect to it

[Pirate]

what if they charge you $500 for the pencil cover and then the inker gives away the inked version to his buddy?

[Pirate]

It almost has come to the point if it hasn't already where we need a database of modern artists and how they produce their art. it's a pain but if I'm paying big money for a page and then find out there are pencils, inked scan, prelim, thumbnail etc out there being sold for the same page, that aggravating.

 

If anyone is paying big bucks for a piece of OA, the best advice is for folks to do their homework on the method used to produce the art for publishing. Caveat emptor!

 

I've found that artists are happy to discuss the method they use to achieve the final product. Just beware those who would try to sell you something without the aforementioned "full disclosure"!

 

Of course you do your homework, I was just curious to what constitutes what in everyone's eyes since the modern age has charged OA. I am currently buying a piece where the artist is giving me the prelims, original pencils and the inked version which is awesome as the guy is stand up.

 

On the other hand with all the technology and how small the world really is, I doubt many would try to double dip so to speak as it's too easy to get caught and be outed. I see alot of pencils advertised as prelims while the inked is the final sale version. Just interesting discussion.

[Ares]

what if they charge you $500 for the pencil cover and then the inker gives away the inked version to his buddy?

 

Personally I'd still take the pencils.

[shiverbones]

I am kinda glad I don't care for much modern art, I would be dissapointed if I had to deal with that. I like word Balloons, I like 1 page with pencils & inks. I am old fashioned I guess. I was looking at some Fegredo Hellboy pages, and at least with those you get both the pencil page & ink page, but still it's not the same to me.

[Rodey]

So confused. So one of pieces from 1990 has the black ink, but underneath is some light silvery ink. It looks like the artist did a rough sketch since the ink lines don't follow the silvery lines. I would post a pic, but it doesn't show up.

 

So is this a prelim, pencil, and ink all in one?

[mrpunch0]

Here's how bluelined / lightboxed pages break down for me:

 

Pencils = Original pencils

Inked = Published art

 

Which is more desired?

 

1) Can I have both?

2) I like the look of inked pages better - so I'd opt for that.

3) If I like the penciller - but he had a carpy inker? I'll go for the pencils.

4) If it's a nobody penciller - but the inker is well known (say P. Craig Russell) I'll opt for the inks.

 

It's all just the personal preference of the buyer.

[jonjesper]

I consider the pencils as the true OA since it is the first creation of the art...

 

The inking (in its simplest term) is just tracing over the pencils.

 

I said the same thing to Pirate on the phone...

 

ORIGINAL ART where did the art originate...from the pencil on blank paper...

[Mighty Hal]

I consider the pencils as the true OA since it is the first creation of the art...

 

The inking (in its simplest term) is just tracing over the pencils.

 

I disagree with you, Ares. With the right guy doing the inking, you've got something special. If you've ever seen anything inked by Wally Wood, for example, you know that the original artwork suddenly got a whole lot better.

 

Since penciled work carries so little visual impact, I won't collect it. Yet. With more and more artists doing only penciled work -- especially when the penciled work is being darkened via computer -- I may be forced to change my mind in the future if I absolutely adore the artwork and the book.

 

As the market currently stands, does the original artist get to sell the pencils...and the inker get to sell the inks?

 

And, boomtown, you wrote: it drives me crazy that there are pencils & blue lined ink final pieces & then the colored versions on top of that. Throw the work from Loveless & Dark Towers in with that.

 

I don't know anything about Loveless but I thought that the Dark Towers stuff went directly from Lee's pencils. Not true?