Marvel Comics 1 not keeping pace?

[homerwannabee]

I personally believe that it is a mistake to spend a ton of money on AF#15. I believe there are a ton more people holding an AF#15 than anything like a Action#1, Superman#1, or Marvel#1. When all is said and done I would not be surprised if 5 or 6 more 9.6 AF#15's come to market. And I would not even be surprised if a couple 9.8's sprung up as well.

[rob_react]

I have to tell you price wise or historically wise Marvel 1 isnt in the # 3 spot overall, Superman # 1 is..Grade for grade superman # 1 is more valuable in every grade catagory that it has sold in.In my opinion an 8.5 superman # 1 would at least sell the equivelent of a 9.6 Marvel 1...Consider 8.5 would probably be the best copy to so this is arguable at the very least

 

I'm with you here. To me, the best Superman #1 should be more valuable than anything but the top Action #1s or Detective #27s.

 

Which is scary when coupled with the Church AA16 speculation that's going on.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I have to tell you price wise or historically wise Marvel 1 isnt in the # 3 spot overall, Superman # 1 is..Grade for grade superman # 1 is more valuable in every grade catagory that it has sold in.In my opinion an 8.5 superman # 1 would at least sell the equivelent of a 9.6 Marvel 1...Consider 8.5 would probably be the best copy to so this is arguable at the very least

 

I'm with you here. To me, the best Superman #1 should be more valuable than anything but the top Action #1s or Detective #27s.

 

Which is scary when coupled with the Church AA16 speculation that's going on.

 

 

I think the primary reason for the Supes #1 rise in value is relative rarity and not because it is a key. Iconic cover for sure but MC #1 is a bigger key, it's just more plentiful in hi grade. Had the grade availability been the same I think MC #1 would edge it out into #3 spot.

 

R.

 

 

[joe_collector]

I personally believe that it is a mistake to spend a ton of money on AF#15. I believe there are a ton more people holding an AF#15 than anything like a Action#1, Superman#1, or Marvel#1.

 

While we'll probably never know the numbers, due to hoarders, that is exactly true. Just go back and re-read all the OS reports and count the sheer number of references to high-grade AF 15's. Or go talk to a few long-time dealers and ask how many 9.X copies of AF 15 they have sold, seen or otherwise have known of.

 

Sure, some NM's will be VF and some will have resto, but the number has got to be much larger than the current Census, and they are out there somewhere - but as many like to say, if they never come up for sale, then who cares?

[rob_react]

I have to tell you price wise or historically wise Marvel 1 isnt in the # 3 spot overall, Superman # 1 is..Grade for grade superman # 1 is more valuable in every grade catagory that it has sold in.In my opinion an 8.5 superman # 1 would at least sell the equivelent of a 9.6 Marvel 1...Consider 8.5 would probably be the best copy to so this is arguable at the very least

 

I'm with you here. To me, the best Superman #1 should be more valuable than anything but the top Action #1s or Detective #27s.

 

Which is scary when coupled with the Church AA16 speculation that's going on.

 

 

I think the primary reason for the Supes #1 rise in value is relative rarity and not because it is a key. Iconic cover for sure but MC #1 is a bigger key, it's just more plentiful in hi grade. Had the grade availability been the same I think MC #1 would edge it out into #3 spot.

 

R.

 

 

I agree. It's just the high grade availability disparity is so great between the two books. I've never had anyone definitively say to me that a 9.0 or better Superman #1 even exists (the best copy has been quoted as 8.5 to 9.2) and the next best copy I've been able to verify is the MH, which is "only" an 8.0 (and has had some work done on it- which was later removed.) Compare that to the crowd at the top for Marvel #1. Marvel #1 at the top is practically like a Silver Age book.

[heinlein99]

I have to tell you price wise or historically wise Marvel 1 isnt in the # 3 spot overall, Superman # 1 is..Grade for grade superman # 1 is more valuable in every grade catagory that it has sold in.In my opinion an 8.5 superman # 1 would at least sell the equivelent of a 9.6 Marvel 1...Consider 8.5 would probably be the best copy to so this is arguable at the very least

 

I'm with you here. To me, the best Superman #1 should be more valuable than anything but the top Action #1s or Detective #27s.

 

Which is scary when coupled with the Church AA16 speculation that's going on.

 

 

I think the primary reason for the Supes #1 rise in value is relative rarity and not because it is a key. Iconic cover for sure but MC #1 is a bigger key, it's just more plentiful in hi grade. Had the grade availability been the same I think MC #1 would edge it out into #3 spot.

 

R.

 

 

I'm too lazy to check, but is Superman #1 the first comic title devoted to a specific character who had been introduced in another title?

[G.A.tor]

I have to tell you price wise or historically wise Marvel 1 isnt in the # 3 spot overall, Superman # 1 is..Grade for grade superman # 1 is more valuable in every grade catagory that it has sold in.In my opinion an 8.5 superman # 1 would at least sell the equivelent of a 9.6 Marvel 1...Consider 8.5 would probably be the best copy to so this is arguable at the very least

 

I'm with you here. To me, the best Superman #1 should be more valuable than anything but the top Action #1s or Detective #27s.

 

Which is scary when coupled with the Church AA16 speculation that's going on.

 

 

I think the primary reason for the Supes #1 rise in value is relative rarity and not because it is a key. Iconic cover for sure but MC #1 is a bigger key, it's just more plentiful in hi grade. Had the grade availability been the same I think MC #1 would edge it out into #3 spot.

 

R.

 

 

I'm too lazy to check, but is Superman #1 the first comic title devoted to a specific character who had been introduced in another title?

I believe he is indeed...with amazing man not too far behind (like a month)

[VintageComics]

I have to tell you price wise or historically wise Marvel 1 isnt in the # 3 spot overall, Superman # 1 is..Grade for grade superman # 1 is more valuable in every grade catagory that it has sold in.In my opinion an 8.5 superman # 1 would at least sell the equivelent of a 9.6 Marvel 1...Consider 8.5 would probably be the best copy to so this is arguable at the very least

 

I'm with you here. To me, the best Superman #1 should be more valuable than anything but the top Action #1s or Detective #27s.

 

Which is scary when coupled with the Church AA16 speculation that's going on.

 

 

I think the primary reason for the Supes #1 rise in value is relative rarity and not because it is a key. Iconic cover for sure but MC #1 is a bigger key, it's just more plentiful in hi grade. Had the grade availability been the same I think MC #1 would edge it out into #3 spot.

 

R.

 

 

I'm too lazy to check, but is Superman #1 the first comic title devoted to a specific character who had been introduced in another title?

I believe he is indeed...with amazing man not too far behind (like a month)

 

What are the months and years? I know my Special Edition Comics was printed in 08/40 (First Issue devoted to Captain Marvel)

 

Edit: Never mind. Supes was '39, Bats #1 was Spring '40.

 

ps. Who's Amazing Man?

 

R.

 

 

[the blob]

I know we're talking about 9.6 copies and you can't even bring LG books into the discussion, but how can a book (AF 15) that was offered to me for $500 by one of the guys working for either Four Color or Metropolis at a show 10 or so years possibly be in the running with those HTF megabooks? Granted, it was about 2.5, but still....

[VintageComics]

I know we're talking about 9.6 copies and you can't even bring LG books into the discussion, but how can a book (AF 15) that was offered to me for $500 by one of the guys working for either Four Color or Metropolis at a show 10 or so years possibly be in the running with those HTF megabooks? Granted, it was about 2.5, but still....

 

Because the book has surpassed FF #1 as THE big SA key and is selling well over guide in every grade.

Didn't a 7.5 just sell for $43,000? That is GA key territory right there.

 

R.

 

 

[MutantKeys]

When was the last time you saw a 9.0 or better FF 1 available?

 

 

[VintageComics]

I haven't. Good point. But in lower grades AF #15 has over taken FF #1. Just looking at GPA sales in 6.5/6.5/7.0 confirms this.

 

I sold an AF #15 in 6.0 and could not believe the prices that book has reached in all grades.

 

 

R.

 

 

[DKeeneman]

I have to tell you price wise or historically wise Marvel 1 isnt in the # 3 spot overall, Superman # 1 is..Grade for grade superman # 1 is more valuable in every grade catagory that it has sold in.In my opinion an 8.5 superman # 1 would at least sell the equivelent of a 9.6 Marvel 1...Consider 8.5 would probably be the best copy to so this is arguable at the very least

 

I'm with you here. To me, the best Superman #1 should be more valuable than anything but the top Action #1s or Detective #27s.

 

Which is scary when coupled with the Church AA16 speculation that's going on.

 

 

I think the primary reason for the Supes #1 rise in value is relative rarity and not because it is a key. Iconic cover for sure but MC #1 is a bigger key, it's just more plentiful in hi grade. Had the grade availability been the same I think MC #1 would edge it out into #3 spot.

 

R.

 

 

I agree. It's just the high grade availability disparity is so great between the two books. I've never had anyone definitively say to me that a 9.0 or better Superman #1 even exists (the best copy has been quoted as 8.5 to 9.2) and the next best copy I've been able to verify is the MH, which is "only" an 8.0 (and has had some work done on it- which was later removed.) Compare that to the crowd at the top for Marvel #1. Marvel #1 at the top is practically like a Silver Age book.

 

Is there some source for this other than the CGC census? While it appears from that to be true that there are more MC 1s at thh top (2 9.0s and 1 8.5) than Superman 1s (over all, only 3 of the latter at 6.0 or above and 10 MC 1s), the sheer number of books are comparable (2 more Superman 1s overall), and there are not too many of either at any grade.

 

I would still think that with the overall scarcity and the fact that Superman 1 is not as notable as MC 1 in the sense that it did not introduce a character or create or define a company, the MC 1 should still be more valuable.

 

How do sales of Supe 1 compare to MC 1 at mid-grade?

 

I saw a mention of GPA sales of AF 6.5/6.5 and 7.0. I am not yet a member of that site. What were those sales prices?

[Aman619]

there are still lots of NM AF15s out there unslabbed. Unfortunately for those predicting a swamping of the current census above 9.0, 95% of these NMs will end up in slabs with numbers like 6.5, 7.0, 7.5, 8.0 and 8.5. CGC uses much brighter lights than dealers at conventions...

 

 

[burntboy]

I know we're talking about 9.6 copies and you can't even bring LG books into the discussion, but how can a book (AF 15) that was offered to me for $500 by one of the guys working for either Four Color or Metropolis at a show 10 or so years possibly be in the running with those HTF megabooks? Granted, it was about 2.5, but still....

 

Because the book has surpassed FF #1 as THE big SA key and is selling well over guide in every grade.

Didn't a 7.5 just sell for $43,000? That is GA key territory right there.

 

R.

 

 

Roy; that price for a 7.5 sounds way out of whack. i checked Heritage, Clink and GPA and came up with 23,500 as the top 7.5 price. when/where did this sale happen??

[rob_react]

 

Is there some source for this other than the CGC census? While it appears from that to be true that there are more MC 1s at thh top (2 9.0s and 1 8.5) than Superman 1s (over all, only 3 of the latter at 6.0 or above and 10 MC 1s), the sheer number of books are comparable (2 more Superman 1s overall), and there are not too many of either at any grade.

 

 

I would still think that with the overall scarcity and the fact that Superman 1 is not as notable as MC 1 in the sense that it did not introduce a character or create or define a company, the MC 1 should still be more valuable.

 

 

My records look like this:

 

Suprman #1:

 

Superman #1 Church 8.0 CGC sold a decade ago for 170,000

Superman #1 7.5 CGC sold by investment collectibles for 250,000

Superman #1 5.5 CGC Esquirecomics.com sale 130,000

 

Marvel #1

 

Marvel Comics #1 Denver 8.5 CGC Heritage Sale 172,500

Marvel Comics #1 Pay Copy 9.0 CGC

- Sold privately for 350,000

- then sold for 201,250 at heritage

- and finally 204,999.99

Marvel Comics #1 9.0 CGC Sold for 126,500 as CGC 8.5 161,000

 

so, 7.5 superman #1 sold for more than 8.5s and 9.0s of Marvel #1 (with the exception of the initial $350,000 sale to JP, which was inflated by the presence of JP's wallet in the room )

 

And there are the population numbers I have

Superman #1 8.0-9.2

Superman #1 Church 8.0 CGC

Superman #1 7.5 CGC

 

Marvel Comics #1 Allentown “NM”/ VF+

Marvel Comics #1 Church

Marvel Comics #1 Denver 8.5 CGC Heritage Sale 172,500

Marvel Comics #1 Chicago

Marvel Comics #1 Pay Copy 9.0 CGC

Marvel Comics #1 9.0 CGC

Marvel Comics #1 Larson 8.0

[VintageComics]

I know we're talking about 9.6 copies and you can't even bring LG books into the discussion, but how can a book (AF 15) that was offered to me for $500 by one of the guys working for either Four Color or Metropolis at a show 10 or so years possibly be in the running with those HTF megabooks? Granted, it was about 2.5, but still....

 

Because the book has surpassed FF #1 as THE big SA key and is selling well over guide in every grade.

Didn't a 7.5 just sell for $43,000? That is GA key territory right there.

 

R.

 

 

Roy; that price for a 7.5 sounds way out of whack. i checked Heritage, Clink and GPA and came up with 23,500 as the top 7.5 price. when/where did this sale happen??

 

Harry I just heard about it 2nd hand. It was a recent Comic Connect auction.

 

R>

 

 

[thedude]

 

I agree. It's just the high grade availability disparity is so great between the two books. I've never had anyone definitively say to me that a 9.0 or better Superman #1 even exists (the best copy has been quoted as 8.5 to 9.2) and the next best copy I've been able to verify is the MH, which is "only" an 8.0 (and has had some work done on it- which was later removed.) Compare that to the crowd at the top for Marvel #1. Marvel #1 at the top is practically like a Silver Age book.

 

what grade would Bangzooms copy of Supes #1 be in ? that sucker looks nice to me, it's got to be at least an 8.0 right ?

[G.A.tor]

 

I agree. It's just the high grade availability disparity is so great between the two books. I've never had anyone definitively say to me that a 9.0 or better Superman #1 even exists (the best copy has been quoted as 8.5 to 9.2) and the next best copy I've been able to verify is the MH, which is "only" an 8.0 (and has had some work done on it- which was later removed.) Compare that to the crowd at the top for Marvel #1. Marvel #1 at the top is practically like a Silver Age book.

 

what grade would Bangzooms copy of Supes #1 be in ? that sucker looks nice to me, it's got to be at least an 8.0 right ?

I have never seen a scan of BZ's?

link?

[VintageComics]

 

I agree. It's just the high grade availability disparity is so great between the two books. I've never had anyone definitively say to me that a 9.0 or better Superman #1 even exists (the best copy has been quoted as 8.5 to 9.2) and the next best copy I've been able to verify is the MH, which is "only" an 8.0 (and has had some work done on it- which was later removed.) Compare that to the crowd at the top for Marvel #1. Marvel #1 at the top is practically like a Silver Age book.

 

what grade would Bangzooms copy of Supes #1 be in ? that sucker looks nice to me, it's got to be at least an 8.0 right ?

I have never seen a scan of BZ's?

link?

 

BZ's books are sweet but they would look so much better if the scans were not all cropped. Any one ever mention this to him?

 

R.