art market prices deline 7.5%..... will comic prices follow?

[That Ron Dude]

There is some fascinating speculation here.

 

I just want to point out that the art market peaks at about $250 million for a recent Klimpt. A recent Picasso went for about $200 million. Van Gogh's have come close to $200 million. Even a crummy Rothko goes for over $10 million. Those four paintings alone are worth more than all the comics at all the Chicago conventions put together.

 

I am no economist but it seems to me that the factors that reflect investment art sales would be different, at least in some ways, then the factors that effect purchasing a Fantastic Four #12 or even an Action #1.

[dekeuk]

There is some fascinating speculation here.

 

I just want to point out that the art market peaks at about $250 million for a recent Klimpt. A recent Picasso went for about $200 million. Van Gogh's have come close to $200 million. Even a crummy Rothko goes for over $10 million. Those four paintings alone are worth more than all the comics at all the Chicago conventions put together.

 

I am no economist but it seems to me that the factors that reflect investment art sales would be different, at least in some ways, then the factors that effect purchasing a Fantastic Four #12 or even an Action #1.

 

 

Art will always be worth a lot more than comics. Billionaires and corporations like to buy $100 million+ paintings and hang them up to show how much money they have. You can't do that with a comic.

 

Hang up an ACTION #1 in 9.4 on the wall and your guests will think it is interesting, and some might even realize it's worth "some money". But its not the same effect as hanging a Van Gogh on your wall where it is much more obvious to the casual observer that it is worth millions.

 

On a side note, Nic Cage hung his best comics on his wall and look what it got him...... stolen comics.

 

 

 

 

 

[Thegoldenage]

When the economy is strong, people have more money to buy comics. When the economy is weak, people seek comic books as a safe haven. When the dollar is strong, people want to own comics as they are largely a U.S.-dollar denominated asset. When the dollar is weak, foreigners have more purchasing power to buy comics.

 

There are more comic collectors now than there have ever been. People who grew up in the '80s are now just hitting their peak earnings years and will be buying more comics, especially with the economy doing so great and so many jobs being created in this country. And, with all the publicity from all the fantastic comic book movies like "Daredevil", "Elektra", "The Hulk" and "Spider-Man 3" that have been made, people naturally feel the urge to sink their life savings into comic books, especially high-grade Silver Age slabs. When times get tough, people can make do without food or gas...but try to take away their early Brave & Bolds and you've got a riot on your hands!

 

Comic books have never been better or offered more value for your money. I mean, at what other period in history have we gotten such memorable, must-read storylines like "House of M", "One More Day" or "Sins Past" - Gwen Stacy knocking boots with Norman Osborn spread out over six $2.99 issues? More of the same, please!

 

Kids and younger collectors are getting into this hobby like never before. I see them all the time at my local comic shop. That is, when I'm not tripping over George Clooney or whichever big moneyed Hollywood name that has just gotten into the hobby. Or foreigners who have come to New York to take advantage of the weak dollar to buy comics - especially foreign celebrities; why, just last week I had to fight Jean-Claude Van Damme over some Curator copies over at Metropolis Comics. Hands off my X-Men, Jean-Claude!

 

And don't even get me started on original art! There's all these smart guys who keep coming on the Boards here - Destro, KrazyKat...and more recently Dr. Manhattan and Chameleon_Comics who keep reassuring me that original art is going to go to the stratosphere no matter what!

 

In short, comics are invulnerable to any decline in the art market or, indeed, any other market. They are pretty much recession-proof, depression-proof, child-proof, insufficiently_thoughtful_person-proof, and nuclear, biological and chemical proof as well. (thumbs u

 

You sound like Overstreet's annual "market report"...

[Thegoldenage]

I have to ask. How do you measure the drop in a global $ quantity of art? Every piece is a one off. Nothing is the same as and therefore worth as much as anything else. I mean we know what an ASM #300 CGC 9.6 is worth because several of them trade hands every week. There are enough plots on the graph to recognize a trend. Are they talking TOTAL sales? So what? This quarter did not bring as much as last...everything fluctuates. Sounds like someone is looking for a story and wrote one up to create a bit of a stir.

 

In the case of art there are too many variables and any one of these variables can cause a drop in realized prices.

 

1) Did art bring in less than estimated? Does this count as a loss or did someone not do their job properly?

2) Did the piece bring in an equal amount in foreign $$ but shows as less in US $ and there fore registers as a loss over here but not elsewhere (Americans can be so myopic)

3) Did less art trade in this early quarter than others? ie. people are either holding tight to their investments to ride out the storm, or people cling to them for comfort ( I know I hug my MMC#4 whenever I'm sad) or people are too busy doing taxes to worry about art?

4) Poor reporting.

5) a bazillion other reasons.

 

One last thing to consider...

 

Art $$ overall went down in 1990. Did comics? Nope.

I agree with Gene, comics are a great investment.

 

R.

 

Um, I think he wrote that article in jest.

[VintageComics]

My last two lines where in jest as well, though the questions about the articles validity where not.

 

[Thegoldenage]

Gotcha.

[Aman619]

oil hit $115 today....

this has got to cause some serious hurt real soon...

 

how are ordinary people making the same money they were 5 years ago surviving this? And, since the answer involves a whole lot of cutting back, how can the economy NOT take a serious hit since free spending has kept it all going so far.

 

 

or do the millions of people who DO make decent money still going to be spending enough?

 

 

 

 

[Thegoldenage]

oil hit $115 today....

this has got to cause some serious hurt real soon...

 

how are ordinary people making the same money they were 5 years ago surviving this? And, since the answer involves a whole lot of cutting back, how can the economy NOT take a serious hit since free spending has kept it all going so far.

 

 

or do the millions of people who DO make decent money still going to be spending enough?

 

Well said. I don't think that oil has topped out yet. The oil speculators are going nuts and the prices will continue to rise. This has got to affect the comic market, and I believe it already has begun to do so.

[Aman619]

maybe the comic market... but I was thinking the grocery market and clothing and restaurants and electronics etc etc Comics in total are a pimple in the overall economy, and the high end is merely a small group of people with enough assets to not be overly affected. Even the rest of the comic market shouldnt suffer unless a lot of you are using credit to buy comics?? or the grocery money? or will have to choose "comics or xxx"?

[adamstrange]

maybe the comic market... but I was thinking the grocery market and clothing and restaurants and electronics etc etc Comics in total are a pimple in the overall economy, and the high end is merely a small group of people with enough assets to not be overly affected. Even the rest of the comic market shouldnt suffer unless a lot of you are using credit to buy comics?? or the grocery money? or will have to choose "comics or xxx"?

 

Does little Timmy need lunch every day?

[action1kid]

My health insurance has surpassed my mortgage as my #1 expence as of this year..2000 a month! Thats 500 a week for a family of 4.

 

I never thought id see the day that electricity and gas were not affordible but it has arrived.

 

125.00 dollars to fill a landrover tank[im selling it today]

 

food prices are going up even faster than gas!

 

In new york we even have bridges you cant afford to cross..10.00 per crossing!

 

MY REALESTATE TAXES ON A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY 100X100FEET have exploded to 22k a year from 12k.

 

I could go on and on yet wallstreet is a blind as a bat to the MASSIVE inflation that has taken place over the last 2 years.How can wallstreet possibly see whats going on when looking at the economy through the eyes of only the very richest companies...They cant see a dam thing because its through the smallest companies that you see a recession comming at you 1st.Thats why govt reports are always to lagging.....

[action1kid]

oil hit $115 today....

this has got to cause some serious hurt real soon...

 

how are ordinary people making the same money they were 5 years ago surviving this? And, since the answer involves a whole lot of cutting back, how can the economy NOT take a serious hit since free spending has kept it all going so far.

 

 

or do the millions of people who DO make decent money still going to be spending enough?

 

Well said. I don't think that oil has topped out yet. The oil speculators are going nuts and the prices will continue to rise. This has got to affect the comic market, and I believe it already has begun to do so.

 

The reason oil is exploding is because 2.5 billion people have just entered the industrialized world[india and china]..thats 1/2 the world entering the marking for oil as they are now becomming industrialized.

[Aman619]

My health insurance has surpassed my mortgage as my #1 expence as of this year..2000 a month! Thats 500 a week for a family of 4.

 

thats pretty insane... what would your medical bills come to if you paid retail for every doctor visit and expense? 5K?? Youre now paying 25K just so you can pay a $20 co-pay instead of a $175 charge....

 

try catastrophic insurance... that kicks in above 25K and you'll be way ahead.

 

 

[Aman619]

maybe the comic market... but I was thinking the grocery market and clothing and restaurants and electronics etc etc Comics in total are a pimple in the overall economy, and the high end is merely a small group of people with enough assets to not be overly affected. Even the rest of the comic market shouldnt suffer unless a lot of you are using credit to buy comics?? or the grocery money? or will have to choose "comics or xxx"?

 

Does little Timmy need lunch every day?

 

we have our kids down to just two vegetables for lunch: french fries and ketchup!

 

 

[action1kid]

Im thinking its cheaper[not healthier] to eat fast food 3 times a day as oppossed to shopping at a supermarket once a week

[the blob]

There are more comic collectors now than there have ever been.

*********************

 

That's a funny post. The above is wrong, of course, but "there are more comic collectors [with enough disposable income to blow on a heck of a lot of expensive comics] now than there have ever been" might be true.

 

Obviously there were more back in 1992, let's say, but it was nickel and dime stuff back then. Buy 500 spawn 1s for $1.09 wholesale and blow them out for $3-4 each at a show, etc.

[action1kid]

From a business perspective I am sick and tired of constant increases in the cost of my supplies even in the face of a drastic drop in demand.Im sick and tired of getting letters saying that they appreciate my understanding in issueing yet another price increase.i dont have to understand anything anymore.Im tired of it.You increase my prices in this kind of an economic environment and your being eliminated.Plain and simple and thats what ive been doing as there are always other options.So mr supplier you are wrong.It is you who have to understand this time.im not taking it anymore...sorry for the rant...Ill drop it now

[the blob]

My health insurance has surpassed my mortgage as my #1 expence as of this year..2000 a month! Thats 500 a week for a family of 4.

**************

 

That's crazy. Luckily Hillary has a plan to fix all of that.....

 

But seriously, do you have a super primo plan or some preexisting condition or something?

 

I think it's time for the wife to get a job with some good subsidized health insurance, which I assume isn't the case! (I know you have your own business, so it's a problem for you.) Just kidding, I know things usually are the way they are for a reason. Two working parents with little kids is a PITA. I know, that's my life!

 

We're about $200/mo for a family of 3, but I know our employers pay like 80-90% of our cost plus like 60-75% for the little guy.

 

I'll have to ask my brother what he's paying. He runs his own business in NY, but has a lot of pseudoemployees (consultants he rents out), so he may benefit from economies of scale (or buying in bulk).

[the blob]

yes, but if you can't get those supplies cheaper elsewhere, what choice do you have?

[action1kid]

then i split the purchases amongst 2 new suppliers as i wont give 1 supplier all my business unless i get a better deal. i think your in a better position to negotiate if you make the old supplier feel the pain 1st[cut back or eliminate]than your talk has clout