I just learned that grading terms are "subjective"

[Mr.Silvestri]

To be honest comix NO ONE really know what went on with this sale because it's still one sided, but to take what I've read so far this thread IS subjective !!

 

Price is a factor because the buyer was hoping to get a great deal of dirt cheap, then turns around after finding his grading to be different from the sellers to want a refund because the other person makes him mad .. instead of working out something both the seller & buyer can live with..

[Extremo Man-migration]

"The term "very fine+" is a term that creates an expectation of quality and condition on the part of the buyer that cannot be undone by the use of "subjective" later on."

 

Right. The seller cannot tack that on later.

 

Thing is, the seller said his grade was subjective in the original description. In the sellers opinion, the book was a VF. Who's to say the buyers opinion is any more accurate than the sellers opinion? Opinions are just that, opinions.

 

If a seller says his grade is subjective, then you can gamble that the sellers grading standards match your own. Or, this I recommend, you can request higher resolution scans(back and front), and you can decide the grade for yourself. In the end you were warned, and you can't complain.

 

[Rocketeer]

OVERSTREET gives a price of $24 in VERY GOOD & $42 in FINE.....

 

Were you hoping to get a $161 book for dirt cheap and only pay $36+ shipping

from the seller...

 

...maybe my top bid was $161.00,...you don't know what it was do you?...and that irrelevant to the point,..I was bidding on a book that was advertised as a VF+,...and I already said I was expecting a F or F+,...and quite frankly anyone who would pay full guide for a F book is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person,.....if you would like to give me full guide for every book I own I will be glad to hand deliver them free of charge to your door...

[mschmidt]

Howdy,

I know that the terms of vf, g, f+ etc are all very subjective (which I specifically made note of in the auction) which is why I gave a detailed description. Could you tell me how the description was inaccurate please.

Thanks,

 

 

The guy was polite in his reply to you and was just asking you what you saw in the book that prevented it from being grading VF+ Why go ballistic on him instead of stating your claim like you did here?

 

I agree with Scrooge - it sucks that the comic was misrepresented, but it doesn't seem like you're at all interested in even trying to work this out with the seller. The seller asks you nicely (even uses the p-word) to tell him why you thought his book was overgraded, and you immediately take offense & want to give him a neg? That's lame.

 

Why don't you post the first message you sent to him?

[Rocketeer]

...umm,...OK,...

 

Hi,

 

Dear mountaineer37,

 

Hi,

 

Recieved the book today and it's really not what I would expect for a VF+,....closer to a VG/F...would appreciate a return if that's OK.

 

JD

 

 

- the_rocketeer!

 

...pretty nasty huh?...

[mschmidt]

So why didn't you use the same tone in your second message and told him what was wrong with the book?

[Mr.Silvestri]

OVERSTREET gives a price of $24 in VERY GOOD & $42 in FINE.....

 

Were you hoping to get a $161 book for dirt cheap and only pay $36+ shipping

from the seller...

 

...maybe my top bid was $161.00,...you don't know what it was do you?...and that irrelevant to the point,..I was bidding on a book that was advertised as a VF+,...and I already said I was expecting a F or F+,...and quite frankly anyone who would pay full guide for a F book is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person,.....if you would like to give me full guide for every book I own I will be glad to hand deliver them free of charge to your door...

 

Maybe your max bid was $161 and your right I will never know BUT I do know that your still giving a one sided story about how you got the shaft for a book & then sent a NEG to some one who maybe really didn't deserve it (IMO)

 

Why don't you post you ebay name here so everyone can put you on there blocked bidders list...

 

So I'm a insufficiently_thoughtful_person for buying a book that was stated in an auction to be the grade given at guide price - send it to CGC - and have it graded higher ----

 

Thanks for pointing this out, I'd never had thought I was a insufficiently_thoughtful_person for doing this.. (thumbs u

 

 

 

[Rocketeer]

 

 

I did,...here is the second message,...

 

Dear mountaineer37,

 

..the part in the title where you grade it a VF+,...subjectivity aside, there is a water stain on the back cover and at least 8 color breaking creases on the spine,...the book is about a VG+/F-

 

 

- the_rocketeer!

 

...anything else?....

[greggy]

Quit yer whining

[Rocketeer]

Quit yer whining

 

...it would be worth the four hour drive there and back to just beeyotch-slap you once you know,.... if you see a gray Ranger pull up outside your condo I suggest you don't answer the door,...

[greggy]

Quit yer whining

 

...it would be worth the four hour drive there and back to just beeyotch-slap you once you know,.... if you see a gray Ranger pull up outside your condo I suggest you don't answer the door,...

You are a sickly dude

[Extremo Man-migration]

Haha

[mschmidt]

 

I did,...here is the second message,...

 

Dear mountaineer37,

..the part in the title where you grade it a VF+,...subjectivity aside, there is a water stain on the back cover and at least 8 color breaking creases on the spine,...the book is about a VG+/F-

- the_rocketeer!

 

...anything else?....

 

So, let me get this straight - the replies went like this?

 

---

 

1. FROM YOU:

Recieved the book today and it's really not what I would expect for a VF+,....closer to a VG/F...would appreciate a return if that's OK.

 

2. FROM HIM:

I know that the terms of vf, g, f+ etc are all very subjective (which I specifically made note of in the auction) which is why I gave a detailed description. Could you tell me how the description was inaccurate please.

 

3. FROM YOU:

..the part in the title where you grade it a VF+,...subjectivity aside, there is a water stain on the back cover and at least 8 color breaking creases on the spine,...the book is about a VG+/F-

 

4. FROM YOU:

thanks for clearing things up for me. Now that I know that the terms of vf, g, f+ etc are all very subjective .. etc etc etc

 

---

 

Is there something missing here or is it just me?

[General Zod]

...well I already asked him for a return,..that's when I got the "grading is subjective" cr@p,..response,...I would never Neg someone w/o first giving them a chance to right things,..

 

Why are you so mad about his "grading is subjective" response when the same phrase is

in the body of his auction?

 

"Howdy, I'm offering a very nice copy of Batman 149. I know that grading is subjective so will try to be as accurate as possible in the description. The front cover is firmly attached with only very minor wear, good gloss and only slight corner rounding. The spine has only a few very small stress lines. The back cover shows some rubbing wear mostly towards spine but is mostly white and bright. The pages are white to OW. There are no major rips, folds or creases. Please see my other auctions."

 

 

The seller did not disclose the water marks on the back and the OP did ask for a refund... so I vote strongly for a negative.

 

It isn't the buyer's fault the auction ended so cheaply. Why fault him?

[shadroch]

I don't see an email where the guy refused a refund. Sounded to me like the guy was willing to at least try and work something out.

[divad]

Neg the dikhead and be done with it

[divad]

This is tongue in cheek, right? Because nobody could really think like this, right?

 

OVERSTREET gives a price of $24 in VERY GOOD & $42 in FINE.....

 

Were you hoping to get a $161 book for dirt cheap and only pay $36+ shipping

from the seller... Had the book been better than VF+ would you have sent him / her more money because YOU GOT A GREAT DEAL

 

NO you wouldn't - I'm sure you'd laugh your off knowing you got one heck of a deal..but then since things didn't go your way and the seller sold a book at around guide price your not happy anymore and you take advantage of this situation and slam them a NEG because you know he can't give one back..

 

You think it would be right if the seller slammed you with a NEG because you didn't spend more & he asks you to pay more for the book and you walk away and not go thru witht he deal ??

 

Your very fine condition IS subjective to some one else's because not everyone grades the same (maybe close) & did you ever ask the seller for a larger scan or picture of the book before you bought it - prob not since I'm sure this was an impulse buy or last minute find.

 

It's funny because this seller (IMO) did what most people do and give a good description of there items only to have someone having a bad day turn around and wine when they didn't get the GREAT sale they were hoping for plus not asking questions before the auction ended..

 

I think your the person in the wrong for not following through with the questions.

 

Karma to you...

 

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

Neg 'im.

 

Sellers shouldn't be allowed to hide behind their ignorance.

 

Ya gots to pay to play.

 

"Duh, I said VF but also said grading is subjective, so...I'll just throw the burden on the bidders' laps...?"

 

Anyone here siding with the seller, please give me your IDs so I can put you on MY blocked sellers list! Thanx a bunch.

 

Rick

[Davenport]

Yeah, neg the MoFo and be done with it. Run him and his ilk right off eBay. Who needs lowball comic book auctions with pizzpoor discriptions anyway.

 

Personally I've always enjoyed those "poke and hope" type auctions. There's a high risk/reward ratio and it's cheap to play. Odds are a longshot and sometimes, not often, you get very lucky.

 

BTW, I thought the reason CGC runs books by three graders is because "grade" is so subjective. And even with that method they're not dumb enough to guarantee their opinion.

[Flaming_Telepath]

A few observations...

 

(1) If someone is going to use terminology recognised by the hobby/industry...VF+, or VG-...then they have to have a good grasp of what those terms mean and what is allowable in those grades. You can't have some halfway house of 'I have no idea, plus it's all subjective' along with 'book grades at VF+'.

 

(2) What was paid for the book is 100% irrelevant. It's an auction and the bidder is entitled to bid what he wants for what he thinks he's getting. If he wins it for 'cheap', then that is wholly a facet of the auction format. Also part of the self-same auction format is that the item must be as described. Thems the rules.

 

Imagine going to Circuit City and picking up a new 45" Plasma TV in their 50% off sale. You get it home and discover that there's no sound and the picture is in black & white. When complaining to the store, would you find it acceptable for Customer Service to point out that you shouldn't complain, as you only paid half price and that's what you get for trying to get something 'on the cheap'?

 

Like you would.

 

(3) When the seller asks for Rocketeer to 'point out what is incorrect in the description', leading him to think the book is not VF+, he's not being nice and asking for guidance. What he's doing, for the seventh time, is referring his buyer to the 'grading is subjective' opt-out clause. He's actually attempting to be clever.

 

(4) Having claimed that he gave a full description, he didn't. Staining has an important, and hugely detrimental, effect on grade...and he didn't reveal it.

 

All in all, a negative is the very least scum-bag deserves. A public flogging would be more appropriate. (thumbs u