Use caution when dealing with this ebay seller.

[MCMiles]

I know I have seen some board members win some books from these guys before so I figured I would relay what I would consider to be interesting information.

 

First I'll say that I kept quiet about the seller after I bought a book that came back from CGC with slight pro restoration because with polite persistence I eventually received an acceptable partial refund. The seller did, however, try pretty hard to avoid it, stating that they have a 7 day return policy and that CGC is to inconsistent to allow returns based on CGC varying opinion. How they figured this applies to factual restoration, I have no idea.

 

I recently received a second chance offer from the same seller for a book I bid on but did not win. This is the actual offer e-mail:

 

This book came back from CGC with the notation that the staples had been replaced. Do you still want it at some reduced price? If so, we can relist it at that price. Regards, Frank

 

I am assuming here that it was returned to them for a refund after submitting to CGC and this was an honest attempt to move the book.

Here is a new listing -ending tonight - for the same book. Read the description.

 

Auction link.

 

While not a complete lie. It still seems pretty shady to me. Obviously the book was cracked out and this description written in a way that will cover thier azz but hopefully still provoke the wishfull thinking type bidder in to a strong bid.

 

 

[greggy]

That's Bill Hughes

[qualitycomix]

I agree, it's Bill Hughes, but who the heck is Frank?

[JohnT]

While not a complete lie. It still seems pretty shady to me. Obviously the book was cracked out and this description written in a way that will cover thier azz but hopefully still provoke the wishfull thinking type bidder in to a strong bid.

 

I'm not sure this bothers me. Everyone knows that staple cleaning or replacement is going to get a purple label, right? Do you think they should have said "came back from CGC with notation that staples have been replaced, but it's been cracked out?"

[MCMiles]

While not a complete lie. It still seems pretty shady to me. Obviously the book was cracked out and this description written in a way that will cover thier azz but hopefully still provoke the wishfull thinking type bidder in to a strong bid.

 

I'm not sure this bothers me. Everyone knows that staple cleaning or replacement is going to get a purple label, right? Do you think they should have said "came back from CGC with notation that staples have been replaced, but it's been cracked out?"

 

I think a simple "staples have been replaced" would be perfect, since that is the fact of the matter. Obviously it is known that they have been replaced. Why put the "

look cleaned or replaced."?

Also, it could get a green label.

 

[gilbertotorres]

i bought from them before.

 

they dont seem very trustworthy. never responded to messages and took a long time to send out

 

[VintageComics]

Can't see Ebay. What is the seller's Ebay name?

 

R.

 

 

[chromium]

Can't see Ebay. What is the seller's Ebay name?

 

R.

 

 

njpower2000

[VintageComics]

Can't see Ebay. What is the seller's Ebay name?

 

R.

 

 

njpower2000

 

That's what I thought.

 

(thumbs u

[DrWatson]

That's Bill Hughes

The same www.vintagecollectables.net Bill Hughes?

[cheetah]

I've bought a couple of CGC copper age books from them in the last 2-3 months. No issues in those deals. Maybe not the fastest shipping but I've seen much worse.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Hmm. Lots of questions. From reading the initial statement about the book, do you think it was submitted and cracked back out ?

[MCMiles]

Hmm. Lots of questions. From reading the initial statement about the book, do you think it was submitted and cracked back out ?

 

Well, this is a direct quote from the seller "This book came back from CGC with the notation that the staples had been replaced." and now the book was just sold as raw. It also previously sold sveral weeks ago on ebay as unrestored. It is hard to say if the seller submit the book or had it returned by a previous buyer that submitted it.

 

I don't think the seller is a crook, really. I do think the auction description was written in a way to be vague or misleading about the facts and possibly lead potential bidders (optomistic ones) in to believing that there may be nothing done to the staples, or that they may have just been cleaned. (not quite as big a negative as replaced staples).

 

Concerning a book I purchased from them myself that came back from CGC as restored, this was their initial response when I asked what they wanted to do concerning it:

 

We offer a very liberal policy of return for any reason that you feel the book is not to your liking. The book must be returned within seven days, as stated in every one of our auctions. This policy avoids our being involved in the opinions of CGC which are as subjective as any. We are interested only in our buyer's opinion of the book when he receives it. CGC, for instance calls taping of a tear amateur restoration, while no one else does. With so much ink being found on comic books, how can anyone tell whether a dot of color is accidental or covering a white dot of color break on the book? Our policy precludes returning the book after such a long time, but we will speak to the owner regarding a possible partial refund if you don't like the book. We will get back to you with an answer.

 

I am putting this part in bold because I want to be as fair as possible to the seller. We eventually came to an agreement over the book I purchased. They were not difficult to work with, but I feel as though they initially tried to avoid having to accept a return or refund any money.

 

I am not putting this information out here in an attempt to hurt anyone's business or reputation. I am not bitter that I bought a retored book and didn't even break even on it. I don't think the intentionally try to pass off restored books as unrestored. This seller has a lot of nice books up for sale at great starting prices, and I am sure many forum members have bid and will bid on their books. Therefore, I wanted to put this info out there. If nothing else, a simple question or two, prior to bidding, to the seller may save the bidder and the seller time and money.

 

I didn't know that Bill Hughes was associated with this seller till some of the other posts. Bill Hughes is not the person I corresponded with in any of the e-mails.

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Honesty is the best policy.. I think you have been very passive in your responses. Which to me seems very fair. If the book was sold as unrestored that is one thing, if it was mentioned thats another. I dont think the staple "cleaned or replaced" should have been a sidenote though. To me, that fact is as important as the grade. I dont know how many people will agree with me on that, but thats how I feel.

 

If you are happy with the book, then thats good. I found the thread to be interesting though.

 

Pat-

[VintageComics]

I think there are a lot of people who do not care as much as we do about this sort of stuff. We are not the average collector...the average collector (even the ones with lots of money) only want a "nice looking book" to fill their runs.

 

I ran into one at the TO con yesterday. Asked if I wanted to resell a book I had just bought...didn't really seem to know how to grade. Just asked me what I thought of the book (grade wise) and what I would take. He offered me a 50% profit on the spot just to fill his run.

 

I agree he (NJPower) could have been a bit more...well..obvious in stating the obvious, but many people dis-agree with CGC...and often.

 

Point is we might take it a little further than most people do. NJ Power is likely looking to cater to the average collector who does not care that much and sometimes runs into one of us along the way.

 

BTW, as far as my dealings with Bill Hughes, I met him in Chicago, he bought some books from me and was very classy and honest. I can't say enough about it. Not because he gave me money but more so in the manner that he did it. I can't really go into details but I will say he went above and beyond what was necessary just to make sure I was 100% happy.

 

 

R.

 

 

[500Club]

 

 

We offer a very liberal policy of return for any reason that you feel the book is not to your liking. The book must be returned within seven days, as stated in every one of our auctions. This policy avoids our being involved in the opinions of CGC which are as subjective as any. We are interested only in our buyer's opinion of the book when he receives it. CGC, for instance calls taping of a tear amateur restoration, while no one else does. With so much ink being found on comic books, how can anyone tell whether a dot of color is accidental or covering a white dot of color break on the book? Our policy precludes returning the book after such a long time, but we will speak to the owner regarding a possible partial refund if you don't like the book. We will get back to you with an answer.

 

I find this response troublesome. Staple replacement is restoration. That is a fact, not an 'opinion' of CGC. There is nothing subjective about it.

 

The idea that an 'accidental' spot of color would just happen to land on a color break is laughable as well.

 

I've bought books from this seller with no problem, the majority being bronze/copper CGC 9.8s. Obviously, they had no issue with the 'opinion' of CGC that the books were 9.8s.

[dick_tracy-migration]

I find this response troublesome. Staple replacement is restoration. That is a fact, not an 'opinion' of CGC. There is nothing subjective about it.

 

Maybe he's using Overstreet's definitions? From the Grading Guide, 2nd Edition, page 164:

"Any staple can be replaced on books up to Fine, but only vintage staples can be used on books from Very Fine to Near Mint. Mint books must have original staples". .Maybe his argument is that he used vintage staples?

 

But I agree with you, and books with any staples replaced should be considered restored.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I find this response troublesome. Staple replacement is restoration. That is a fact, not an 'opinion' of CGC. There is nothing subjective about it.

 

Maybe he's using Overstreet's definitions? From the Grading Guide, 2nd Edition, page 164:

"Any staple can be replaced on books up to Fine, but only vintage staples can be used on books from Very Fine to Near Mint. Mint books must have original staples". .Maybe his argument is that he used vintage staples?

 

But I agree with you, and books with any staples replaced should be considered restored.

 

I never read that... Thats an open invite for shady deals.

[VintageComics]

I find this response troublesome. Staple replacement is restoration. That is a fact, not an 'opinion' of CGC. There is nothing subjective about it.

 

Maybe he's using Overstreet's definitions? From the Grading Guide, 2nd Edition, page 164:

"Any staple can be replaced on books up to Fine, but only vintage staples can be used on books from Very Fine to Near Mint. Mint books must have original staples". .Maybe his argument is that he used vintage staples?

 

But I agree with you, and books with any staples replaced should be considered restored.

 

I never read that... Thats an open invite for shady deals.

 

Actually it was at one time (and still is by some) generally accepted that certain types of repair are allowed in lower grades. On a VG book color touch would not bother me at all. It's no different than writing lowering the grade. Same with tape and glue...these are all defects that likely would not change the grade OR change it much. Again, we micro scrutinize things here on the forums in a way that most of the real world does not.

 

R.

 

 

[dopy02]

While not a complete lie. It still seems pretty shady to me. Obviously the book was cracked out and this description written in a way that will cover thier azz but hopefully still provoke the wishfull thinking type bidder in to a strong bid.

 

I'm not sure this bothers me. Everyone knows that staple cleaning or replacement is going to get a purple label, right? Do you think they should have said "came back from CGC with notation that staples have been replaced, but it's been cracked out?"

 

I think a simple "staples have been replaced" would be perfect, since that is the fact of the matter. Obviously it is known that they have been replaced. Why put the "

look cleaned or replaced."?

Also, it could get a green label.

 

dang right the description is misleading.