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Isn't it time GRADING notes were printed on the CGC label?

87 posts in this topic

Linky

 

Yeah, and taste the wrath of the zealots.

 

What zealots? According to several board members, this practice is common place and quite acceptable.

 

You know what I mean...but I guess you're right and can't please everybody...in any case I was lucky to find someone who was happy enough to buy the book.

 

R.

Yes, I know what you mean. They are called hypocrites.

 

:roflmao:

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Linky

 

Yeah, and taste the wrath of the zealots.

 

What zealots? According to several board members, this practice is common place and quite acceptable.

 

You know what I mean...but I guess you're right and can't please everybody...in any case I was lucky to find someone who was happy enough to buy the book.

 

R.

Yes, I know what you mean. They are called hypocrites.

Do they take the hypocritic oath before joining that zealot organization?

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Linky

 

Yeah, and taste the wrath of the zealots.

 

What zealots? According to several board members, this practice is common place and quite acceptable.

 

You know what I mean...but I guess you're right and can't please everybody...in any case I was lucky to find someone who was happy enough to buy the book.

 

R.

Yes, I know what you mean. They are called hypocrites.

Do they take the hypocritic oath before joining that zealot organization?

...see my fist you better run.

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Linky

 

Yeah, and taste the wrath of the zealots.

 

What zealots? According to several board members, this practice is common place and quite acceptable.

 

You know what I mean...but I guess you're right and can't please everybody...in any case I was lucky to find someone who was happy enough to buy the book.

 

R.

Yes, I know what you mean. They are called hypocrites.

Do they take the hypocritic oath before joining that zealot organization?

...see my fist you better run.

That's what I'm talking about. :grin:

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If they all shut up (like you) Greg... then the whole forum would be nothing but graemilins with the occasional single sentence.

lol:baiting:

 

How about you start posting your opinions more instead? :foryou:

We know you have a wealth of knowledge to draw upon and when you do deliver... its usually worth reading.

 

How about "text only" posts of 1-2 sentences or more minimum (with no single graemilin posts) until you hit 50,000.

:headbang:

 

Can you do it?

(shrug):kidaround:

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As evidenced from the last label change...it has been decided that LESS is MORE.

 

Plus, can you imagine notes on a label on a low grade book...the label would have to be as big as the book!

 

I would be satisfied with online query access if I so desired.

 

 

Solid point, so how about a TIER at which point notes would be included? Say an 8.5 and up? No offense to anyone that collects mid to lower grade copies, but the notes I would think are more important to HIGH grade collectors? No?

 

The graders notes could serve the collective as well. The label notations were part of the solution, but the thought of having online access to the notes opens up an entirely new and exciting benefit to the collecting community as a whole. This was actually a topic of interest during a telephone conversation this afternoon with a friend and fellow collector.

 

While the GPA metrics provide a tremendous service in tracking and reporting the sales of comics in each grade score strata, what it can't do is differentiate between things like page quality. What I'm getting at here is the notion that a difference in price yields for books in the same grade might be explained by things like page quality (WHITE vs. OW/W) and overall production quality (ie. well centered, better presenting copy), date stamps, writing, etc.

 

If an online query was available which would allow you to enter the serial number, and pull values like page quality, and any grading notations that could effect value in the eyes of condition sensitive buyers, services like GPA could suddenly find themselves reporting their data with a higher degree of precision and accuracy, and in turn, it could also start to shed some light on pricing anomolies that just can't be explained by a grade alone.

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As evidenced from the last label change...it has been decided that LESS is MORE.

 

Plus, can you imagine notes on a label on a low grade book...the label would have to be as big as the book!

 

I would be satisfied with online query access if I so desired.

 

 

Solid point, so how about a TIER at which point notes would be included? Say an 8.5 and up? No offense to anyone that collects mid to lower grade copies, but the notes I would think are more important to HIGH grade collectors? No?

 

The graders notes could serve the collective as well. The label notations were part of the solution, but the thought of having online access to the notes opens up an entirely new and exciting benefit to the collecting community as a whole. This was actually a topic of interest during a telephone conversation this afternoon with a friend and fellow collector.

 

While the GPA metrics provide a tremendous service in tracking and reporting the sales of comics in each grade score strata, what it can't do is differentiate between things like page quality. What I'm getting at here is the notion that a difference in price yields for books in the same grade might be explained by things like page quality (WHITE vs. OW) and overall production quality (ie. well centered, presenting copy), date stamps, etc.

 

If an online query was available which would allow you to enter the serial number, and pull values like page quality, and any grading notations that could effect value in the eyes of condition sensitive buyers, services like GPA could suddenly find themselves reporting their data with a higher degree of accuracy, and in turn, could also shed some light on pricing anomolies that just can't be explained by a score alone.

 

This is what I was talking about earlier, before Doc decided to go hyperbolic to make his point ( :baiting: Doc, don't hit me when you see me later this month, please) but again, without knowing the structure or inputs in their grader's notes database...(shrug)

 

I would assume that the grader's notes follow some sort of standard notational schema, since anyone can give you the notes over the phone. This assumption would mean that the notes would be translatable to anything GPA or some other vendor chose.

 

 

I'll tell you right now...I'm not a paid member of the Collector's Society, but if they made grader's notes available online to members, I'd join. Even at double the current fee, and without the coupons. I think it's that important, and that valuable. If they didn't want to do it in-house, they could charge a fee to any online vendor for access, and let said vendor pass that cost to customers in any manner the vendor so chose

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As evidenced from the last label change...it has been decided that LESS is MORE.

 

Plus, can you imagine notes on a label on a low grade book...the label would have to be as big as the book!

 

I would be satisfied with online query access if I so desired.

 

 

Solid point, so how about a TIER at which point notes would be included? Say an 8.5 and up? No offense to anyone that collects mid to lower grade copies, but the notes I would think are more important to HIGH grade collectors? No?

 

The graders notes could serve the collective as well. The label notations were part of the solution, but the thought of having online access to the notes opens up an entirely new and exciting benefit to the collecting community as a whole. This was actually a topic of interest during a telephone conversation this afternoon with a friend and fellow collector.

 

While the GPA metrics provide a tremendous service in tracking and reporting the sales of comics in each grade score strata, what it can't do is differentiate between things like page quality. What I'm getting at here is the notion that a difference in price yields for books in the same grade might be explained by things like page quality (WHITE vs. OW) and overall production quality (ie. well centered, presenting copy), date stamps, etc.

 

If an online query was available which would allow you to enter the serial number, and pull values like page quality, and any grading notations that could effect value in the eyes of condition sensitive buyers, services like GPA could suddenly find themselves reporting their data with a higher degree of accuracy, and in turn, could also shed some light on pricing anomolies that just can't be explained by a score alone.

 

This is what I was talking about earlier, before Doc decided to go hyperbolic to make his point ( :baiting: Doc, don't hit me when you see me later this month, please) but again, without knowing the structure or inputs in their grader's notes database...(shrug)

 

I would assume that the grader's notes follow some sort of standard notational schema, since anyone can give you the notes over the phone. This assumption would mean that the notes would be translatable to anything GPA or some other vendor chose.

 

 

I'll tell you right now...I'm not a paid member of the Collector's Society, but if they made grader's notes available online to members, I'd join. Even at double the current fee, and without the coupons. I think it's that important, and that valuable. If they didn't want to do it in-house, they could charge a fee to any online vendor for access, and let said vendor pass that cost to customers in any manner the vendor so chose

 

The database structure is part of the issue - but what we don't know is whether the database was intended to work on a client/standalone query design. From what I've been told, the only way to query the database is with the s/n, which more than likely means its a custom standalone build (I'm guessing VB/Access) and some work would be required to figure out how to translate this to a fully functional Web-based application environment.

 

The good thing is that once the translation part is figured out, there should be ways to make queries on any value, which might allow for instance, someone to compare the page quality on all census registerred copies in a specific grade. What this would also do is open up the possibility of syndicating queries in XML or RSS, providing folks like GPA significant enhancements to their reporting. Personally, I see a much greater value attached to PR than money if something like this would be available because the benefit would be far reaching, pioneering and would really reveal the practicality of the census data that goes beyond bragging rights. While I think a more advanced service for vendors that would allow unlimited queries should have a price attached to it, a service fee for public access (maybe 10 queries a day) would just result in someone developing a workaround service to scrape those values for their own benefit.

 

Isn't there a member on these boards that gets access to census updates? That member would know the db format.

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Isn't there a member on these boards that gets access to census updates? That member would know the db format.

 

I think you mean Greg Holland (www.gregholland.com). Pretty sure he does screen scraping. All of the Collector's Society's pages are ASP, so most likely the back end is SQL Server.

 

CGC simply isn't likely to ever make the notes available. Anything less than complete documentation of a comic's condition leads to devaluation of the comic and second-guessing of the grade, and complete documentation isn't easy to do. CGC found this out during their first year. They used to put partial grading notes right on the label, but they found that collectors were thinking that the notes were extra defects, not included in the overall grade, and that pointing out some things, but not everything, led to a devaluation of their product, which is the opposite of what they intended. The perfect solution is to include MORE documentation, not less, but it may not be realistic -- how do you completely document a comic? The low grades, which bring less income to CGC, then end up being the most work, requiring more documentation.

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The grade of a book is already affected by page quality.

 

 

In some cases, not all...and that is why it needs to be separated completely.

 

For example a white pager can push a tweener up, a c/ow can push a tweener down, but o/w and ow/w stay the course...and yet all 4 books can be identicle in structure. Doesn't that seem a bit....strange?

 

R.

 

 

No more strange than grading only the comic book covers instead of grading the whole comic book, including PQ, which is a significant indicator of the health/lifespan of the item. There's no "right" answer as to which factors to consider when grading a comic or how much weight to assign each factor. The consistent assignment of a single numeric grade will necessarily involve a set of choices that, at the end of the day, are unlikely to match any single collector's preference.

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The grade of a book is already affected by page quality.

 

 

In some cases, not all...and that is why it needs to be separated completely.

 

For example a white pager can push a tweener up, a c/ow can push a tweener down, but o/w and ow/w stay the course...and yet all 4 books can be identicle in structure. Doesn't that seem a bit....strange?

 

R.

 

 

No more strange than grading only the comic book covers instead of grading the whole comic book, including PQ, which is a significant indicator of the health/lifespan of the item. There's no "right" answer as to which factors to consider when grading a comic or how much weight to assign each factor. The consistent assignment of a single numeric grade will necessarily involve a set of choices that, at the end of the day, are unlikely to match any single collector's preference.

 

Ahh...but when you grade the cover and THEN include a PQ designation you offer a much more precise representation of what is going on with the comic than just mixing the PQ into the grade.

 

To me this is more *right* than offering a grade with no clear indication of whether the PQ affected it or not.

 

R.

 

 

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The grade of a book is already affected by page quality.

 

 

In some cases, not all...and that is why it needs to be separated completely.

 

For example a white pager can push a tweener up, a c/ow can push a tweener down, but o/w and ow/w stay the course...and yet all 4 books can be identicle in structure. Doesn't that seem a bit....strange?

 

R.

 

 

No more strange than grading only the comic book covers instead of grading the whole comic book, including PQ, which is a significant indicator of the health/lifespan of the item. There's no "right" answer as to which factors to consider when grading a comic or how much weight to assign each factor. The consistent assignment of a single numeric grade will necessarily involve a set of choices that, at the end of the day, are unlikely to match any single collector's preference.

 

Ahh...but when you grade the cover and THEN include a PQ designation you offer a much more precise representation of what is going on with the comic than just mixing the PQ into the grade.

 

To me this is more *right* than offering a grade with no clear indication of whether the PQ affected it or not.

 

R.

 

 

And if you offer a front cover grade, back cover grade, QP grade, ink reflectivity grade and a PQ grade it would be betterer still, right?

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Ahh...but when you grade the cover and THEN include a PQ designation you offer a much more precise representation of what is going on with the comic than just mixing the PQ into the grade.

 

CGC 9.8 with Brittle pages would be allowable under your criteria though, which makes no sense. A comic book is comprised of a front cover and a bunch of interior pages. The grade applies to them all, although admittedly the cover accounts for the majority of the grade since that's the part that people are gonna see...the interior is graded more on functionality, i.e. reading aesthetics, than appearance.

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