Can OA prices be manipulated?

[jjonahjameson1]

Right. The reason the Romita market was able to be manipulated like that is because there existed (and still exists) a tremendous demand for his work, specifically on Amazing Spider-Man.

 

Yeah, but Burkley hording a butt load of the guys artwork also played a big role in the current value, no one can deny that. Were Mike to put his whole Romita collection on the market right now, it would lower the overall market value due to the insane amount of new artwork being introduced into the system. (Oh come on, like none of you knew which collector was being refered too here)

 

I meen on this message board alone sits the man who single handledy drove the Preacher art market to Abinatti levels just by slowly and surely collecting as many pages as he could over the years. (It wasnt intentional market manipulation by any means, the guy was just buying what he liked at prices he could afford, but the market has sky rocketed because over the years Preacher art has become more and more sparse since its almost all in one place)

 

 

Well, I think this 'hoarding' can apply to a lot of things such as Paul Smith Uncanny X-Men, Byrne FF, Preacher pages (as you mentioned), and more recently, Adams Ben Casey strips, Bagley ASM pages, (gulp) Keown Hulk and Cooke New Frontier pages, etc.

 

What's more interesting is how this hobby has changed in the 7 years since I started collecting. Initially, when people became aware of my desire to obtain Keown Hulk covers and splashes, they would let me know that so-and-so has one for sale or trade and that I should contact said individual.

 

People were very helpful and wanted to help me with my collection.

 

Over the past few years, I've noticed a significant shift in behaviour as people now go out of their way, I repeat, they go out of their way, to obtain a Keown Hulk piece and hold it ransom against me because they think I'm going to pay $1.5K for a Hulk panel page. No thanks. Stick it on ebay and see whatcha get for it.

 

People are now vicious and malicious.

 

I am speaking in generalities as there are still some good people out there willing to help, but I fear they are becoming outnumbered by the other type of folks.

 

 

 

 

[mister_not_so_nice]

I meen on this message board alone sits the man who single handledy drove the Preacher art market to Abinatti levels just by slowly and surely collecting as many pages as he could over the years. (It wasnt intentional market manipulation by any means, the guy was just buying what he liked at prices he could afford, but the market has sky rocketed because over the years Preacher art has become more and more sparse since its almost all in one place )

 

For the record, 85% of the PREACHER pages produced are still "out there" in collections/dealer inventory other than my own.

 

I hardly think 15% is hoarding

 

Mike

p.s. I'm looking to buy just one more PREACHER page, anyone have one to sell

[Eric Seffinga]

Hah. If only I did.

 

I'd be curious if you ended up with my old pages. They were sold off one or two at a time over a many year span. It's been a long time since I read the series, so my memory is a touch fuzzy. Most of what I had was from the first year of the series, with the only others being the final 3 page sequence of Cass telling Tulip he loved her and her walking out of the bar.

 

There were the pages of Cass reading the porn book and then finding the head in his buddies fridge. A big Jessie headshot splash from his first visit to his family. A few others.

 

Pretty sure I didn't drop more than $85 on any Dillon splash pages, and up to $50 per on the panel pages. Those were the days.

 

I'll have to look, but I may still have an old Wildstorm art catalog or two with some pages shown in it, if you want it? Prices from then may make folks cry though.

 

-e.

[Khazano]

 

Over the past few years, I've noticed a significant shift in behaviour as people now go out of their way, I repeat, they go out of their way, to obtain a Keown Hulk piece and hold it ransom against me because they think I'm going to pay $1.5K for a Hulk panel page. No thanks. Stick it on ebay and see whatcha get for it.

 

 

Thats terrible, but you know what Ive been there too. That is a big reason why I have such an aggressive introduction on my CAF. There some people (i wont use the term collectors) whom literally prey on peoples want lists and refuse to negotiate, then slap it on ebay and usually get less than what i was offering let alone what they felt it should be worth.

 

That said, theres been a few times in my collecting career that I saw say a Keowen piece (or something else on someone elses want list, just using u as an example Yoram) and wonder if Yoram would be interested in trading xxx for xxx. I usually dont follow up on that though cause i figure if ive seen it on the open market odds are youve seen it and already passed. To date I have yet to make a trade this way, but the notion crosses my mind now and then when I see stuff floating around. But that's a lot different IMO than holding something for financial ransom.

 

And ya know, in 8 years of collecting, only once has someone contacted me to point out something they werent selling that they'd thought I'd like. And wouldnt ya know, it wasnt a long term collector, but a young gun in the hobby just learning the ropes of the game.

[Khazano]

I meen on this message board alone sits the man who single handledy drove the Preacher art market to Abinatti levels just by slowly and surely collecting as many pages as he could over the years. (It wasnt intentional market manipulation by any means, the guy was just buying what he liked at prices he could afford, but the market has sky rocketed because over the years Preacher art has become more and more sparse since its almost all in one place )

 

For the record, 85% of the PREACHER pages produced are still "out there" in collections/dealer inventory other than my own.

 

I hardly think 15% is hoarding

 

Mike

p.s. I'm looking to buy just one more PREACHER page, anyone have one to sell

 

A> What dealers??!! Where?! Point em out. All I want is one lil old page featuring Cassidy. Just one.

 

and

 

B> May only account for 15% but it sure is a lot of the good stuff. (and considering you have 15% of the artwork that spanned how many issues, close to a hundred? Id consider that hording

[mister_not_so_nice]

Hah. If only I did.

 

I'd be curious if you ended up with my old pages. They were sold off one or two at a time over a many year span. It's been a long time since I read the series, so my memory is a touch fuzzy. Most of what I had was from the first year of the series, with the only others being the final 3 page sequence of Cass telling Tulip he loved her and her walking out of the bar.

 

There were the pages of Cass reading the porn book and then finding the head in his buddies fridge.

 

Like THIS PAGE?

 

 

Pretty sure I didn't drop more than $85 on any Dillon splash pages, and up to $50 per on the panel pages. Those were the days.

 

almost all of my pages have a price written in pencil on the back. I just assume that's the shipping charges, becuase it sure isn't what I paid

 

 

I'll have to look, but I may still have an old Wildstorm art catalog or two with some pages shown in it, if you want it? Prices from then may make folks cry though.

-e.

 

Eric, I would love an old WILDSTORM catalog. I didn't know he put out a hard copy. I can remember fondly going through his site, on dial up waiting 10-15 minutes a page to load and wondering where I could scrimp up an extra $100 a month to get a page. I'd love to scan the catalog, post it in my CAF and let people know I'll pay DOUBLE those prices (thumbs u

 

Mike

[mister_not_so_nice]

I meen on this message board alone sits the man who single handledy drove the Preacher art market to Abinatti levels just by slowly and surely collecting as many pages as he could over the years. (It wasnt intentional market manipulation by any means, the guy was just buying what he liked at prices he could afford, but the market has sky rocketed because over the years Preacher art has become more and more sparse since its almost all in one place )

 

For the record, 85% of the PREACHER pages produced are still "out there" in collections/dealer inventory other than my own.

 

I hardly think 15% is hoarding

 

Mike

p.s. I'm looking to buy just one more PREACHER page, anyone have one to sell

 

A> What dealers??!! Where?! Point em out. All I want is one lil old page featuring Cassidy. Just one.

 

Check EBAY and ALBERT MOY (Albert's got more than what's listed on his site)

and

B> May only account for 15% but it sure is a lot of the good stuff. (and considering you have 15% of the artwork that spanned how many issues, close to a hundred? Id consider that hording

 

Well there are 1967 pages total in the series, including all of the minis. So not all of my pages are Dillon, I've got a few Pugh, Case and Snejbjerg in the mix as well. But you have to realise, that in order to get this many pages you have to get alot of non-top-tier stuff. Collectors have created a "Ouroboros" state in collecting. With prices the way they are, collectors are going after that "one example" (the cover/splash) and leaving everything else by the wayside. So prices on those pieces rise and rise, and more and more collectors go after the same piece making prices rise and rise and on and on. And the panel pages get let woefully behind.

[Eric Seffinga]

e bar.

 

There were the pages of Cass reading the porn book and then finding the head in his buddies fridge.

 

Like THIS PAGE?

 

Pretty sure I didn't drop more than $85 on any Dillon splash pages, and up to $50 per on the panel pages. Those were the days.

 

almost all of my pages have a price written in pencil on the back. I just assume that's the shipping charges, becuase it sure isn't what I paid

 

I'll have to look, but I may still have an old Wildstorm art catalog or two with some pages shown in it, if you want it? Prices from then may make folks cry though.

-e.

 

Eric, I would love an old WILDSTORM catalog. I didn't know he put out a hard copy. I can remember fondly going through his site, on dial up waiting 10-15 minutes a page to load and wondering where I could scrimp up an extra $100 a month to get a page. I'd love to scan the catalog, post it in my CAF and let people know I'll pay DOUBLE those prices (thumbs u

 

Mike

 

Your example's really close. I had the 2 pages right after that one.

As for the catalog, it's yours. I only found 1 dated December 1997. I used to get them all the time and this must be one of the last ones because the Preacher pages were from issues all the way up into the low 30s by this point, and I believe this is around the time they stopped sending the catalogs out. I found this one in a stack of old catalogs from Mitch that I've saved. The Wildstorm catalogs were super nice though, you'll see.

 

Shoot me an email at eric102673 at aol dot com with your addy and I'll get this sent to you on my next PO run.

 

AFA the prices go, this looks like they'd gone up a little bit. I remember when i got on a Preacher binge, dropping $200 for 5 pages, including a splash, and shipping, and feeling like I'd just broke the bank.

 

My personal biggest regret from this catalog, not counting my passing over the Hewlett Tank Girl art at SDCC that year, would be skipping the Scott Hampton cover painting for Night Cries (it's listed in the catalog as Batman and floating girls) for a whopping $850. Sheesh.

 

An Adam Hughes Cyclops splash page, $400. Sigh... I gotta stop flipping through this thing.

Send me that addy.

 

-e.

[TStrong-migration]

Collectors have created a "Ouroboros" state in collecting. With prices the way they are, collectors are going after that "one example" (the cover/splash) and leaving everything else by the wayside. So prices on those pieces rise and rise, and more and more collectors go after the same piece making prices rise and rise and on and on. And the panel pages get let woefully behind.

 

Maybe it's because I'm new here or ignorant or both but I had to look up Ouroboros. This is a Greek term and refers to a snake/dragon eating its own tail. If it has another meaning here at the Collectors Society, could you share it?

 

As for panel pages being left behind price-wise, that doesn't seem to be totally true. The JL punch page does nothing for me but wasn't its owner looking for thousands of $$$ for the piece? I'm completely guessing but I wonder if JL covers and splashes of the same era would bring that kind of money.

[mister_not_so_nice]

Has nothing to do with being new. This is just my observation over the last few years. When I began collecting it was conceivable, if you set your mind to it, to collect an entire book (if what you liked to collect was pages from modern drek comics). As prices slowly rose more collectors started to focus on getting "the one example that epitomises the artists talent." The more this mentality crept through the collective collector conciousness the quicker prices rose. The quicker prices rose, the more this collecting 'style' caught on, causing prices on those type pieces to rise quicker, causing more collectors to realise they need to get on the bandwagon or get left behind and so on (Does this make sense to anyone besides me?). This situation was further compounded when lettering went digital making panel pages that may have 'key dialog' even less special in thier original form. Thats where I come up with the "Ouroboros" state in collecting.

 

As for the JL piece, as I said before the OA market is very niche orientated. Looking at that page I'd say it was worth $125 maybe a bit more. But that's just me. I never read the story and have no idea of it's significance and certainly it hold no nostalgic merits for me. But to others that panel page is certainly worth more, because that's thier niche of collecting.

 

Number 1 rule of OA collecting/valuation? The answer is obvious, there is none!

[jjonahjameson1]

As for the JL piece, as I said before the OA market is very niche orientated. Looking at that page I'd say it was worth $125 maybe a bit more. But that's just me. I never read the story and have no idea of it's significance and certainly it hold no nostalgic merits for me. But to others that panel page is certainly worth more, because that's thier niche of collecting.

 

Well, you're pretty close. Pages from surrounding issues with Batman and some of the other JLA/I characters go for $200-$250 in general. Pages with Wonder Woman are a bit more, in general.

 

This series was a nice, whimsical departure from the overly-serious Superhero books of the day, and in that sense, it was a somewhat unique title among the Big Two publishers. I enjoyed reading the series when it was published, and I remember this page fondly, but there's no friggin' way I'd pay anywhere near what the seller wants for it. Reality. Check. Please.

[NelsonAI]

Caveat Emptor.

 

[Issa]

I completely agree with Yoram's posts and he knows exactly why.

[CollectingFool]

Well, first let me say how hilarious it is to see a discussion about price manipulation on the CGC board! A very well known comic dealer once showed me a circulation report where only one 9.9 copy of a comic was known to exist and it got a record price. He then opened a drawer and showed me over 100 copies of the same book all at least 9.8-10.0.

 

Now, with the art market... YES! Absolutely prices can be manipulated. What's even funnier is that COLLECTORS can be manipulated. There are SOOOO many collectors out there that oooh and aahhh over CAF galleries that they decide what they like based on how many comments they see a piece get. WOW, everyone went nuts over that Romita piece. I really should get an example of Romita too.

 

There are very few examples of good comic art that is actually rare or important to the medium and even fewer collectors that make up their own minds and buy what they genuinely like as opposed to what they think they should like or what will make them "more popular" with the collecting crowd. In that way, we are very much like the "REAL" art world.

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

 

[Eric Seffinga]

well put.

 

-e.

[robert frey]

can OA prics be manipulated? Is that a trick question?

[Nexus]

Hah. If only I did.

 

I'd be curious if you ended up with my old pages. They were sold off one or two at a time over a many year span. It's been a long time since I read the series, so my memory is a touch fuzzy. Most of what I had was from the first year of the series, with the only others being the final 3 page sequence of Cass telling Tulip he loved her and her walking out of the bar.

 

There were the pages of Cass reading the porn book and then finding the head in his buddies fridge. A big Jessie headshot splash from his first visit to his family. A few others.

 

Pretty sure I didn't drop more than $85 on any Dillon splash pages, and up to $50 per on the panel pages. Those were the days.

 

I'll have to look, but I may still have an old Wildstorm art catalog or two with some pages shown in it, if you want it? Prices from then may make folks cry though.

 

-e.

 

I got two early pages at SDCC this year. They had been sold by a collector (as it turns out, a guy I've known for a long time, but had been out of touch for about 10 years) to a dealer. The interesting thing is that they were still in the Wildstorm art envelope and still had the original prices penciled on them: $65 each!

 

I'd love to see what the catalog looks like so any pics/scans would be great. Regardless, thanks for the history lesson...love hearing those stories!

[Nexus]

A> What dealers??!! Where?! Point em out. All I want is one lil old page featuring Cassidy. Just one.

 

Check EBAY and ALBERT MOY (Albert's got more than what's listed on his site)

 

I mentioned Albert in an earlier thread re: PREACHER art and how he still had several pages left from the recently broken-up #53 issue. I am sorry to now report that Albert has told me that any PREACHER art he has left is going to Ebay. Not surprised given the results of his last couple of auctions. Sadly, the days of the $250 PREACHER page seems to be over.

[mister_not_so_nice]

A> What dealers??!! Where?! Point em out. All I want is one lil old page featuring Cassidy. Just one.

 

Check EBAY and ALBERT MOY (Albert's got more than what's listed on his site)

 

I mentioned Albert in an earlier thread re: PREACHER art and how he still had several pages left from the recently broken-up #53 issue. I am sorry to now report that Albert has told me that any PREACHER art he has left is going to Ebay. Not surprised given the results of his last couple of auctions. Sadly, the days of the $250 PREACHER page seems to be over.

 

Sadder still, the days of the $35, $79.95 starting bid, no reserve and being the only bidder and the $139.95 for the "nice page" auctions are gone also

[mister_not_so_nice]

Now, with the art market... YES! Absolutely prices can be manipulated. What's even funnier is that COLLECTORS can be manipulated. There are SOOOO many collectors out there that oooh and aahhh over CAF galleries that they decide what they like based on how many comments they see a piece get. WOW, everyone went nuts over that Romita piece. I really should get an example of Romita too.

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

 

These are the "Circle Jerk" collectors (no affiliation to Keith Morris). They get the "One epitomical piece" and take it around to all of the circles letting others 'gush' praise all over them. In 6 months when the applause and praise has dried up like so much spent love, the piece is sold off for the new piece to regain the center seat. This goes around more than the Ouroboros.