Is it time for CGC board marketplace sales to be reported to GPA?

[awe4one]

Not to mention all the transactions occurring via PM. I get PMs all the time from people with Nedors or Actions for sale(and lately copies of Batman #1. Quite often, a deal is made without anyone else on the board being aware of it. This is exactly the kind of transaction that could be listed in a GPA thread.

 

 

Jeez...now you want to report sales quietly between collectors? It's even a worse idea now...

 

Jim

[nearmint]

The number of CGC comics sold here is a miniscule amount when you take in the other avenues GPA get their data from. And the number of sellers of those slabs are many and varied. The benefit vs. the heartache of using message board sales seems like a no-brainer to me. To not open that potential can of worms makes sense not only from a business standpoint but also from a database integrity standpoint as well.

 

As I said earlier, I have no doubt that there are more sales on this site daily than Mark has on esquirecomics.com, or Bill has on vintagecolletables, or Steve has on investment collectibles, or Rob has on Archangels. Describing the sales in the marketplace as "miniscule" is simply not accurate.

 

Add in Comiclink, eBay, Pedigree, and Heritage and it is a very small percentage making miniscule a very proper description.

 

Also, those you mentioned are long time dealers with a proven track record. What you're proposing is sales from collector/dealers...most with little to no record to speak of outside of this Board. Huge difference...

 

Jim

 

My point, and I think you know this, is that the sales from the marketplace would be no more miniscule than Mark's, Rob's, Steve's, or Bill's, and George finds their sales significant enough to include, so why not ours?

 

I don't see the difference between our sales and those of "long time dealers". Sales are sales, and each and every one is as valuable as any other, regardless of how long the seller has been selling.

[nearmint]

Not to mention all the transactions occurring via PM. I get PMs all the time from people with Nedors or Actions for sale(and lately copies of Batman #1. Quite often, a deal is made without anyone else on the board being aware of it. This is exactly the kind of transaction that could be listed in a GPA thread.

 

 

Jeez...now you want to report sales quietly between collectors? It's even a worse idea now...

 

Jim

 

Such sales couldn't remain "quiet", as they'd have to be detailed in the GPA thread.

[comicwiz]

Not to mention all the transactions occurring via PM. I get PMs all the time from people with Nedors or Actions for sale(and lately copies of Batman #1. Quite often, a deal is made without anyone else on the board being aware of it. This is exactly the kind of transaction that could be listed in a GPA thread.

 

 

This was exactly what I was thinking of Jeff as I read this thread, PM sales of books not even listed, that and marketplace sales threads with an anonymous buyer who wants to remain unknown for various reasons.

 

And as word of the VCC is spread more and more buyers who are not active members here will possibly be buying books.

 

How one gathers and submits all this info to GPA is beyond me, then again I never was good with numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe the data on buyer is utilized as a metric. How would GPA be able to validate it for eBay, Heritage or any consignor for that matter? Whenever I submitted data to GPA, it didn't include any information of the buyer.

 

One idea is if people are going to write out this information to submit via email to GPA, it might make sense for GPA to put together a simple web-based entry form. By doing so, it standardizes the data, and reduces the need to manually enter the information twice. Given such a scenario, I think it would make the most sense to register and login for access.

[nearmint]

Not to mention all the transactions occurring via PM. I get PMs all the time from people with Nedors or Actions for sale(and lately copies of Batman #1. Quite often, a deal is made without anyone else on the board being aware of it. This is exactly the kind of transaction that could be listed in a GPA thread.

 

 

This was exactly what I was thinking of Jeff as I read this thread, PM sales of books not even listed, that and marketplace sales threads with an anonymous buyer who wants to remain unknown for various reasons.

 

And as word of the VCC is spread more and more buyers who are not active members here will possibly be buying books.

 

How one gathers and submits all this info to GPA is beyond me, then again I never was good with numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe the data on buyer is utilized as a metric. How would GPA be able to validate it for eBay, Heritage or any consignor for that matter? Whenever I submitted data to GPA, it didn't include any information of the buyer.

 

One idea is if people are going to write out this information to submit via email to GPA, it might make sense for GPA to put together a simple web-based entry form. By doing so, it standardizes the data, and reduces the need to manually enter the information twice. Given such a scenario, I think it would make the most sense to register and login for access.

 

Interesting idea.

[awe4one]

My point, and I think you know this, is that the sales from the marketplace would be no more miniscule than Mark's, Rob's, Steve's, or Bill's, and George finds their sales significant enough to include, so why not ours?

 

I don't see the difference between our sales and those of "long time dealers". Sales are sales, and each and every one is as valuable as any other, regardless of how long the seller has been selling.

 

I'm sure you know they have a proven track record as dealers as well. Most here are not nor do have any record to speak of to back up those sales. That's the difference and it's key. We don't merit inclusion because we aren't dealers despite some pretending to be at times. There are slabs sold nationwide everyday that aren't reported to GPA for exactly the same reason. Why you and others think you merit special attention is mind numbing and frankly maybe you all need a break from this Forum to gather some perspective...

 

Jim

[DrWatson]

I'm sure the ppl of other forums feel their community is just as great as this one.

If they're dealers, why aren't they reporting to GPA as dealers then?

 

It may be the majority but it certainly isn't all of the sales. I've seen plenty of brand new posters either purchase with their first couple of posts or via PM. Should these then be excluded? What if two ppl on this forum, that know each other REALLY well, exchange a book via PM.. should this be reported then too?

 

Wasn't GPA started as a way to track auction sales and then later dealer sales as well? I guess to answer either of those questions you'd have to ask why they chose to use Heritage and eBay in the first place.. seems to me like they deemed the data to be valuable and others agreed.

 

To your comment that ppl don't shill or create fake sales on here. Why would they? What would the benefit be? People don't create eBay/CL/Heritage/whoever auctions and then quote "last CGC forum sale of XXX". So of course it doesn't happen now.

Exactly. People moan and groan all the time how the forum is becoming more and more like eBay. I believe that involving GPA would only begin to push farther in that direction. Anyone who thinks differently has blinders on. It will no longer be an arena for friends and acquaintances to buy and sell, but it will become a full blown marketing tool.

 

Not sure why that would happen. I don't think the atmosphere around here would change at all. We'd just have sales reported to GPA.

You are opening the door to an avenue of change. Change never starts out big. It starts out small and sneaks up on you. I'm not against change, but I don't want to try and put a genie back in the bottle either.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Why you and others think you merit special attention is mind numbing and frankly maybe you all need a break from this Forum to gather some perspective...

 

Jim

 

Out of order, Jim.

 

I can't recall insulting you, and I'd like the same courtesy. I'm not 'special', nor do I need special attention. However, I am responsible for a good number of transactions on particular books that would be useful to have included in GPA. For example, when I sold the Hulk #1 (6.5) earlier this year, it was actually a GPA high. CLink's copy went for more, but as they weren't reporting...

 

I'm simply interested in increasing the avenues of data capture, thus increasing the sampling, thus improving the accuracy. No more, no less.

 

There are pitfalls with recording sales from the Marketplace, but I'm not certain that they are insurmountable. You beg to differ. Let's keep it civil and can the tone, please.

[nearmint]

My point, and I think you know this, is that the sales from the marketplace would be no more miniscule than Mark's, Rob's, Steve's, or Bill's, and George finds their sales significant enough to include, so why not ours?

 

I don't see the difference between our sales and those of "long time dealers". Sales are sales, and each and every one is as valuable as any other, regardless of how long the seller has been selling.

 

I'm sure you know they have a proven track record as dealers as well. Most here are not nor do have any record to speak of to back up those sales. That's the difference and it's key. We don't merit inclusion because we aren't dealers despite some pretending to be at times. There are slabs sold nationwide everyday that aren't reported to GPA for exactly the same reason. Why you and others think you merit special attention is mind numbing and frankly maybe you all need a break from this Forum to gather some perspective...

 

Jim

 

I just don't buy into your idea that a sale has to be made by a dealer to have any merit. The marketplace would be the only source of sales data that GPA would receive where, if needed, verification could be made with bother the seller and the buyer. I have far more trust in that situation than I do in an ebay sale.

 

I don't think I merit "special attention", and frankly you come off as kind of a jerk for suggesting that I do. I merely believe that any sale, regardless if it's made by me, you, a random eBay seller, an auction house or long-time dealer, is worthy of submission to GPA.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Not to mention all the transactions occurring via PM. I get PMs all the time from people with Nedors or Actions for sale(and lately copies of Batman #1. Quite often, a deal is made without anyone else on the board being aware of it. This is exactly the kind of transaction that could be listed in a GPA thread.

 

 

Jeez...now you want to report sales quietly between collectors? It's even a worse idea now...

 

Jim

 

Such sales couldn't remain "quiet", as they'd have to be detailed in the GPA thread.

I have a problem with this. I will not lose a sale because of some perceived need to report all sales to GPA. I have purchased books anonymously here because quite frankly it isn't anyone's business what I choose to own. Having said that, I am far from being the most private board member who frequents the selling forum.

[nearmint]

Not to mention all the transactions occurring via PM. I get PMs all the time from people with Nedors or Actions for sale(and lately copies of Batman #1. Quite often, a deal is made without anyone else on the board being aware of it. This is exactly the kind of transaction that could be listed in a GPA thread.

 

 

Jeez...now you want to report sales quietly between collectors? It's even a worse idea now...

 

Jim

 

Such sales couldn't remain "quiet", as they'd have to be detailed in the GPA thread.

I have a problem with this. I will not lose a sale because of some perceived need to report all sales to GPA. I have purchased books anonymously here because quite frankly it isn't anyone's business what I choose to own. Having said that, I am far from being the most private board member who frequents the selling forum.

 

No one would be forcing anyone to report sales if they didn't want to. As a seller, if a buyer asked me not to report it for privacy reasons, I would certainly respect that.

 

Or, maybe only George needs to know the buyer, if he even wants that info.

[DrWatson]

I'm not saying the idea isn't without merit. It's just that I would like the integrity of the selling forum remain what it is now. And yes, I know it isn't perfect, but what is perfect?

[Flaming_Telepath]

I'm not saying the idea isn't without merit. It's just that I would like the integrity of the selling forum remain what it is now. And yes, I know it isn't perfect, but what is perfect?

 

[DrWatson]

I'm not saying the idea isn't without merit. It's just that I would like the integrity of the selling forum remain what it is now. And yes, I know it isn't perfect, but what is perfect?

 

The only thing that saves your azz is the fact that onions are vegetables.

[Murph]

what makes this forum's sales any more valid or reportable then any other comic book message board's out there?

 

What makes them less valid than any auction house, consignment site or individual dealer? Sales are sales.

 

So every message board should have its' sales quoted via GPA..? Sales are sales, right?

Another point to keep in mind, GPA advertises itself on their main page as "GPA for CGC Comics is the world's first analysis and reporting service for online auction and dealer comic book sales".

[nearmint]

what makes this forum's sales any more valid or reportable then any other comic book message board's out there?

 

What makes them less valid than any auction house, consignment site or individual dealer? Sales are sales.

 

So every message board should have its' sales quoted via GPA..? Sales are sales, right?

Another point to keep in mind, GPA advertises itself on their main page as "GPA for CGC Comics is the world's first analysis and reporting service for online auction and dealer comic book sales".

 

As is often stated these days, the definition of "dealer" in the current world of comics is pretty unclear. George doesn't seem to require that comics be your main source of income to be able to submit data, or he wouldn't have invited esquire. I have a website, and have had it for longer than Mark has had his. Does that make me a dealer?

 

To me, it's all semantics. As a subscriber to GPA, I would like to be aware of ALL sales of a comic that I'm looking up, not just those done by an auction house or "dealer".

[Sardo Numspar]

As long as they are confirmed sales yes. I wonder where cash/book trades would come in though.

 

I can confirm sale of the Cap 46

[comicwiz]

My point, and I think you know this, is that the sales from the marketplace would be no more miniscule than Mark's, Rob's, Steve's, or Bill's, and George finds their sales significant enough to include, so why not ours?

 

I don't see the difference between our sales and those of "long time dealers". Sales are sales, and each and every one is as valuable as any other, regardless of how long the seller has been selling.

 

I'm sure you know they have a proven track record as dealers as well. Most here are not nor do have any record to speak of to back up those sales. That's the difference and it's key. We don't merit inclusion because we aren't dealers despite some pretending to be at times. There are slabs sold nationwide everyday that aren't reported to GPA for exactly the same reason. Why you and others think you merit special attention is mind numbing and frankly maybe you all need a break from this Forum to gather some perspective...

 

Jim

 

I understand your apprehension, but I believe it is rather short-sighted. The Internet has truly become this dynamic and open place for people to meet, share opinions and form communities. The social network that has evolved places Web audiences in control, demanding change at every turn, and usually steering clear away from traditional ways of thinking that deem change as a disruptive force. At the most basic level, the Internet has pushed identity validation efforts to the edge, and the tipping point is that its users control content, not the content providers controlling its users. This is an important point to consider because at some point, every mechanism ever designed which was meant to give us a snapshot of a persons online identity or reputation has faltered. Remember how people used to tell you that you couldn't get a loan from the bank with bad credit - then the sub-prime market collapsed.

 

Ideally, it would be great if we could take our online identities around with us like some credit report, and use them like an ID card in our wallet. This form of reputation currency would be valuable in matters such as the one presented here. And while projects like Google's open social are one step in this direction, I believe it would be impossible to realize this goal because establishing systems of trust online requires more than identifying who you are, where you live, and what car you drive. Trust is earned, and there is no rapid way to gain the kinship of a community. If you want an example, think about eBay's ID verify system - remember the cute little icon they used to use for new members with 0 feedback that wanted to sell. Most eBay users saw right through the scheme, and would not be fooled into believing any verification process could replace the hard work that went into earning reputation points through eBay's feedback system.

 

If you can agree at some level with the above, then lets place it into the context of validating sales data. First, we should keep in mind that the main driver for GPA is that its main competitors are a printed guide which reports figures once a year, and any publicly available sales data from auction/consigment sites. If GPA models itself in such a way as to reflect as close a picture of real-time changes to sales figures as possible, and aggregates that data in a manner that is rapid and easy to access, what would it matter if its arriving from an email or a data feed? If I were using GPA like some obsessive compulsive trader that used the stock ticker like my life-line, then I might question the time aspect in populating sales data from an email rather than a syndicated feed. However, if the issue revolved around reliability and intergrity of the submitter, then I would have to say that a complete picture of CGC sales ought to incorporate as many vendors as possible, and this notion of including only "proven" contributors is antiquated, as I'd much rather accept the contributions of a long-standing member who has been active in our community over some eBay seller that runs private auctions or has to use eBay's verification to buy their way to selling.

[Dale Roberts]

while we are talking about reporting sales, I think it is time that marketplace sales should be reported to the IRS.

[nearmint]

while we are talking about reporting sales, I think it is time that marketplace sales should be reported to the IRS.