Is it time for CGC board marketplace sales to be reported to GPA?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

 

GPA is pretty much no good when it comes to GA. SA and up, great. But no GA.

[DrWatson]

hello all...

 

I have communicated with George, albeit briefly in the past, because while I generally don't personally use GPA (I find it too limited with respects to Golden Age, and that is all I buy and sell), I Thought GPA could benefit from some of the purchases and sales that I make during the year(s)...

 

Perfect example, during my recent selling thread, do you know how many PM's I got saying "I based my offer on GPA..." or "there are no sales data on GPA, how are you arriving at your price" and I would have to counter that GPA is "not accurate to current market" or "outdated info " or "sales are non existent on GPA, but I have bought and sold this book for "$X", etc so I know what I paid for it, or what I would pay for it " or "info is too limited" ...etc... if you pay attention to the market, you don't need GPA sales data from a Heritage sale 4 years ago, to know what a book "should" be currently selling for....but I digress...

 

that said, I have bought and sold several million dollars of comics over the past few years, and if someone thinks that my purchases or sales would not benefit GPA , then so be it...I offered to Report to George, but he declined (I guess for the logistics reasons), but the bottom line is that Nearmint is correct, there are some serious sales that happen on this board, that would benefit future buyers and sellers...so, just pay attention to the board (and to ebay, and heritage, and comic link, etc), and don't worry if it is reported on GPA or not, I don't, and if you goto sell a book and someone won't buy it because there is no GPA data, then that is life (thumbs u

 

gator

Now, if only we could get you as fashion forward on that hair...

[comicwiz]

Hi guys, just finished reading through all the posts (you guys type much faster than I read !)

 

Bottom line, we would only consider including sales from the forum if there was some mechanism (on the forum) to at least verify buyer X purchased from seller Y. In other words, some way to know that nearmint (for example) logged into some page in the forum and listed his book, and greggy (for example) clicking "something" that allowed the system to show he purchased it. It would require then at the least some further way of proving the transaction went through (i.e. money exchanged)

 

I understand the "but how do you verify other dealers/venues" argument, but the reality is that (as some have mentioned here) there are ways to check on sales (even on eBay, which is a whole other animal in itself). Also, we are dealing with single sources of information - this means any funny business will potentially expose that dealer/auction site (as opposed to keeping tabs on hundreds of individual buyers and sellers). Verifying each user on the forum and each sale, from our end, without some logging/online evidence of the sale is just not possible - at the moment, anyone can just list a book here and subsequently post that they'd just sold it via PM. Hardly any effort required and certainly at no cost to the individual.

 

It would require some kind of "forum exchange" in place that would allow a buyer and seller to transact with some evidence being captured of the purchase. GPA would then interact with this "forum exchange" and not individual sellers/buyers.

 

- George.

 

Thanks George. I had some thought to consider, and completely understand if you think they are way out there. Here goes. Provided of course you are will to work with email submissions, I wondered if working with some of the PayPal tools can meet some of your requirements?

 

As it is, most sales that go through the forum are PayPal only. I've only had one person mail me a cheque. In my own case, I either ask buyers to send payment to my PayPal ID or send them a payment request. If it is a payment request, I could make sure to include slab details required on your end (ie. title, issue, grade, etc.) in the description.

 

Would a PDF of the transaction summary/details do? In my mind, the date of sale portion would be more exacting with a PayPal detail/summary than an auction result, and more full proof because there is always a possibility the buyer doesn't fall through with the purchase and unless you are tracking relists and/or feedback of both buyer and seller, you might never know. I'm thinking that one way to validate the legitimacy of PayPal summary/details is by using the unique transaction ID and the url captured in the PDF (usually captured at the top of the page like a printout) which would show a valid payment session, and of course be pointing to the PayPal domain. This said, I would be inclined to blur out a customers address from the summary/details:

 

Really interesting stuff here. I think that it is worth considering for GPA to include the sales here.

 

And think how well it will help with the lowball offers accepted on books !

 

The PM derived sales activity that goes on here is significant. The best validator in my mind will always be the credit amount showing up in my account. One point that did come to mind (and this goes back to the Web entry form suggestion I made earlier), there may be a way to use PayPal's API (PayPal has a fairly extensive developer network) to validate PayPal's unique transaction ID's. My thinking here would be to still put a form together to validate the sales information, and in addtion, a field where you would enter the unique transaction ID. The form could have an autocheck feature (i.e. error/valid) that could tell you right away if the ID is valid or not, but it could also verify it upon submission and any fails would be automatically disregarded. Anyhow, I am posting this not to be insistent, but purely as a way of suggesting some possible solutions as I do believe there is a significant benefit by including sales that occur here.

[VintageComics]

Rick, the problem most people run into is that they don't have time to monitor every site all the time. People that do comics for a living can...most can't. One of the benefits of GPA is to offer consolidated info to collectors and dealers. It takes most of the leg work out of doing research. By recording more sales data we make GPA more accurate and informative. A win for everyone.

 

George thanks for reading this thread and considering recording forum sales, we'll work on hammering something credible out that works for all parties involved.

 

Doc, Rick should never have cut his golden locks after Chicago.

 

R.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Jo, fantastic idea...if Paypal has some for of validation that GPA can access that would be best. I wonder if it would likely keep track of refunds FROM that specific payment made as well, further making the data real and verifiable.

 

R.

 

 

[DrWatson]

You're next Sampson wannabe...

[gpanalysis]

The PM derived sales activity that goes on here is significant. The best validator in my mind will always be the credit amount showing up in my account. One point that did come to mind (and this goes back to the Web entry form suggestion I made earlier), there may be a way to use PayPal's API (PayPal has a fairly extensive developer network) to validate PayPal's unique transaction ID's. My thinking here would be to still put a form together to validate the sales information, and in addtion, a field where you would enter the unique transaction ID. The form could have an autocheck feature (i.e. error/valid), but it could also verify it upon submission and any fails would be automatically disregarded. Anyhow, I am posting this not to be insistent, but purely as a way of suggesting some possible solutions as I do believe there is a significant benefit by including sales that occur here.

 

Hi Joseph, long time how are things?

 

The form (with PayPal transaction validation) sounds like a good idea. This needs to be external to GPA and something that is developed/run on the boards (or by someone close to it). We [GPA] would not want to get into the business of creating exchanges or transaction recording software for the obvious reasons that this would be seen by current data providers as a conflict of interest.

 

I haven't looked into PayPal's API for a while, but if what you mention could be realized, then it would be the way to go. An external form could confirm the validity of a transaction, and once confirmed, additional information could be added on the sale(s) - simply the amount and barcode number of the CGC book. Additionally it would require some validation of the person submitting the information. This data could be held in a database which could be accessed by us on a regular basis for the purpose of inclusion into our own tables.

[comicwiz]

Jo, fantastic idea...if Paypal has some for of validation that GPA can access that would be best. I wonder if it would likely keep track of refunds FROM that specific payment made as well, further making the data real and verifiable.

 

R.

 

 

If a validator is possible using PP API, you could do some fancy things with validation including being alerted on any chargebacks. This would however require quite a bit of familiarization with PP's API, as each error would generate a unique code that would mean different things. So essentially, you could program something to work like a sniffer on the transaction ID and monitor it over several months for changes (or at least the average course of time whereby a chargeback might occur). The one thing that is great about using more exacting variables as a metric is that you start to factor in new dynamics. The downside is that context starts to factor in, and while most see this as a plus, what I mean here by downside is more of philosophical/ethical issue - (i.e. to decide whether a chargeback should impact the sales information as the book will already be in the buyers hands by the time a chargeback is reported, and despite the seller getting dinged with a bad sale, some might still see it as a valid sale figure).

[G.A.tor]

Rick, the problem most people run into is that they don't have time to monitor every site all the time. People that do comics for a living can...most can't. One of the benefits of GPA is to offer consolidated info to collectors and dealers. It takes most of the leg work out of doing research. By recording more sales data we make GPA more accurate and informative. A win for everyone.

 

George thanks for reading this thread and considering recording forum sales, we'll work on hammering something credible out that works for all parties involved.

 

Doc, Rick should never have cut his golden locks after Chicago.

 

R.

 

I hear you, RD...and I am a bit on the spoiled side, that I have time to do just that, monitor the market (at least the GA market)....but, my concern with Golden Age in respects to GPA, is that many (not sure if it is still a majority or not) sales 1) are raw, 2) are private sales (raw and cgc), such as these boards... when one buys or sells a "rare" GA book, that there is no sales history on (public or GPA), then wouldn't if then benefit GPA to report this?

 

another perfect example....earlier this year, 3 diff CGC Copies of Amazing Man 22 sold, via these boards (directly and indirectly)...a cgc 4.5 mod restored copy for $2500, a cgc 4.0 blue copy for $3500 and a cgc 3.5 Cosmic Aeroplane copy for $3000... now, if you rely on overstreet or GPA, you wouldn't have a clue that this book sells for that or "should" sell for that (it just doesn't change hands often enough)...but, would it not benefit GPA to have this info?...

 

or, the Captain America 36 in cgc 7.5 I have...several folks think $3800 is way high, because that is what "GPA says"...but, the sales on GPA are old and outdated...I purchased this copy earlier this year for $3800...had I of been able to report this sale (or the person that sold it to me), then would that be beneficial to a perspective buyer that subscribes to GPA? maybe...one of the books that was quoted in GPA as having last sold for $4200 or so several years ago, I know has changed hands at $9,000 within the last year.... yet, no mention of it in GPA, so again, it generally paints a very inaccurate picture of the Golden age (in many, if not the majority of cases)... only someone trying to resell a recently purchased Heritage book (or some other reporting seller), would find having GPA beneficial, such as the Captain America 46 I sold...I bought it via Heritage, so having that sales data might have reinforced the buyers decision...

 

my goal, would be to have the most current and "accurate" (verifiable) info as possible, especially with respects to Golden Age...GPA seems to be that avenue, and I would love to support them, but with all the (maybe formerly) missing Clink sales, and all the board and other sales not able to be reported, it just doesn't "work" for me

 

on a side note, growing the hair long one last time (as long as I can keep giving my wife excuses )

[comicwiz]

Hi Joseph, long time how are things?

 

Hi George

 

It has been a long time - a lot has changed since we last spoke. We should reconnect sometime soon.

 

 

The form (with PayPal transaction validation) sounds like a good idea. This needs to be external to GPA and something that is developed/run on the boards (or by someone close to it). We [GPA] would not want to get into the business of creating exchanges or transaction recording software for the obvious reasons that this would be seen by current data providers as a conflict of interest.

 

This makes perfect sense to me, and this thought did run through my mind.

 

I haven't looked into PayPal's API for a while, but if what you mention could be realized, then it would be the way to go. An external form could confirm the validity of a transaction, and once confirmed, additional information could be added on the sale(s) - simply the amount and barcode number of the CGC book. Additionally it would require some validation of the person submitting the information. This data could be held in a database which could be accessed by us on a regular basis for the purpose of inclusion into our own tables.

 

I agree - the user validation is a key part. I'm thinking they would need to register (approval should maybe be profile-based using some factors like past seller experience - own site, eBay, or use of consignors) and access to the form would need to be logged on your end as an audit mechanism.

[nearmint]

Hi Joseph, long time how are things?

 

Hi George

 

It has been a long time - a lot has changed since we last spoke. We should reconnect sometime soon.

 

 

The form (with PayPal transaction validation) sounds like a good idea. This needs to be external to GPA and something that is developed/run on the boards (or by someone close to it). We [GPA] would not want to get into the business of creating exchanges or transaction recording software for the obvious reasons that this would be seen by current data providers as a conflict of interest.

 

This makes perfect sense to me, and this thought did run through my mind.

 

I haven't looked into PayPal's API for a while, but if what you mention could be realized, then it would be the way to go. An external form could confirm the validity of a transaction, and once confirmed, additional information could be added on the sale(s) - simply the amount and barcode number of the CGC book. Additionally it would require some validation of the person submitting the information. This data could be held in a database which could be accessed by us on a regular basis for the purpose of inclusion into our own tables.

 

I agree - the user validation is a key part. I'm thinking they would need to register (approval should maybe be profile-based using some factors like past seller experience - own site, eBay, or use of consignors) and access to the form would need to be logged on your end as an audit mechanism.

 

Smart people are awesome.

[nearmint]

Rick, the problem most people run into is that they don't have time to monitor every site all the time. People that do comics for a living can...most can't. One of the benefits of GPA is to offer consolidated info to collectors and dealers. It takes most of the leg work out of doing research. By recording more sales data we make GPA more accurate and informative. A win for everyone.

 

George thanks for reading this thread and considering recording forum sales, we'll work on hammering something credible out that works for all parties involved.

 

Doc, Rick should never have cut his golden locks after Chicago.

 

R.

 

I hear you, RD...and I am a bit on the spoiled side, that I have time to do just that, monitor the market (at least the GA market)....but, my concern with Golden Age in respects to GPA, is that many (not sure if it is still a majority or not) sales 1) are raw, 2) are private sales (raw and cgc), such as these boards... when one buys or sells a "rare" GA book, that there is no sales history on (public or GPA), then wouldn't if then benefit GPA to report this?

 

another perfect example....earlier this year, 3 diff CGC Copies of Amazing Man 22 sold, via these boards (directly and indirectly)...a cgc 4.5 mod restored copy for $2500, a cgc 4.0 blue copy for $3500 and a cgc 3.5 Cosmic Aeroplane copy for $3000... now, if you rely on overstreet or GPA, you wouldn't have a clue that this book sells for that or "should" sell for that (it just doesn't change hands often enough)...but, would it not benefit GPA to have this info?...

 

or, the Captain America 36 in cgc 7.5 I have...several folks think $3800 is way high, because that is what "GPA says"...but, the sales on GPA are old and outdated...I purchased this copy earlier this year for $3800...had I of been able to report this sale (or the person that sold it to me), then would that be beneficial to a perspective buyer that subscribes to GPA? maybe...one of the books that was quoted in GPA as having last sold for $4200 or so several years ago, I know has changed hands at $9,000 within the last year.... yet, no mention of it in GPA, so again, it generally paints a very inaccurate picture of the Golden age (in many, if not the majority of cases)... only someone trying to resell a recently purchased Heritage book (or some other reporting seller), would find having GPA beneficial, such as the Captain America 46 I sold...I bought it via Heritage, so having that sales data might have reinforced the buyers decision...

 

my goal, would be to have the most current and "accurate" (verifiable) info as possible, especially with respects to Golden Age...GPA seems to be that avenue, and I would love to support them, but with all the (maybe formerly) missing Clink sales, and all the board and other sales not able to be reported, it just doesn't "work" for me

 

on a side note, growing the hair long one last time (as long as I can keep giving my wife excuses )

 

Rick, your post illustrates perfectly why I started this thread. The value of GPA is in direct proportion to the comprehensiveness of the sales included in it. If the smart folks around here can find a way(and it sounds like maybe they are) to safely and accurately submit data, the entire hobby benefits.

[VintageComics]

Rick it sounds like we are on the same wavelength.

 

(thumbs u

[G.A.tor]

Rick, the problem most people run into is that they don't have time to monitor every site all the time. People that do comics for a living can...most can't. One of the benefits of GPA is to offer consolidated info to collectors and dealers. It takes most of the leg work out of doing research. By recording more sales data we make GPA more accurate and informative. A win for everyone.

 

George thanks for reading this thread and considering recording forum sales, we'll work on hammering something credible out that works for all parties involved.

 

Doc, Rick should never have cut his golden locks after Chicago.

 

R.

 

I hear you, RD...and I am a bit on the spoiled side, that I have time to do just that, monitor the market (at least the GA market)....but, my concern with Golden Age in respects to GPA, is that many (not sure if it is still a majority or not) sales 1) are raw, 2) are private sales (raw and cgc), such as these boards... when one buys or sells a "rare" GA book, that there is no sales history on (public or GPA), then wouldn't if then benefit GPA to report this?

 

another perfect example....earlier this year, 3 diff CGC Copies of Amazing Man 22 sold, via these boards (directly and indirectly)...a cgc 4.5 mod restored copy for $2500, a cgc 4.0 blue copy for $3500 and a cgc 3.5 Cosmic Aeroplane copy for $3000... now, if you rely on overstreet or GPA, you wouldn't have a clue that this book sells for that or "should" sell for that (it just doesn't change hands often enough)...but, would it not benefit GPA to have this info?...

 

or, the Captain America 36 in cgc 7.5 I have...several folks think $3800 is way high, because that is what "GPA says"...but, the sales on GPA are old and outdated...I purchased this copy earlier this year for $3800...had I of been able to report this sale (or the person that sold it to me), then would that be beneficial to a perspective buyer that subscribes to GPA? maybe...one of the books that was quoted in GPA as having last sold for $4200 or so several years ago, I know has changed hands at $9,000 within the last year.... yet, no mention of it in GPA, so again, it generally paints a very inaccurate picture of the Golden age (in many, if not the majority of cases)... only someone trying to resell a recently purchased Heritage book (or some other reporting seller), would find having GPA beneficial, such as the Captain America 46 I sold...I bought it via Heritage, so having that sales data might have reinforced the buyers decision...

 

my goal, would be to have the most current and "accurate" (verifiable) info as possible, especially with respects to Golden Age...GPA seems to be that avenue, and I would love to support them, but with all the (maybe formerly) missing Clink sales, and all the board and other sales not able to be reported, it just doesn't "work" for me

 

on a side note, growing the hair long one last time (as long as I can keep giving my wife excuses )

 

Rick, your post illustrates perfectly why I started this thread. The value of GPA is in direct proportion to the comprehensiveness of the sales included in it. If the smart folks around here can find a way(and it sounds like maybe they are) to safely and accurately submit data, the entire hobby benefits.

I agree 100%.... that said, I am still happy to continue to lend my services (GA pricing advice) at the same current rate I charge (free )... phone calls, PM's and emails are fun for me (what is the point of having all this useless knowledge, if you can't share it!), so keep them coming!

[comicwiz]

It looks like it might possible

[nearmint]

So what's the next step?

[G.A.tor]

something else to consider, many times folks pay with check or money order..or, even credit card direct...paypal is not nec. the payment method of choice?

[DrWatson]

something else to consider, many times folks pay with check or money order..or, even credit card direct...paypal is not nec. the payment method of choice?

Here, here.

[VintageComics]

something else to consider, many times folks pay with check or money order..or, even credit card direct...paypal is not nec. the payment method of choice?

 

I've brought that up with George already. We'll see what he thinks.

 

I know that when I make a big sale I prefer check/MO over paypal.

 

R.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

one other point to make, a few folks seemed concerned about the validity of the sales reported...I hope no one here is "naive" enough to think that those that are currently reporting to GPA, have never manipulated a sale to get certain sales data reported (I am sure it is the exception, and not the rule, but it does happen, and happens probably far more frequently that it would happen here)....

 

I know, first hand, of several sales that appear on GPA, but that never "really" took place (or didn't take place at the $ level reported)...and I also know of sales on GPA (remember, I have WAY too much time on my hands) that appear that also didn't actually take place, though there was no deception involved, just an error...

 

so, let's not kid ourselves that this doesn't happen...while it could also happen via this board (like any other sales venue), I am sure it would not taint the current pool any more than it already is, and would likely lead to more information for folks that subscribe to GPA, which would seem to be a "good thing"...

 

ultimately, folks will pay what they are willing to pay, irregardless...