Jack Kirby sigs 0

[CollectingStanLee]

I just received my Fantastic Four #5 3.0 with Jack Kirby's signature on the splash page. I have no picture of it because it's already slabbed. Eventually I'm going to crack it out and get Stan Lee to sign the front as a witnessed signature. This brings my total collection of Kirby signatures to 3, a symptom of how hard it has been for me to get his sig on key Marvels.

 

Since Kirby stopped cooperating with CGC a long time ago (yes, it's the same old joke), his signatures are of course not certified, but having some experience at this, I'm satisfied that the sigs I have by him are indeed authentic.

 

So my question is this: What is the value of a Kirby sig? Let me qualify that by asking people that feel a Kirby sig has no value at all, if such people exist, to please stay out of the conversation. I don't think I need to explain the virtues of Jack Kirby or the influence he had on comic books in this forum, being the signature room. Also note, that my Kirby sigs are not for sale and never will be, so there is no point in lowballing it thinking I'm going to sell them at some ridiculous price because that's not why I'm asking.

 

I mentioned in another post that comic book collecting is an investment-driven hobby, and I want this thread to be a serious discussion about that investment as it relates to Jack Kirby sigs on Marvel comic books.

 

What I have so far:

 

Avengers #3 2.5 CGC SS Stan Lee (also signed by Stan Lee & Jack Kirby on splash page)

Fantastic Four #5 3.0 CGC (Signed by Kirby on splash page) -- I plan to get stan on cover

Marvel Milestone X-Men #1 6.5 CGC SS Stan Lee (also dynamic forces Jack Kirby sig on cover)

 

If this thread really gets going I'll post some pictures. I'm really interested to know what you think about Kirby sigs and values, so please chime in.

[Joel Elad]

I've always been interested in this question too, and I think the honest answer is that it depends on what Kirby signed. There are Captain America prints from 1976 that Kirby signed that don't go for that much money because there are a lot of those signed prints out there. Kirby in the later years worked on an Independent book, whose name I'm now blanking on, but when you look at the artwork, you see Kirby and his influence, and there are Kirby signed copies of those independent comic books floating around that don't sell for *that* much given that it's a Kirby signature.

 

Years and years ago, Wizard had a failed experiment where they tried to assign a value to everyone's signature, and Kirby's was among the top at that time, at $500, I think. This "signature price guide" lasted a total of 2 issues, if I remember correctly, and was quickly pulled and never discussed again.

 

I would think, for a Silver Age Marvel book, it could add hundreds (or even thousands, to the right book) of dollars in value, but it's so subjective. You find that one Kirby collector that's gotta have that signed comic, and you can set your price.

 

To answer your question, I think the Avengers #3 and FF #5 would see a substantial price increase from the signature (definitely get Stan to sign the FF #5) if you can wait for the right buyer. Throwing it up on eBay, probably at least a $200 to $300 bump, maybe more. Just my guess.

 

I only have 1 Kirby signed comic, FF #4, probably in G or G+, I got Stan Lee to sign the splash page along with Kirby, it's one of the 3 books I doubt I'd ever sell for any amount of money. Hmm, I never thought of getting Stan to sign it again and CGC SS it. Food for thought...

 

I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts on this topic, I think I've rambled enough.

 

Joel

[NEXTLVL]

i didnt even know cgc was around when kirby was alive?. also i wouldnt get it slabbed then you can never enjoy the splash sig. i guess if you are going for resale yeah slab it but whats the point if you are never gonna sell it !!!!!!!!

[JazzMan]

i didnt even know cgc was around when kirby was alive?. also i wouldnt get it slabbed then you can never enjoy the splash sig. i guess if you are going for resale yeah slab it but whats the point if you are never gonna sell it !!!!!!!!

 

He wasn't. Jack died February 6, 1994 which is about 6 years before CGC ever encased a book. I think that's what the original poster meant when he said that Jack didn't cooperate with CGC.

[JazzMan]

Oh, and by the way, here's my personal Jack Kirby signed book.

 

[kidcolt]

So how would you know which is authentic? Unless you original obtained one yourself or if there is some Kirby authentic items available comparing one to your first one would really be pointless as the first one could still be fake. In sportscards there are certain companies (PSA for example) who will say if an autograph is authentic even from deceased athletes or those who decide not to sign for big companies. These are not 100% safe as there are still room for error and it is mostly a judgement call however at least those companies have old contracts and stuff which they use to compare. It would be a great thing for CGC to start doing.

 

If I could get a Kirby signature that I knew to be 100% authentic then I would jump at it. I would expect it tocost at least what a Frazetta SS would or maybe even more. The problem there is that the Frazetta can be on whatever book you choose plus it will be cgc ss authentic certified by a witness.

[seanfingh]

 

I would not pay a premium for a copy that had an unauthenticated Kirby signature. I might pay a small premium for a book that had impeccable provenance; for example, if a collector or dealer that I know and trust had it signed themselves. I would probably choose a book like Jazzman's over another comparatively priced copy in the same grade, just on the chance that the King's signature was real.

[CollectingStanLee]

Jazzman, that ASM #1 is just awesome. I agree that the lack of certification hurts the value in terms of straight resale. Also, Joel mentioned something interesting which was that there is no guide for signature values like there is for unsigned books. What we're left with then is following GPA and eBay for comparable sales.

 

Since it isn't possible to get a certified Jack Kirby sig, as a collector, one has to make do with what is available. There was an amazing artist named Jack Kirby, who signed relatively few (compared to Stan for example) marvel comic books on the splash page, and if you examine these signatures carefully, you can at least determine that the signature is not new. Given that the Kirby sigs are not yet liquid gold, there is no real incentive for forgers en masse, especially since the market is uneasy about them. Nevertheless, they are still worth collecting.

 

It's really up to us as collectors to assign the value and perhaps some future generation will rely on us to have put together the best known instances of his sig, as long as we document our collections. I value my Kirby sigs very highly, as in never going to sell, although I do agree with the point about not overpaying for them due to the lack of provenance. Seems like it's more or less a game of chance to come upon one of these. Less than 1% of my sig collection are Jack Kirbys and I suspect that ratio is more the norm for gold label junkies.

 

Grail, I may end up bidding against you someday for that Hulk #1, that is one heck of book.

 

On the point of the splash page in slabbed book, the obvious answer there is to photograph it before it's slabbed or crack it out, photograph, then reslab, to enjoy the signature. Here's a couple of my Kirby sigs:

 

[SignatureSelect]

well that book is awesome and it it the closest you will get to having a Kirby Signature Series.

[JazzMan]

Jazzman, that ASM #1 is just awesome. I agree that the lack of certification hurts the value in terms of straight resale. Also, Joel mentioned something interesting which was that there is no guide for signature values like there is for unsigned books. What we're left with then is following GPA and eBay for comparable sales.

 

Since it isn't possible to get a certified Jack Kirby sig, as a collector, one has to make do with what is available. There was an amazing artist named Jack Kirby, who signed relatively few (compared to Stan for example) marvel comic books on the splash page, and if you examine these signatures carefully, you can at least determine that the signature is not new. Given that the Kirby sigs are not yet liquid gold, there is no real incentive for forgers en masse, especially since the market is uneasy about them. Nevertheless, they are still worth collecting.

 

It's really up to us as collectors to assign the value and perhaps some future generation will rely on us to have put together the best known instances of his sig, as long as we document our collections. I value my Kirby sigs very highly, as in never going to sell, although I do agree with the point about not overpaying for them due to the lack of provenance. Seems like it's more or less a game of chance to come upon one of these. Less than 1% of my sig collection are Jack Kirbys and I suspect that ratio is more the norm for gold label junkies.

 

Grail, I may end up bidding against you someday for that Hulk #1, that is one heck of book.

 

On the point of the splash page in slabbed book, the obvious answer there is to photograph it before it's slabbed or crack it out, photograph, then reslab, to enjoy the signature. Here's a couple of my Kirby sigs:

 

You know it's absolutely true, especially in a slabbed book where you can't really see the signature, since Kirby's generally signed the first page and seldom the cover. Generally signed in the interior or as a qualified book, probably isn't as monetarily significant as an SS book which has been authenticated. But in instances when there is no chance to get it, it's definitely worth it to have rather than to have not.

[kidcolt]

On the two pieces pictured there are a lot of differences in the two signatures (or it looks that way in the scans). I love the look of the first one, awesome picture and the autographs really standout.

Edited October 18, 2008 by kidcolt

[CAP Freak]

On the two pieces pictured there are a lot of differences in the two signatures (or it looks that way in the scans). I love the look of the first one, awesome picture and the autographs really standout.

One is a ball-point pen, one is a marker.

[kidcolt]

Signatures do change over time. It shouldn't matter if its a pen or marker, loops and sharp crisp marks should still remain the same. Just look at the J in Jack. The bottom loop (furthest bottom point to the left) comes in on the bottom but goes out on the pen auto. The loop for the top of the J on the pen auto starts in the middle with a straight crisp line that comes to a point and then goes up, the marker is a loop right from the start. Kirby using a marker or pen shouldn't make that drastic of a difference on those 2 autographs. There are other big differences. I am not saying that they are not both authentic but I am saying that it will be tough for anyone to tell which autographs are authentic because there is no certified witness.

 

The other side of the arguement is the similarities. There are some so do one look at the similarities or the differences? Great topic collectingstanlee, I enjoy reading all the comments on both sides of the discussion.

[CollectingStanLee]

Signatures not only change over time, but vary drastically, especially when the signer is doing many in one session. I've personally witnessed many many Stan Lee sigs and they do vary quite a bit. Once you've seen a number of sigs by an artist, you get a sense for what is consistent in how they sign. Then you take into account forensic factors, like how it's signed, and when it was supposedly signed. I'm not quite up to FBI levels on things like that, but I could see clearly that on the Avengers #3, the sigs looked like they had been there for a very long time.

 

Kirby apparently signed 2000 copies for Dynamic Forces of the X-men milestone issue. I have the original certificate from Dynamic Forces. You hardly ever see these books on the market because people hang onto them. I have a second copy, different numbered issue. The certificates are consistent. I will eventually get that one signed by Stan too, knock on wood.

 

Here are some tips to spot Kirby fakes on Marvel books, if they exist:

 

1. Signatures on the cover. Kirby mostly signed the splash page on older Marvel books. Dynamic Forces an obvious exception.

2. Person selling has a lot of kirby sigs. Not likely. If so, require photo proof of signing.

3. Signatures are sharpie. A lot of the old splash page sigs are pen or pencil.

4. The signed comic book is high grade. In the time before CGC, when Kirby was actually signing, collectors who traditionally valued the comic books would have felt the addition of the sig was too risky for resale value.

 

These are just my guidelines, not hard fast rules. To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen that many Kirby sigs yet, I'm still developing my expertise. I go with my gut when all else fails. My confidence is high that the ones I own are authentic, and since the market doesn't really factor a Kirby sig so high, there isn't much incentive for criminals and forgers.

 

The person who sold me the Kirby signed ff #5 did not factor the signature at all in price. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm looking forward to it when I crack it out in the future.

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

One popped up on Ebay (I like looking for Kirby-signed books) with this signature. I would imagine it's not Kirby's, and not a very good effort if someone is trying to forge it - which makes me think it's just a notation.

 

[seanfingh]

 

Not a sig.

[Marvels-migration]

I know this an older thread and I am new at this so please be patient because I've JUST joined. I have a Strange Tales 101 with a Jack Kirby signature on the splash page in a maker. We called them Magic Marker then and this is a fine point. I know it's real and wanted to know what it's worth? A friend got this for me many years ago. I was an embarrassed youngster. I just about wet my pants when meeting him. I will post a picture of it. That's when I figure out how. I have an older HP Photosmart M417 I would be interested in ALL feedback. The comic is Bright, Glossy, White pages. I will Grade it LOWER because Grade is subjective. At minimum 4.5. As you can see not CGC. I was thinking of trading or selling it although it would break my heart. I have continuous runs from the 50's and 60's. Any reply would be helpful, but this is an old thread so I'm not sure if anyone will Thank you for your time everyone.

 

Marvels

[rtecbot]

Just picked up an Avengers 1 off the bay & wanted to check is this a Kirby signature?

[Goldeneye]

Just picked up an Avengers 1 off the bay & wanted to check is this a Kirby signature?

That is a Jade Kurley signature often mistaken for Jack Kirby. All jokes aside it looks like the real deal as far as a Kirby signature goes.

[alex holt]

This is my grail, Black Panther #1 (1977) signed by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee.  

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by alex holt