Pedigreed comics & The registry

[dikran]

Not sure if this has already been addressed (the search option is very limited, I find), but why don't pedigreed books get higher scores than non-pedigreed books? There is a rarity & considerable value difference between the two.

 

Please enlighten me, cuz my Green River Avengers 38 sure didn't cost anywhere near 70$

[djpinkpanther67]

I feel Peds shouldn't get any higher designation than a like graded copy (think Ped with miswrap over a non Ped with perfect registration). However, I do feel that a book with a superior PQ should get 5 points or so higher than that of a book with the next lower PQ. (WP should get 5 points higher than OWW; OWW should get 5 points higher than OW and so forth.)

Just my opinion of course

[seanfingh]

 

It messes up the algorithm. Plus it is too subjective. It's so much easier to say that all 9.4s are created equal. Plus, if you open the door to Ped bumps there are people who want to do PQ or QP bumps and it gets to be a mess. It's hard enough to keep up with adding sets and everything without subjective stuff messing with the algorithms. I'm not saying you are wrong with anything you said, but given the choice of doing something simple or something complicated, simple wins.

[DrWatson]

It messes up the algorithm. Plus it is too subjective. It's so much easier to say that all 9.4s are created equal. Plus, if you open the door to Ped bumps there are people who want to do PQ or QP bumps and it gets to be a mess. It's hard enough to keep up with adding sets and everything without subjective stuff messing with the algorithms. I'm not saying you are wrong with anything you said, but given the choice of doing something simple or something complicated, simple wins.

Exactly. See Uncanny X-Men sets for complete f'up.

[mudbogger2]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

[seanfingh]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

It's typically not the "someone" that creates the pedigree. It is that they are typically found in a preternaturally nice state of preservation. I am a Silver/Bronze guy and will take the Pepsi challenge that Winnipegs, Western Penns and Curators are so sharp that they deserve to be set apart from other high grade copies.

[mschmidt]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

It's typically not the "someone" that creates the pedigree. It is that they are typically found in a preternaturally nice state of preservation. I am a Silver/Bronze guy and will take the Pepsi challenge that Winnipegs, Western Penns and Curators are so sharp that they deserve to be set apart from other high grade copies.

 

So ... you'd be able tell a 9.6 WP Winnipeg from a non-pedigreed 9.6 WP book just by looking at/examining it?

[Guardian Comics]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

It's typically not the "someone" that creates the pedigree. It is that they are typically found in a preternaturally nice state of preservation. I am a Silver/Bronze guy and will take the Pepsi challenge that Winnipegs, Western Penns and Curators are so sharp that they deserve to be set apart from other high grade copies.

 

So ... you'd be able tell a 9.6 WP Winnipeg from a non-pedigreed 9.6 WP book just by looking at/examining it?

 

Absa freaking loutely, I could also do the same with a White Mountain, and Ohio as well

 

Jim

[Guardian Comics]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

Yep (thumbs u

 

Jim

[seanfingh]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

It's typically not the "someone" that creates the pedigree. It is that they are typically found in a preternaturally nice state of preservation. I am a Silver/Bronze guy and will take the Pepsi challenge that Winnipegs, Western Penns and Curators are so sharp that they deserve to be set apart from other high grade copies.

 

So ... you'd be able tell a 9.6 WP Winnipeg from a non-pedigreed 9.6 WP book just by looking at/examining it?

 

That's not what I meant by taking the Pepsi challenge, but I can see exactly how you would interpret it as such. I might be able to tell a W. Penn copy based on ink reflectivity. But I've only owned 4 of them and none of them have been raw so I haven't felt or smelled them. I would be willing to be that Curators feel or smell a little different as well, but have only owned slabbed copies of those as well.

 

I merely meant to state that they are so nice, as a group, that they deserve to be treated as a group and the provenance preserved, as they are more than just high grade copies.

 

 

 

 

[mschmidt]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

It's typically not the "someone" that creates the pedigree. It is that they are typically found in a preternaturally nice state of preservation. I am a Silver/Bronze guy and will take the Pepsi challenge that Winnipegs, Western Penns and Curators are so sharp that they deserve to be set apart from other high grade copies.

 

So ... you'd be able tell a 9.6 WP Winnipeg from a non-pedigreed 9.6 WP book just by looking at/examining it?

 

That's not what I meant by taking the Pepsi challenge, but I can see exactly how you would interpret it as such. I might be able to tell a W. Penn copy based on ink reflectivity. But I've only owned 4 of them and none of them have been raw so I haven't felt or smelled them. I would be willing to be that Curators feel or smell a little different as well, but have only owned slabbed copies of those as well.

 

I merely meant to state that they are so nice, as a group, that they deserve to be treated as a group and the provenance preserved, as they are more than just high grade copies.

 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong here - I think that pedigree designations are terrific, and wholeheartedly support the praise that is lavished upon exceptional OO copies w/ a back story.

 

My question was just about the whole Pepsi challenge thing - a slabbed pedigree book has a grade just like any other CGC book which is the measure of the "exceptionalness" of that particular book.

 

I fully realize that, say, not all CGC 9.4 (even with the same PQ) books are completely alike, but one would naturally assume that a stack of CGC 9.4 WP silver age books would all share most of the same traits; they would all be exceptional copies. So, date stamps & owner stamps aside, I still have a hard time believing that one would be able to tell a pedigree CGC 9.4 from a non-pedigree CGC 9.4 book - because if the pedigree really was that more exceptional, it would be in a 9.6 or 9.8 slab?

[mudbogger2]

So a bunch of nice books owned by someone makes them more valuable or special.

 

So if you break them apart from the group do they then loose thier pedigree or value?? What makes them special at that point. They used to be with a bunch of nice books owned by "someone".

 

I am like mschmidt. I see a point in having pedigrees but I dont feel that adds any value to a book. My

[Bomber-Bob]

 

Just to add some experience to the Pepsi challenge on Pedigrees:

I have submitted about 150 Mass copies to CGC with an affidavit and explanation of

lineage. My first submissions took about 4 months to finalize as Mark Haspel checked out my story (A positive that shows CGC integrity). Some of my Mass books went into the 1980's. Somewhere around 1982/1983 CGC stopped

recognizing the pedigree. I thought they made a label mistake and called.

The explanation I was given is there are so many high grade copies out there from this time period that CGC could not tell the difference between a pedigree and killer non-pedigree.

In summary, my opinion on the Pepsi challenge for pedigrees depends on the time period. In many cases the highest graded copies out there are pedigrees only.

I don't know of too many collectors with a 9.8 X-Men #1 to compare it to the Curator copy.

[Gemma]

In reference to all of this on the Registry, the primary issue/concern that we have is the method by which the point values that would be assigned. Under our current system, there is no way to distinguish between the different pedigrees on the Registry, so we would only be able to give a Pedigree book a "score bump" that would have to be a universal percentage regardless of the pedigree itself. This is problematic as some pedigrees are more desirable and rare than others, so those pedigrees would not be accurately represented. Overall we feel it is best not to apply a pedigree-based change to the site at this time as it would not be an accurate representation for all the books that could possibly be entered. In addition, based upon the discussion above, not every collector is concerned with pedigrees, so this change may also alienate those customers and they may decide not to use the registry as a result.

 

[PokerKid]

I do understand that pedigree books are kind of cool - I owned about 60 Mile Highs decades ago and loved them - but the big premiums on them is what surprises me.

 

Now when there are the beautiful books, I get why a gorgeous 9.4+ golden age is selling for multiples of what lower grade copies go for, but people paying dramatically more for a book in the same grade just for a pedigree label doesn't make sense. (I also understand that people paying thousands of dollars for funnybooks doesn't make sense to most people also.)

 

This is one example to illustrate it. The Gangsters Can Win on the left is a Mile High that sold for $335. The one the right sold for $195 that same month. (I think the miswrap more than makes up for the better page quality)

 

 

 

p.s. I just bought my first Mile High since returning to the hobby. A whopping $65 for a cool 5.0 Super Magician. Not exactly one of the big spenders.

[Cody_Starbuck]

I think the whole pedigree thing is pointless too, but I don't see where it hurts the hobby.

[DrWatson]

That's like saying pumpkin pie is pointless at Thanksgiving.

 

Go on and hate, you haters. That just leaves more sweet pedigrees for me.

 

“I do not like green eggs and ham I do not like them Sam I Am.”

[mikeyboy9000]

That's like saying pumpkin pie is pointless at Thanksgiving.

 

Go on and hate, you haters. That just leaves more sweet pedigrees for me.

 

“I do not like green eggs and ham I do not like them Sam I Am.”

 

You sir, win my internets. All of them.

[Genesis Comics]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

Yep (thumbs u

 

Jim

 

(thumbs u

[Twistty1]

I don't get the whole pedigree thing. Just beacuse "someone" owned the books they are special or worth more than the same book that wasn't?

 

 

Yep (thumbs u

 

Jim

 

(thumbs u

 

I think the fact that most pedigrees have a history behind them and can be traced back more easily than a regular book is what interests me about pedigrees..

 

I like to imagine the buyer who originally bought them whenever I buy a new book..with pedigrees you can sometimes put a face to that buyer and the store where they were bought and the house that they lived in...etc. etc.

 

anyway, i think thats worth paying more for in some instances