Chuck at MidOhioCon

[Aman619]

Vinnie's added some real ooomph to the operation, new blood,-- young blood!! Especially when Steve was working on his next big thing and took a step back from hustling (in a GOOD way) comics day by day.

 

I guess we should cease talking about Chuck already, whaddaya think?... have you noticed that its been just you and me for two days? Guess everyone else is just not interested in the subject right now, until his next silly, self-serving eruption of self-promotion, of course.

[ghoulaid]

"Course Steve took a limo to his early shows "

 

If true it sounds like he had some financial backing or at least access to money. Chuck started from scratch with no financial cushion to fall back on. Regardless, both dealers have done well for themselves and serve different niches. Chuck went from being a convention dealer to owning retail stores. They served their purpose but he ended up selling nearly all of them to concentrate on mail-order. The stores were never the ultimate goal, only a step along the way. Yes, he has a few stores today but internet sales is the main operation. He's like the Wal-Mart of comics in terms of sales volume. Sure, it's possible he could have done better for himself but I wouldn't define him as anything other than a good business man due to his resiliance and success.

 

"Especially when Steve was working on his next big thing and took a step back from hustling (in a GOOD way) comics day by day."

 

I have no problem with Metropolis but I've heard stories that would suggest not all their hustling has been in a "good" way. Unrevealed restoration in the Nic Cage comics for example. I'm just saying Chuck isn't the only dealer open to critcism but because of his success and high profile he's an obvious target.

 

 

 

[BachelorOfComix]

I have no problem with Metropolis but I've heard stories that would suggest not all their hustling has been in a "good" way. Unrevealed restoration in the Nic Cage comics for example.

I heard they disclosed what they knew in writing but you can't always catch everything so some made it through undisclosed.

[shadroch]

Let me give a few examples of what I think bad business sense is:

Screaming incessantly for all to hear that the market is going to crash and not sellig your books. If one truly believes the market is about to crash, a good businessman would sell now and buy back after the crash for pennieson the dollar.

 

paying 3 or more times guide for a bronze or modern book simply because it is currently amongst the highest books in the CGC census. Somehow,the same people who ridcule Chuck for overpricing find it okay when they overpay.It shouldn't matter if a book passes thru Denver or Sarasota,payng several times guide doesn't make sense for books that have thousands of ungraded copies out there.

[Timely]

wait, Darth, you used CHUCK and THE TRUTH in the same sentence!!??

 

Back to my comparison of Chuck and guys like Fishler. Shad replied that they were not comparable, one being a retailer and the other a dealer. But Chuck started out as a teenage dealer hitchhiking to shows, and LATER chose to take his gains and pour them into retailing, Thiunking stores were the way to go.

 

Steve Fishler also started out as a teenage dealer, and parlayed his early gains into the most successful comics 'dealership' in the business. Course Steve took a limo to his early shows but in this comparison, who made the better decisions with their first round of profits and built the tighter ship, business-wise?

 

Actually I think John Verzyl was smarter than all of them. Not only did he buy his books at the right time but he kept them! Just think how much his 9.8 Mile High Marvel Comics #1 is worth? or his 9.6 All American #16 Mile High...or his Submariner 1-40 Mile High run...or his All Winners 1-21 Mile High run..etc...etc... the list goes on and on...

 

Timely

[shadroch]

This discussion isn't really about being smart,it's about being a good businessman. Any collector who bought books in the 60s-70s and held them until now has made a great deal of money, but that doesn't make them good businessmen. If they bought them as investments they are astute investors.Or lucky or both.

Just before I closed my second store in the mid80s, a kid asked me to order him box of basketball cards.Well,the store closed, the cards were packed away and ten years later I sold the box for two grand-was that luck or smarts. Books I couldn't sell for much in the mid80s-hulk 102,Conan1,TOS58 now sell for ten times what I was asking.

Unless their name is Geppi, the overwhelming percentage of people who have made any real money in the comic retail/collectors market are collectors who bought early.

Few store owners drive Mercedes,few have second homes.Most would have been better off getting real jobs and selling part-time. If they were in it for the money.

It is my opinion that anyone who has been able to stay in this business as it evolved from a few shows a year to the retail end of it and now to be a huge factor in the internet side of it has to be a good businessmen.

 

[Timely]

At last count, I believe John Verzyl had over 60 houses that he out-right owns and rents them out! At $900 X 60 rentals, that's $54,000 per month.

 

Timely

[murph0]

It could easily be more or less than that. Depending on the size/value of the house. But you also have to factor in insurance, taxes, and other misc expenses. But definately it's good income to have coming in.

Forgot to add, chances are good that with that amount of houses and the fact that it's not his full time job. His homes are either managed by a rental company, or he has a rental manager. A rental company can cost anywhere from first months rent + 50 dollars a month per house afterward to a percent of the rental price. A rental manager for that many houses would probably cost 35,000.

 

Brian

[Aman619]

gee. I thought I was doing well......

[shadroch]

At last count, I believe John Verzyl had over 60 houses that he out-right owns and rents them out! At $900 X 60 rentals, that's $54,000 per month.

 

Timely

 

I'm happy for him,and this proves what exactly? Are you saying that he got the money to buy 60 houses from selling comics? Or is the rental income from the houses paying for new purchases. If he is pulling in that kind of income from houses that are free and clear,wouldn't it make more sense to leverage them and have 120 income prducing properties?What is he doing with the income from the houses?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm really curious aboutthis. Where are the houses?

[Timely]

Actually his sister is a real estate agent and is doing the same thing. John told me she has about 150 houses.

 

John pays nothing for his rental manager as his sister does it for him for free.

 

The houses are in Texas. I think he started off with 20 houses 4 years ago and has about 50-60 now.

 

Don't forget, he is still doing the comics too. His last yearly auction pulled in about $250,000-300,000. A few years back at San Diego I helped him sell a deal to another dealer for $120,000. He's got the knack to sell, and he's a blast to hang out with!

 

Timely

[shadroch]

 

It took me awhile to place the name. I knew I knew it but couldn't remember from where.I meet a ton of people in my various travels and am kind of working on my fourth career so it's not always that easy to place names.

John owns a store(or did) somewhere in Tejas and runs a yearly auction.I did meet him once many years ago,quite a talker if I'm thinking of the right guy.Glad he is doing so well.It certainly sounds like he is a good businessman.If I remember right,wasn't a good bit of his collection used in Gebers guide?

Didn't he get started buying sometime in the early 60s,buying in bulk and open a store in the 70s.I'm sorry my memory is shot. I played about 120 hours of poker these last eight days before yesterday and am frazzled.

 

[murph0]

Ok, I have a bit of hard time swallowing that she is managing 150 houses plus another 60 of his. That would be 210 houses, managed by one person. I don't think I need to point out that this is impossible. I'll just go ahead and assume that they have some kind of company that manages these properties. There's simply no way to manage 210 properties (or anything over 50 for that matter) by oneself. Even if they were a real estate agent.

 

Brian

[CGCMINT]

Come on!

[PovertyRow]

SO you are saying achieving one's "dream" is worth less than having business acumen?

 

So let's say I won a few million on the lottery, and sank the money into my long-time dream of running a BeanieBaby empire. Then years later all my money would be frittered away, I'd be selling over-graded, over-priced Beanies, writing memoirs of my Indiana Jones-type Beanie transactions, and living the dream.... but there's no way in heck that anyone would nominate me for Businessman of the Year.

 

I think I am just having a disconnect between ones dream and being a businessman. I probably mis-interpreted your inital thought and perceived "dream" as the one thing someone would want to do, business-releated or nit.

[Timely]

You got most of that right, but his comics stores were in California, he only recently moved to Texas.

 

Timely

[Timely]

That's nonsense. Many of the apartments in my area have 500-1000 tennants, and the grounds are huge, yet there is only one manager. 200+ houses would not be that difficult to run. Keep in mind all the houses are 1-8 years old and require minimal maintence. Also John's sister's husband helps out too.

 

Timely

[murph0]

Then tell me why the National Rental Properties Association claims that 90 percent of people who have properties numbering above the 100's hire rental managers? And that those that don't are simply not successful. And we're talking about houses in a major city too, are we not?

Managing an apartment and managing houses are two TOTALLY different things. You would be better off comparing it to managing a strip mall. I have not even a third of those, and regardless of the problem you're getting at least a call a day (and this is on 25 houses!!! she's supposedly "managing" 210!!!). Not to mention upkeep problems, plumbing problems, external problems (clean the gutters, windows, etc), finding new tenants, rel-leasing, cleaning up after moved out renters, etc etc. There' simply no way someone can have a full time job and manage anything close to 200 properties with any success. Now if you tell me she "manages" them by not paying attention to the tenants and telling them to do stuff on their own, I could POSSIBLY believe it. But I'm assuming that since they're newer houses the renters are paying a decent amount of $$$ so there's no way she could get away with that.

So it could be possible that she is, but at a detriment to either her full time work or her ability to keep tenants under wraps.

 

Brian

 

[BachelorOfComix]

[murph0]

Thought I'd add that with 1-3 year old houses are just as likely to have problems as houses that are 25+ years old. Though not the SAME problems. If there's going to be a problem it usually happens within the first 2 years of the house, if you make that threshhold you are usually good for another 3-5 years barring any flooding or things of that sort.

 

Brian