what causes the plastic bag to wrinkle?

[CKB]

I always thought it was the acids from the comic itself migrating to the bag that caused the yellowing/wrinkling

 

Yellowing probably - but I have had bags wrinkle that were nowhere near books. Just sitting out exposed to the air. I made the mistake of assembling 1000 bags and boards in advance once. By the time I went to use the last of them they had wrinkled.

 

 

[SilverRich]

I have a ton of BA books that I'm going to go through soon (meaning sometime in the future) and noticed that a stack or two I've checked have yellowed/wrinkled bags. They've been in the boxes for about 8-9 years.

 

My question is that if I wait a while longer to change them, will it (or has it already) had any major affect on the comics? If so, what are the main problems to look for? Thanks for any info.

[rodan57]

I have read in a number of places on these boards that old backer boards are more of a risk in aging comics than old plastic bags.

[lizards2]

I have a ton of BA books that I'm going to go through soon (meaning sometime in the future) and noticed that a stack or two I've checked have yellowed/wrinkled bags. They've been in the boxes for about 8-9 years.

 

My question is that if I wait a while longer to change them, will it (or has it already) had any major affect on the comics? If so, what are the main problems to look for? Thanks for any info.

 

The bags don't hurt comics - comics hurt the bags by their farting - it is all asthethics at this point - the comics still look pretty, but the bags look like shiitee.

 

It is the polyprops that wrinkle right up soon. It is the polyethylenes that yellow.

[lizards2]

I have read in a number of places on these boards that old backer boards are more of a risk in aging comics than old plastic bags.

 

yup - those old, oily backing boards - you can see the yellow oils coming through the surface.

[awe4one]

Any polybag, whether its polypropylene or polyethelene should be changed every 2-5 years.

 

I'm a firm believer this is a myth. I've taken many comics out of 20-year old yellow or wrinkled bags that look as new as the day they were placed in them.

 

Jim

[lizards2]

Any polybag, whether its polypropylene or polyethelene should be changed every 2-5 years.

 

I'm a firm believer this is a myth. I've taken many comics out of 20-year old yellow or wrinkled bags that look as new as the day they were placed in them.

 

Jim

 

Jim - I believe you are correct - "Your books are slowly dying" is a myth created by the folks that sell preservation stuff. They want you to throw away the old stuff, and buy the new stuff as quickly as possible - it's the American way. Your books are slowly dying, but in your lifetime, you won't notice a difference between polyethylene, polyprops or mylars.

 

I've changed some bags on a 30 year cycle - the books were unchanged from when bought off the newstand - pages are still white, glossy, etc. It's your storage conditions that degrade the books - the bags will wrinkle or yellow in even the best of storage conditions. I do believe that if the storage conditions are harsh enough, the bags can effect the books, but only in the most extreme circumstances.

[Ze-man]

I have a ton of BA books that I'm going to go through soon (meaning sometime in the future) and noticed that a stack or two I've checked have yellowed/wrinkled bags. They've been in the boxes for about 8-9 years.

 

My question is that if I wait a while longer to change them, will it (or has it already) had any major affect on the comics? If so, what are the main problems to look for? Thanks for any info.

 

The bags don't hurt comics - comics hurt the bags by their farting - it is all asthethics at this point - the comics still look pretty, but the bags look like shiitee.

 

It is the polyprops that wrinkle right up soon. It is the polyethylenes that yellow.

 

Sorry, but to see off gassing reffered to as comics farting is pretty funny! (paging Flee)

 

And I agree, storage conditions play a larger role then what the comics are actually stored in.

 

That said, a half/full back and 2-4 mill mylar offers more protection from handling misuse then a flimsy poly bag and thin backing board. Plus Mylars are prettier to look at.

 

But to think your comics will explode because the bags are not swapped out every few years is overkill, but we are collectors who like to sort, bag and catalog our comics so if it makes a person happy then by all means swap them out, can't hurt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

Any polybag, whether its polypropylene or polyethelene should be changed every 2-5 years.

 

I'm a firm believer this is a myth. I've taken many comics out of 20-year old yellow or wrinkled bags that look as new as the day they were placed in them.

 

Jim

 

Jim - I believe you are correct - "Your books are slowly dying" is a myth created by the folks that sell preservation stuff. They want you to throw away the old stuff, and buy the new stuff as quickly as possible - it's the American way. Your books are slowly dying, but in your lifetime, you won't notice a difference between polyethylene, polyprops or mylars.

 

I've changed some bags on a 30 year cycle - the books were unchanged from when bought off the newstand - pages are still white, glossy, etc. It's your storage conditions that degrade the books - the bags will wrinkle or yellow in even the best of storage conditions. I do believe that if the storage conditions are harsh enough, the bags can effect the books, but only in the most extreme circumstances.

 

Ok. Thats why i sell both. To keep everybody happy.

[01TheDude]

ok -- so if it is heat/humidity that causes the wrinkling effect-- other than looking less attractive inside the bag, is there anything to worry about as far as how the wrinkling might impact the books themselves? Perhaps the backing board eliminates that as a possibility

[Darkowl]

Any polybag, whether its polypropylene or polyethelene should be changed every 2-5 years.

 

I'm a firm believer this is a myth. I've taken many comics out of 20-year old yellow or wrinkled bags that look as new as the day they were placed in them.

 

Jim

 

Jim - I believe you are correct - "Your books are slowly dying" is a myth created by the folks that sell preservation stuff. They want you to throw away the old stuff, and buy the new stuff as quickly as possible - it's the American way. Your books are slowly dying, but in your lifetime, you won't notice a difference between polyethylene, polyprops or mylars.

 

I've changed some bags on a 30 year cycle - the books were unchanged from when bought off the newstand - pages are still white, glossy, etc. It's your storage conditions that degrade the books - the bags will wrinkle or yellow in even the best of storage conditions. I do believe that if the storage conditions are harsh enough, the bags can effect the books, but only in the most extreme circumstances.

 

Doesn't CGC also say the same thing about getting your books re-slabbed?

[Dr. Balls]

Any polybag, whether its polypropylene or polyethelene should be changed every 2-5 years.

 

I'm a firm believer this is a myth. I've taken many comics out of 20-year old yellow or wrinkled bags that look as new as the day they were placed in them.

 

Jim

 

+1

 

I bought some Novas that appeared to have been bagged 30+ years ago from a local collector who never re-bagged and re-boarded anything he bought (I bought some books back from him that still had price tags on them from my old comic shop in the 90s). I got 'em for cheap, and boy they looked ugly in the bags - when I took them out, they were super bright and easily OW.

 

I think the 2-5 year concept is personal presentation preference. I hate wrinkly bags, and after re-bagging my collection once a few years ago, I decided to switch to Mylite2s so I wouldn't have to do it again.

[01TheDude]

Any polybag, whether its polypropylene or polyethelene should be changed every 2-5 years.

 

I'm a firm believer this is a myth. I've taken many comics out of 20-year old yellow or wrinkled bags that look as new as the day they were placed in them.

 

Jim

 

+1

 

I bought some Novas that appeared to have been bagged 30+ years ago from a local collector who never re-bagged and re-boarded anything he bought (I bought some books back from him that still had price tags on them from my old comic shop in the 90s). I got 'em for cheap, and boy they looked ugly in the bags - when I took them out, they were super bright and easily OW.

 

I think the 2-5 year concept is personal presentation preference. I hate wrinkly bags, and after re-bagging my collection once a few years ago, I decided to switch to Mylite2s so I wouldn't have to do it again.

 

30+ years in the bags-- did they have backing boards? trying to figure out if I am over thinking my rebagging (as usual, after the fact) because the former bags wrinkled up/

[kav]

I've never seen this wrinkling you speak of my oldest bags are maybe 35 years old. Acids have no effect on plastic. Nor humidity. More likely it is plastic de-ossifiaction and bifurcation of the polymer molecules due to high energy nano-photons.

[loadstone]

Sorry for the long post. I've actually seen the wrinkling occur much sooner than expected. half a decade ago, just over 1 hot summer. I replaced a few 15 year old (unwrikled but yellowed) inferior poly bags and boards with those poly bags that have the resealable flap (new backboards too). I left them upstairs separate from the rest of my collection as I had planned to transfer them to a long box and got side tracked. That summer relative humidity levels and heat upstairs reached undesirable levels. After just 3-4 months when I had decided to redo my entire collection, I remembered I had left the new bags and boards with the few re-bagged comics upstairs and went back up to get them. The ones with comics had all gotten wrinkled and I thought how strange that was but chalked it up to the conditions and admonished myself for being so careless with them. The comics seemed fine but I'm sure I shortened their lifespan. I kept the bags as a reminder. Fortunately they were mostly moderns of no significant value. My collection is now 90% in eGerber mylite2 with Fullbacks and more importantly, in a more stable humidity/temperature controlled environment.

 

My main reason for switching to mylites and fullbacks is that they are firmer and sturdier and offer a better protection from frequent insertion/removal from boxes. They also look prettier and the fullbacks will require less frequent changing (if ever). Regardless of what bags and boards you use, it is far more important to ensure the comics are stored in a temperature and relatively humidity (RH) controlled environment. If you don't have the big bucks to build you're own chamber, buy a couple of those $8 digital temperature/humidity gauges and put them on the different levels in your home. Try to maintain a constant relative humidity reading and not to let it fluctuate more than +/- 5 points throughout the day but definitely not more than +/-10 points. This is difficult to maintain without a humidifier/dehumidifier big enough to service the whole house (Keeping temperature constant plays a big roll but often you need the extra assistance). But you're not trying to do the whole house, just the room you store your comics in. Try to rig something where the humidifier/dehumidifier reservoir isn't at risk of damaging your comics should a leak occur. Running a drain hose to an exterior floor drain or just being prompt on refilling/emptying the reservoir. This is tough if you go out of town and can't be home to attend to them. If that happens, it's extra important the temperature levels are kept constant. God forbid your AC/heater dies while you're away. This all means higher energy bills and should factor into the true cost of owning and maintaining your collection.

 

You'll notice the biggest changes from the high of summer to the dead of winter but just try to keep them constant without fluctuating a large range frequently. Any RH below 40 in the winter is probably not good. Any RH above 70 in the summer is likely also bad.

 

The one downside to switching to mylars is you lose the proverbial canary factor. The polybags were more of a warning system as they indicated a problem with the heat/humidity level. I still keep a few polybagged (inexpensive) comics in each box at the front, middle and back with the poly bags and check them periodically to see if I see any signs of wrinkling.

 

One final thought. I keep thinking back to the Edgar Church collection and other well preserved finds and can't help but wonder if the simple fact that we store our comics in plastic is more harmful to them than if we just left them unbagged, stacked in secure piles with microchamber paper or fullbacks in between each. I fear that the bags are preventing the natural outgassing and ventilation of the paper acids while possibly allowing water condensation to accumulate inside. Do the plastic barriers actually help to trap humidity and water condensation? It's definitely better to store frequently pulled comics in bags and boards but what about those comics you never touch and rarely plan to. Do you think this has heavy implications for slabbed comics long term?

[Dr. Balls]

Any polybag, whether its polypropylene or polyethelene should be changed every 2-5 years.

 

I'm a firm believer this is a myth. I've taken many comics out of 20-year old yellow or wrinkled bags that look as new as the day they were placed in them.

 

Jim

 

+1

 

I bought some Novas that appeared to have been bagged 30+ years ago from a local collector who never re-bagged and re-boarded anything he bought (I bought some books back from him that still had price tags on them from my old comic shop in the 90s). I got 'em for cheap, and boy they looked ugly in the bags - when I took them out, they were super bright and easily OW.

 

I think the 2-5 year concept is personal presentation preference. I hate wrinkly bags, and after re-bagging my collection once a few years ago, I decided to switch to Mylite2s so I wouldn't have to do it again.

 

30+ years in the bags-- did they have backing boards? trying to figure out if I am over thinking my rebagging (as usual, after the fact) because the former bags wrinkled up/

 

No backer boards - which initially worried me about how hammered they probably were. But as I inspected them, they looked fine. They were in those heavy plastic-ey feeling bags that we kind of thick compared to modern bags.

 

I like Mylite2s because with a nice heavy fullback and ample space around the book, they feel almost as impressive as a slab. There's something to holding a crystal-clear bagged/boarded comic that has some thickness to it - it doesn't feel so fragile that way.

[shadroch]

Some of the whitest bronze books I have encountered were stored in

Glad type kitchen bags. They didn't have boards, but the pages were whitey white, the covers were vivid and they had a trace of that old fresh ink smell.

[romanheart]

I think the question is what causes the bag to wrinkle. I honestly don't know.

 

Like some others I agree that however horrible the bag looks, I think the comic could be just fine. Mylite2's and Fullbacks are the way to go. Pricy, but they are best protected and displayed that way.

[PovertyRow]

How old are the bags??

? These are books I acquired here in the past few months. Just now getting around to sorting them and moving them into my collection

 

Even if you acquired them in the last few months, were they in the same bags as when you got them? If so there is no telling how old those bags are.

[MrBedrock]

If so there is no telling how old those bags are.

True...but you can tell exactly how long ago the original question was asked. Highly doubtful the original poster will get any value from your thoughtful response.