Our Fighting Forces Silver Age Run

[bigfiver69]

Don't have any of those to fill in the gaps, but I do have this pretty copy of #61... the scan does not do the pinks on this book justice. And just check out that shark!

 

[adamstrange]

Don't have any of those to fill in the gaps, but I do have this pretty copy of #61... the scan does not do the pinks on this book justice. And just check out that shark!

 

 

That pink on that book is illegal in at least 3 states!

[comick1]

[comick1]

I've always loved this cover. One of my favorite non-wash Grandenettis.

 

[Fazybones]

:applause:

 

 

Great books Andy, Mick and Shep. (thumbs u

 

 

The pink on that book is unbelievable Shep.

 

 

Would all you guys agree that OFF was the weaker of the

DC Big Five? After watching this thread progress I can't see

why it would. So many awesome covers so far and a long

way to go.

[comick1]

Actually OFF is my middle fav after GIC and OAAW. SSWS is my least fav but that's largely because of the big chunk of dinosaur books which have had a pretty limited appeal with me. I understand why they are sought after, but I have never been a big fan of the Andru/Esposito from that time period (though I love their work on WW and Annie Oakley). For me, MOST of the appeal behind DC war lay with the work of Kubert, Heath, Drucker, Severin, and Grandenetti. And later from the brilliance of Estrada and Glanzman with a sensational sampling from Kirby and Toth. Kubert's covers maintained the "face" of the Big-5 for about a 20 year period from '65 to the eventual demise of the titles--no small feat.

 

Now, if Drucker had carried on with Mlle. Marie for 25-50 issues instead of only 4 (preceded by a couple by Grandenetti), then SSWS might well have been my second or even first favorite title. But Kanigher had to go and give him the sack! Worst mistake Kanigher ever made!

 

OFF, for its long and wonderful run of Gunner and Sarge (arguably as important as Haunted Tank) by the underrated Grandenetti is a great title. Not to mention Severin's or Kirby's outstanding work for the Losers toward the end of the title.

 

Another attractive feature of OFF is that it began somewhat later than AAMOW, OAAW, and SSWS. Nearly from the beginning, the art was FAR more interesting than any of the early issues of the other 3.

 

I'm sure there will be folks who disagree with this next bit, but here goes. With a few notable blips by Krigstein, Infantino (inking themselves), and Heath, the first 25 odd issues of AAMOW, OAAW, SSWS are--in annoying contrast to their chronological significance (to which Overstreet has always assigned an unrealistic value)--virtually devoid of art or stories that transcended the mediocre. It's like Kanigher, et al took a couple years to work out the bugs in the titles to ultimately grab a toehold--a creative identity--that is embodied by the grandeur of Rock, HT, and G&S, the washtone covers, the stunning art and stories in the years to come.

 

OFF #1 came out around issue #25 of the first three Big-5 titles. It's almost like, from the outset, OFF could assume that toehold that the other three older titles had to work so hard for, with little of the formative awkwardness.

 

I've always felt that some of the indescribable appeal for GIC lay in its inaugural issues [of the DC run] being graced with the stunning complexity that the other 4 ALSO had at that time period without suffering the awkward muddle of the initial DC war phase--much like OFF had done. Except THIS time, the first issue (#44) was 4 years in to that formative balance. . .doing the equivalent of sleeping in until 11:00 in the morning, having a cup of joe, reading the Sunday paper, and entering a 26-mile marathon fresh and ready at the 22nd-mile marker when nobody was looking.

 

What was a crippling advantage to GIC was a feather in the cap to the OFF run as well. If you can get past DC GIC starting with issue 44, it just starts right away ON FIRE and never lets up. OFF does similar but has the modest (if questionable) advantage of starting with a more traditionally coveted #1. Historically, though, that has allowed GIC to be cheap relative to the other 4 titles. The #44 for DECADES, was worth little more than the Quality #43 that preceded it.

 

If you wanted to get the entire OFF run, you'd need to do the 1-10 thing which, if you're collecting for art, is neither here nor there. The Overstreet people, obviously disinterested in war comics for the past 39 years, assigned WAY too much value to chronology. Look at the disproportionate value of issues 1-20 of each of the initial Big-4. Collectors pay a RIDICULOUS premium for issue #4 (just an example) of any one of those. . .and for what? Picking up with issue #44 on GIC Combat? Worthless to the many. Priceless to those who understood.

 

[Fazybones]

Very well said Mick and thank you as always for the wonderful

information. I agree that if only they kept the Millie Marie covers

going then SSWS would be much more popular. The whole war

and dinosaurs run doesn't seem to mix in my opinion. I don't own

a single one and probably never will, but you never know as my

tastes evolve.

 

I guess when I asked about OFF being the weakest Big Five war

title I was only looking at the current values or prices you can

grab many OFF books for. Keep in mind I have only been really

concentrating my buying and interest in DC war for a couple of

years, so my knowledge is limited.

 

Thanks to reading the Chris Pedrin's guide and these wonderful

boards and numerous posts from members like Mick, Shep,

AdamStrange and many more, my knowledge is growing every

day. (thumbs u

 

Thanks again Mick.

 

[Jeffro.]

I'm sure there will be folks who disagree with this next bit, but here goes. With a few notable blips by Krigstein, Infantino (inking themselves), and Heath, the first 25 odd issues of AAMOW, OAAW, SSWS are--in annoying contrast to their chronological significance (to which Overstreet has always assigned an unrealistic value)--virtually devoid of art or stories that transcended the mediocre. It's like Kanigher, et al took a couple years to work out the bugs in the titles to ultimately grab a toehold--a creative identity--that is embodied by the grandeur of Rock, HT, and G&S, the washtone covers, the stunning art and stories in the years to come.

 

 

You'll get no argument from me. I've always felt this way about those very early issues.

[Jeffro.]

Don't have any of those to fill in the gaps, but I do have this pretty copy of #61... the scan does not do the pinks on this book justice. And just check out that shark!

 

 

Killer copy Shep. Sadly, my interest in this series between 50 and 123 (with the exception of 71 ) is almost nonexistant, so my participation comes to an end.

 

 

I'll be gearing up for the SSWS and AAMOW threads.

[bigfiver69]

What an awesome, awesome thread.

 

Mick, that is one of the most insightful and thoughtful alalyses (sis?) of the 'tone and flavour' of the DC war books that I have read. I always like OFF... it certainly had its share of wonderful covers. And I've been conflicted over the years about the very early DC war books... the first 30 or so issues of OAAW, SSWS and AAMOW did seem to be lacking - mostly because they reflected the nature of DC at the time, and because Kanigher's hold on the books was growing and forming in those early years. Those really early books (1952-55) have a charm all their own - I just don't know if it's a charm I'm willing to dig deep into my pocket for!

 

And the OFF covers!! They're just amazing. The first silver age book I ever bought was OFF #65 (still have it... taped cover and all) and I have never found a nice copy of it. Can't wait to see who has one so I can make an inappropriate offer!! Seeing more of these early Gunner and Sarge issues in nice shape has me all worked up.

 

Again, sweet thread boys and girl!

 

Shep

 

 

[Hedge]

Well Said Mick!!

[thirdgreenham]

Actually OFF is my middle fav after GIC and OAAW. SSWS is my least fav but that's largely because of the big chunk of dinosaur books which have had a pretty limited appeal with me. I understand why they are sought after, but I have never been a big fan of the Andru/Esposito from that time period (though I love their work on WW and Annie Oakley). For me, MOST of the appeal behind DC war lay with the work of Kubert, Heath, Drucker, Severin, and Grandenetti. And later from the brilliance of Estrada and Glanzman with a sensational sampling from Kirby and Toth. Kubert's covers maintained the "face" of the Big-5 for about a 20 year period from '65 to the eventual demise of the titles--no small feat.

 

Now, if Drucker had carried on with Mlle. Marie for 25-50 issues instead of only 4 (preceded by a couple by Grandenetti), then SSWS might well have been my second or even first favorite title. But Kanigher had to go and give him the sack! Worst mistake Kanigher ever made!

 

OFF, for its long and wonderful run of Gunner and Sarge (arguably as important as Haunted Tank) by the underrated Grandenetti is a great title. Not to mention Severin's or Kirby's outstanding work for the Losers toward the end of the title.

 

Another attractive feature of OFF is that it began somewhat later than AAMOW, OAAW, and SSWS. Nearly from the beginning, the art was FAR more interesting than any of the early issues of the other 3.

 

I'm sure there will be folks who disagree with this next bit, but here goes. With a few notable blips by Krigstein, Infantino (inking themselves), and Heath, the first 25 odd issues of AAMOW, OAAW, SSWS are--in annoying contrast to their chronological significance (to which Overstreet has always assigned an unrealistic value)--virtually devoid of art or stories that transcended the mediocre. It's like Kanigher, et al took a couple years to work out the bugs in the titles to ultimately grab a toehold--a creative identity--that is embodied by the grandeur of Rock, HT, and G&S, the washtone covers, the stunning art and stories in the years to come.

 

OFF #1 came out around issue #25 of the first three Big-5 titles. It's almost like, from the outset, OFF could assume that toehold that the other three older titles had to work so hard for, with little of the formative awkwardness.

 

I've always felt that some of the indescribable appeal for GIC lay in its inaugural issues [of the DC run] being graced with the stunning complexity that the other 4 ALSO had at that time period without suffering the awkward muddle of the initial DC war phase--much like OFF had done. Except THIS time, the first issue (#44) was 4 years in to that formative balance. . .doing the equivalent of sleeping in until 11:00 in the morning, having a cup of joe, reading the Sunday paper, and entering a 26-mile marathon fresh and ready at the 22nd-mile marker when nobody was looking.

 

What was a crippling advantage to GIC was a feather in the cap to the OFF run as well. If you can get past DC GIC starting with issue 44, it just starts right away ON FIRE and never lets up. OFF does similar but has the modest (if questionable) advantage of starting with a more traditionally coveted #1. Historically, though, that has allowed GIC to be cheap relative to the other 4 titles. The #44 for DECADES, was worth little more than the Quality #43 that preceded it.

 

If you wanted to get the entire OFF run, you'd need to do the 1-10 thing which, if you're collecting for art, is neither here nor there. The Overstreet people, obviously disinterested in war comics for the past 39 years, assigned WAY too much value to chronology. Look at the disproportionate value of issues 1-20 of each of the initial Big-4. Collectors pay a RIDICULOUS premium for issue #4 (just an example) of any one of those. . .and for what? Picking up with issue #44 on GIC Combat? Worthless to the many. Priceless to those who understood.

 

It's posts like this one that make me feel humbled to be in the same room as you, Mick. Granted, it's more of a chat room than a real room, but nonetheless, wonderful post! You too, Shep.

 

I am partly ashamed to admit this publicly, but I haven't read all of the issues of the Big Five, and I have them all. I have read many, but not all. To comment on each title and to rank them 1 to 5 could only be my opinion and nothing else. I have looked at price, availability, and quality of stories and artwork when ranking these fine titles.

 

1. G. I. Combat- This series blows me away, first and foremost, from the knock-your-socks-off covers. Some people will argue that the covers weren't that great, but even if it's their opinion, I know they're wrong. The Haunted Tank was a character that really appealed to me. I love war stories and I love ghosts. Kubert's and Heath's artwork on the covers and interiors is to die for. (thumbs u Glanzman, too (thumbs u (thumbs u

 

2. Our Army At War- Sgt. Rock, Sgt. Rock, Sgt. Rock! Besides those 3 reasons, it also sports over 200 covers (over 300 covers including the title "Sgt. Rock") drawn by Joe Kubert. From trying to complete my run of the Big Five, I've also realized that this series deserves a tip of the hat for the run of #1-80 (pre-Sgt. Rock). This run of books has a lot of great stories and artwork. However, the main reason that I love these books is their scarcity. Numbers 1 to 20 have proven quite difficult to get, even if you're able to afford them, sometimes they can be just non-existent. I love a quest and completing my run of the Big Five ended with Our Army At War #11 and #12. Sweet title!

 

3. Star Spangled War Stories- Scarce and difficult run to put together. There are some really difficult books in the top 10 all the way up to around #35. I love the earlier issues, and the Mlle. Marie books. The dinosaurs were a run that I always avoided because they were expensive and I didn't care about them. When DC came out with the collected version in Showcase-The War That Time Forgot, I picked it up and quite enjoyed the stories. They became pretty repetitive, but it was fun to read. Moving on to Enemy Ace and I've got to say, these are some of the greatest books that I've ever read. Amazing stories told from the enemy's perspective. I highly recommend picking up the Showcase compendium for Enemy Ace. Next was the Unknown Soldier, who I can't get enough of. He really battles for my favourite DC war character. A lot of fun reading his stories and following him on his adventures as he turns into anybody he wants. Great stuff for a 12 year old boy. (thumbs u

 

4. Our Fighting Forces- A 181 issue run that was pretty easy to put together. I enjoyed this series because it was affordable. The Gunner and Sarge issues were a bit more money and #46-48 were tough buggers to come by. Pooch is alright in my books, too. Jack Kirby's run on OFF was incredible! I'm not a huge fan of Kirby, but I enjoyed this run, mostly because it was different. It was blocky in a way, but it was explosive!! I'm still happy to say that I own one of the pages from Kirby on that run and I'm quite proud of it. (thumbs u

 

5. All American Men Of War- A title that I enjoy because of the great covers that came out of it. Probably not too many will agree that the covers at the end of the series with the split boxes were amazing. I really loved them as they were different and well thought out. You could get a better idea of what's in the book, offer more action, and show off more art, just from the cover. Johnny Cloud was also introduced in this series and he's a decent character. Not my favourite, but that's why this title's here at #5.

 

There you have my top 5. All great books and a heck of a quest if you decide to get them all. Thanks for everyone sharing their thoughts and opinions and I agree with Shep....damn, this is a great thread!

 

Andy

[thirdgreenham]

Don't have any of those to fill in the gaps, but I do have this pretty copy of #61... the scan does not do the pinks on this book justice. And just check out that shark!

 

 

Killer copy Shep. Sadly, my interest in this series between 50 and 123 (with the exception of 71 ) is almost nonexistant, so my participation comes to an end.

 

 

I'll be gearing up for the SSWS and AAMOW threads.

 

Great book, Shep! Beautiful colours!!

 

Jeffro, we'll just have to keep on chugging up to issue #123 so we can get you posting some more books here.

 

Hopefully, we can deal with these titles one at a time, right, so let's finish OFF before we move on. (thumbs u

 

Andy

[Jeffro.]

Jeffro, we'll just have to keep on chugging up to issue #123 so we can get you posting some more books here.

 

Go for it. :thumbsup:

 

I wish I had a nice 71 to show.

 

 

I've always been partial to AAMOW because it seemed like a series that flew beneath the radar of war collectors. Many seem to really go for GIC and OAAW, the others not so much.

[bigfiver69]

 

Man, I love that cover Mick... gotta find me one!

 

Shep

 

 

[comick1]

Ditto on the nuclear #61, Shep!

[thirdgreenham]

Once again, we got stopped in our tracks. Bringing us up to date and continuing on with.....

 

#57

 

#63

 

#64

 

ANYONE HAVE #65???

 

#66

 

#67

 

ANYONE HAVE #68???

 

#69

 

#70

[bigfiver69]

Nice ones Andy!!!

 

Here's one of my very favorties...

 

 

 

[comick1]

Shep, I never get tired of seeing OFF 71 and especially THAT OFF 71!!! Man, what a stunner!

Right on!

[bigfiver69]

Thanks Mick.

 

I know what you mean.... sometimes I take it out of the rack, and just sit there and want to cry because they don't make comics like this any more.

 

Man, can you imagine being an eleven year old in 1962? Get up in the morning, put on a pair of cuffed-up dungarees... hop on your huffy... carefully take it out of the garage past your old man's Buick.... drive over to your best friends house, where his mom (undeniably hot in that 1960s large bouffant hairdo sort of way) greets you at the door. The two of you peddle your bikes down to the corner store. You each slap a quarter on the counter, and old man Jenkins grunts and you go get a coke, and your 12 cent comic book. Then, you roll it up and stuff it in your back pocket, peddle back home, and go read them down in the bomb shelter.

 

Must've been awesome!!

 

Shep