Making Sense of Trimming

[DrWatson]

 

Trimming has no redeeming value whatsoever. The only motivation for trimming is greed. It isn't restorative. It isn't conservative. I would rather have a book with extensive restoration work than a book that has only had edges trimmed.

 

I could expand this post to comment on pressing, but that is not the focus of this thread. So, don't any wiseasses bash me over the head with a pressing jab.

Thank you for restraint.

 

Going form his actions Ewert might say trimming has redeeming value...a grade bump and price hike. If expertly done.

What are the odds he was alone in his thinking?

I agree, but the sole purpose of his actions was to defraud. I would call that negative value. He wasn't disclosing that the books had been trimmed.

 

I am still suspicious of your motivations, Dav. If you try to flip this conversation on me, I swear to God I will track you down and kick your azz.

[DrWatson]

 

Trimming has no redeeming value whatsoever. The only motivation for trimming is greed. It isn't restorative. It isn't conservative. I would rather have a book with extensive restoration work than a book that has only had edges trimmed.

 

I could expand this post to comment on pressing, but that is not the focus of this thread. So, don't any wiseasses bash me over the head with a pressing jab.

 

I'm truly not bashing you over the head here, but obviously, some people would make that exact arguement about pressing. Especially your second sentence when it comes to trying to sqeeze out an extra couple tenths of a grade. I will say no more.

 

I absolutely agree with you about trimming comic books. (thumbs u It's unscrupulous. Just my and probably not even worth that.

I am well prepared for that, but this is not a pressing thread. So, the counter argument was not presented. The difference to me hinges on disclosure.

[VintageComics]

 

Trimming has no redeeming value whatsoever. The only motivation for trimming is greed. It isn't restorative. It isn't conservative. I would rather have a book with extensive restoration work than a book that has only had edges trimmed.

 

I could expand this post to comment on pressing, but that is not the focus of this thread. So, don't any wiseasses bash me over the head with a pressing jab.

 

I'm truly not bashing you over the head here, but obviously, some people would make that exact arguement about pressing. Especially your second sentence when it comes to trying to sqeeze out an extra couple tenths of a grade. I will say no more.

 

I absolutely agree with you about trimming comic books. (thumbs u It's unscrupulous. Just my and probably not even worth that.

 

I own a gorgeous early Marvel Mystery that was extensively restored and the centerfold was trimmed because it was protruding from the book. The book shows like a 9.6 and is probably only a 6.5 because of a ncb crease across the front cover.

 

Has this book been destroyed?

 

R.

 

 

[cd4ever]

 

Trimming has no redeeming value whatsoever. The only motivation for trimming is greed. It isn't restorative. It isn't conservative. I would rather have a book with extensive restoration work than a book that has only had edges trimmed.

 

I could expand this post to comment on pressing, but that is not the focus of this thread. So, don't any wiseasses bash me over the head with a pressing jab.

 

I'm truly not bashing you over the head here, but obviously, some people would make that exact arguement about pressing. Especially your second sentence when it comes to trying to sqeeze out an extra couple tenths of a grade. I will say no more.

 

I absolutely agree with you about trimming comic books. (thumbs u It's unscrupulous. Just my and probably not even worth that.

 

I own a gorgeous early Marvel Mystery that was extensively restored and the centerfold was trimmed because it was protruding from the book. The book shows like a 9.6 and is probably only a 6.5 because of a ncb crease across the front cover.

 

Has this book been destroyed?

 

R.

 

Yes. I'll give you 8 bucks for it.

[alecholland]

 

Trimming has no redeeming value whatsoever. The only motivation for trimming is greed. It isn't restorative. It isn't conservative. I would rather have a book with extensive restoration work than a book that has only had edges trimmed.

 

I could expand this post to comment on pressing, but that is not the focus of this thread. So, don't any wiseasses bash me over the head with a pressing jab.

 

I'm truly not bashing you over the head here, but obviously, some people would make that exact arguement about pressing. Especially your second sentence when it comes to trying to sqeeze out an extra couple tenths of a grade. I will say no more.

 

I absolutely agree with you about trimming comic books. (thumbs u It's unscrupulous. Just my and probably not even worth that.

 

I own a gorgeous early Marvel Mystery that was extensively restored and the centerfold was trimmed because it was protruding from the book. The book shows like a 9.6 and is probably only a 6.5 because of a ncb crease across the front cover.

 

Has this book been destroyed?

 

R.

 

 

I changed my post to clarify my thoughts a bit. I can see the value in trimming for some people who desire to give their personal books better eye appeal.

[VintageComics]

 

Trimming has no redeeming value whatsoever. The only motivation for trimming is greed. It isn't restorative. It isn't conservative. I would rather have a book with extensive restoration work than a book that has only had edges trimmed.

 

I could expand this post to comment on pressing, but that is not the focus of this thread. So, don't any wiseasses bash me over the head with a pressing jab.

 

I'm truly not bashing you over the head here, but obviously, some people would make that exact arguement about pressing. Especially your second sentence when it comes to trying to sqeeze out an extra couple tenths of a grade. I will say no more.

 

I absolutely agree with you about trimming comic books. (thumbs u It's unscrupulous. Just my and probably not even worth that.

 

I own a gorgeous early Marvel Mystery that was extensively restored and the centerfold was trimmed because it was protruding from the book. The book shows like a 9.6 and is probably only a 6.5 because of a ncb crease across the front cover.

 

Has this book been destroyed?

 

R.

 

Yes. I'll give you 8 bucks for it.

 

Trade ya' for yer AKSHON 1.

 

 

[DiceX]

Pressing some trim.

 

 

[alecholland]

 

Trimming has no redeeming value whatsoever. The only motivation for trimming is greed. It isn't restorative. It isn't conservative. I would rather have a book with extensive restoration work than a book that has only had edges trimmed.

 

I could expand this post to comment on pressing, but that is not the focus of this thread. So, don't any wiseasses bash me over the head with a pressing jab.

 

I'm truly not bashing you over the head here, but obviously, some people would make that exact arguement about pressing. Especially your second sentence when it comes to trying to sqeeze out an extra couple tenths of a grade. I will say no more.

 

I absolutely agree with you about trimming comic books. (thumbs u It's unscrupulous. Just my and probably not even worth that.

I am well prepared for that, but this is not a pressing thread. So, the counter argument was not presented. The difference to me hinges on disclosure.

 

I do understand the counter argument and I do see the both side's point of view. I definitely don't have a dog in that kind of fight and I don't judge anyone for believing/thinking either way on that subject. To each his own I say.

 

I just enjoy being a comic collector.

[Dick Pontoon]

[Count]

[GACollectibles]

I have high expectations for this thread, coming at the start of a 4-day weekend for many. What will the body count come Monday be?

 

MEEEEDIIIIC!!

 

[alecholland]

Pressing some trim.

 

 

The local Barbeque joint (Zarda - in case John is reading this) was selling trim the other day on special at $2.99 a pound. It was up on their chalkboard - Trim $2.99 lb.

 

 

[cd4ever]

Pressing some trim.

 

 

The local Barbeque joint (Zarda - in case John is reading this) was selling trim the other day on special at $2.99 a pound. It was up on their chalkboard - Trim $2.99 lb.

 

Dammit!!! Missed out on some cheap trim.

[Paratrooper]

Trimming is not restoration. Discuss.

[Ze-man]

The moment a comic book is given a production trim its permanent edges are considered sacred. To do a re-trim, however slight, is considered destruction. Undisclosed, it's considered the worst kind of fraud and unethical cheating. The obvious reason, the one most given, is trimming "removes a part of the book".

 

In today's hobby it can't be that simple and still make sense. Factory staples are a book-part too, yet they can be removed. As long as they're expertly replaced with vintage counterparts it's no big deal. Ditto for entire book assemblies, the very essence of comic "book". They can be completely unmade and vintage paper parts re-flattened, realigned, and refolded. It's no big deal, not even note worthy, if expertly reassembled back into a book form.

 

So what's unique about a “factory” trim that it has remained sacred, while virtually all other "as published" components have not?

 

(It's a serious question with hopes of some serious responses, so please don't derail it into another endless 'pressing' thread. thanx. )

 

Hey Davenport, I think you answered your own question. Trimming is in a catagory unto itself because it physically takes off part of the book. Even if it is part of a larger restorative process and even if disclosed it is looked upon as "bad" thing.

 

The other things you mention staple replacement, disassembly (and pressing which you so aptly labeled as "vintage paper parts flattened".. are mostly frowned uopn only if not disclosed. Of course everyone has a personal opinion about how they feel if a book was taken apart and put back together, but I imagine most people would not consider that to be on the same destructive level as trimming.

 

I agree with Roy though,even though a book might have been re-trimmed for greed after production does not mean it is still not a fantastic book. And even then I would take into account how the book was trimmed(cover only vs entire book) the latter being much worse because so much of the book was lost. But to say a micro trimmed book that sometimes only had a tiny spec or two removed is now worthless does not make sense to me, again it seems to be more a personal preference that I understand I am in the minority.

 

 

Now back to your post about things being sacred, I think since trimming is taking away or destroying part of the comic that it would fall under not respecting the book itself, even if disclosed. But to say that becuase you can swap out staples that were rusty, or disassemble a book because it had bad spine roll is taking away from a books sacredness(is that even a word?) I would argue against.

 

Non disclosure of these acts seems to be what makes it a sacrilage to many, not the act itself(compared to trimming)

 

As an example here is a book that Jon(PointFive) asked me to press recently for obvious reasons. And even though the book was disassembled, and the vintage paper parts realigned and flattened I would not consider it less of a book, or even a sacrilage. If anything the book is now better off because the staples which were being torn from the cover(and especially the interiors) are now back where they should be and you can remove and insert it in the mylar without further fear of catching the spine on the bag.

 

And speaking from personal opinion here, I dont think the act of taking apart the book made it less of a book..the parts are all the same. Do I think dis assembly is restoration? Not 100% sure, but I do know that it should be disclosed as it is a big deal to many.

 

Here are some photos of Jons book to try and make this a positive "flattening of vintage paper products thread!!" I guess we should ask him is he thinks his book is less sacred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Davenport]

 

Going form his actions Ewert might say trimming has redeeming value...a grade bump and price hike. If expertly done.

What are the odds he was alone in his thinking?

I agree, but the sole purpose of his actions was to defraud. I would call that negative value. He wasn't disclosing that the books had been trimmed.

 

I am still suspicious of your motivations, Dav. If you try to flip this conversation on me, I swear to God I will track you down and kick your azz.

No azz kicking required. (As if ) My motivation is to find out what others think.

 

Personally I find it a curiosity. In an aesthetics dominated culture I wonder why Trimming, among all non-additive treatments, was spared the green light. Thought I'd ask and maybe an answer that makes sense would appear.

[jordanscott]

I like a bit of trim.

 

It's just natural.

[cd4ever]

Trimming is not restoration. Discuss.

I said the opposite on these boards once and was attacked by nerds....call it what you want....it's artificially manipulating the appearance of a comic book to make it look better so the owner can get more money for it. Just like that other thing we can't talk about.

[Paratrooper]

Trimming is not restoration. Discuss.

I said the opposite on these boards once and was attacked by nerds....call it what you want....it's artificially manipulating the appearance of a comic book to make it look better so the owner can get more money for it. Just like that other thing we can't talk about.

 

Pressing is not restoration either. Discuss.

[Davenport]

Hey Davenport, I think you answered your own question. Trimming is in a catagory unto itself because it physically takes off part of the book. Even if it is part of a larger restorative process and even disclosed it is looked upon as "bad" thing.

 

The other things you mention staple replacement, disassembly (and pressing which you so aptly labeled as "vintage paper parts flattened".. are mostly frowned uopn only if not disclosed. Of course everyone has a personal opinion about how they feel if a book was taken apart and put back together, but I imagine most people would not consider that to be on the same destructive level as trimming.

 

I agree with Roy though,even though a book might have been re-trimmed for greed after production does not mean it is still not a fantastic book. And even then I would take into account how the book was trimmed(cover only vs entire book) the latter being much worse because so much of the book was lost. But to say a micro trimmed book that sometimes only had a tiny spec or two removed is now worthless does not make sense to me, again it seems to be more a personal preference that I understand I am in the minority.

 

 

Now back to your post about things being sacred, I think since trimming is taking away or destroying part of the comic that it would fall under not respecting the book itself, even if disclosed. But to say that becuase you can swap out staples that were rusty, or disassemble a book because it had bad spine roll is taking away from a books sacredness(is that even a word?) I would argue against.

 

Non disclosure of these acts seems to be what makes it a sacrilage to many, not the act itself(compared to trimming)

 

Nice work Ze. Sweet book.

 

Don't get confused by the question. All disclosed treatments can be dealt with, even trimming. To each their own.

 

The point being, and my question, is why Trimming alone wasn't included in the no-notes-needed "nothing happened" non-additive family of treatments. Take away a sliver of paper, take away original staples, undo a factory assembly, what's the difference if aesthetics trumps all?