What is Resto? This is NOT what it seems.

[george bailey-migration]

Yup, that's the guy. My last dealings with Gerry were in the early 80's when I was finishing off my run of FFs. I asked him for a high grade 53 and 55. He came with a briefcase and pulled out some tape attached to bits of comic and tried to tell me that these were VF or better. He then went back to the briefcase and out came two F/VF copies that he wanted double NM prices for. When I asked him why they were so expensive he said: "In 10 years they will easily be worth that much", so I told him I'd be back with the money in 10 years to pick them up.

[TFL-migration]

He also told me he could get me a nice AF 15 Bone, Dirt Cheap. I asked him from a bit of a distance... What he considered nice. He said as nice as the slab I had in my hand. It was a GSXM # 1 CGC Blue Label 6.5. Under graded IMHO..

 

Then I asked him what his version of Dirt, Bone Cheap was. He once again said "Very Cheap".

I told him that wasn't a number I or my nephew were not aware of. He then mentioned below $3K.. I asked him if that was in Canadian or US Money. Or other currency. Plus if his 3K meant three thousand.. He has a way of side stepping, avoiding, re directing the conversation.

 

My nephew gave me the this guy is look. To which I responded (thumbs u

So I once again asked him. An original 1962 Marvel AF 15 in CGC 6.5 condition. Un Restored. No re prints, German variants, U.K. version. He then went over to help out someone who had walked up to his booth. I asked him if he was going to answer my question.

 

He said, and I quote... "What was the question again"? That's when I told my nephew Let's Go... He tells me if I want to trade my slabbed ASM 50 6.5 Blue Label book for that POS Star Spangled Comic @ 1.5 Probably restored, to let him know. The offer wasn't going to be good for the entire show..

 

I laughed right at him and told him my book was worth around $3,500 using his evaluation scale. He looked puzzled... Why, I have no clue. Needless to say I or my nephew did no business with this "dealer".. How he sells book's is totally beyond me....

[buttock]

Bizzarre. I actually had a very positive interaction with him recently, but I think that was one in a million.

[PovertyRow]

I think you're getting confused because what you asked and what you intended to ask aren't the same thing. You stated up front that you're not wanting to know "what is restoration?", but then part one of the question you finally pose is "is manipulation and restoration the same thing?" which seems to be a central tenet of the point you're trying to make.

 

Those are kind of the same question.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter what you, I, or any other individual defines restoration as. The definition will bear out in public usage. If the public chooses to acknowledge that trimming is inconsequential, then it will cease to become "restoration" regardless of what objections you may have (that's obviously an extreme example, but...)

 

Therefore, if the meaning (and I use that term rather than "definition" as "definition" doesn't necessarily parlay into how a term is used) of restoration is borne out in the way the majority views it, then no matter what conclusion we come to on this board, or in a committee/conference/organization - that meaning doesn't change. That's just arguing for the sake of making ourselves feel smart.

 

As to the second part of your question, I think you made a big assumption; i.e. that all manipulation is done & perceived in the same manner.

 

Also, if the majority meaning of "restoration" applies, then the second part of your question is irrelevant.

 

Hello Buttock. Actually I am not at all confused. When I asked "Is manipulation and restoration the same thing" again I was not talking about people coming here to define processes. I was seeking if people had some kind of set idea as to what would separate restoration from some other process where the book is manipulated.

 

I so often, during restoration threads, or threads where someone describes a book and mentions that "such and such process was done to it" - and see people asking in efect "Is such and such process restoration?" that I had to simple ask this question.

 

Because it SOUNDS like some folk are seeking an OK from others that "such and such is not restoration". Or that it is.

 

I think the question "is it restoration?" is indicative of the modern climate. People seem to be seeking permission to have a book in their collection as long as any manipulation done to it (as I said previously - manipulation that goes beyond just uncurling a curl with your fingers) is not considered rerstoration.

 

So that is the crux of this post.

 

NOT to define restoration. NOT to deinfe "manipulation" (I just used that term for some certain processes that are not considered by certain circles to be restoration).

 

Bottom line question is this:

 

So I guess the crux of the question is actually:

 

If one knows a book has been modified (maniplulated/restroed - whatever - and NOT wiping dust off of it but actually modifying the structure in some way), and the majority says that such change is not restoration, do they somehow feel the book is now ok to own?

 

Why is someone asking if something is restotration? THAT is the crux of this post.

 

I hope that clarifies things for ya!

 

 

[thirdgreenham]

I'm dizzy.

[Davenport]

So I guess the crux of the question is actually:

 

If one knows a book has been modified (maniplulated/restroed - whatever - and NOT wiping dust off of it but actually modifying the structure in some way), and the majority says that such change is not restoration, do they somehow feel the book is now ok to own?

 

Why is someone asking if something is restotration? THAT is the crux of this post.

I would assume someone is asking due to genuine uncertainty. Mainly because conservationist terms have become virtually useless for communicating inside fandom. "Is it restored?" is most likely asking how CGC would classify a particular treatment. Especially if they're asking and know the book a been enhanced via alterations.

 

Translated: "Hey, in the hairsplitting universe, which side of the split would this land on?"

[PovertyRow]

So I guess the crux of the question is actually:

 

If one knows a book has been modified (maniplulated/restroed - whatever - and NOT wiping dust off of it but actually modifying the structure in some way), and the majority says that such change is not restoration, do they somehow feel the book is now ok to own?

 

Why is someone asking if something is restotration? THAT is the crux of this post.

I would assume someone is asking due to genuine uncertainty. Mainly because conservationist terms have become virtually useless for communicating inside fandom. "Is it restored?" is most likely asking how CGC would classify a particular treatment. Especially if they're asking and know the book a been enhanced via alterations.

 

Translated: "Hey, in the hairsplitting universe, which side of the split would this land on?"

 

I appreciate the responses thus far. To me, it seems like the folks asking "Is xyz Resto?" seem to be asking as far as CGC goes. So sometimes it simply sounds like one thing: kind of the antithesis of a collector. That is, "does xyz process glean a PLOD?". Basically, I would assume that a collector would have some kind of criteria as to what is and is not acceptable. That criteria, for a collector, should not hinge on any external opinion but on their own. What is acceptable to THEM?

 

But I see folk kind of waffling: is staple replacement resto? Is pressing resto? Is page marrying or cover marrying resto? Is dry cleaning resto? etc.

 

I think a collector should have the knowledge or, if lacking the knowledge, should seek out the actual processes themselves and make a determination on what they can happily live with. Don't go by some majority opinion of is such and such restoration. Yes, we are something of a collective here but to seek a majority opinion from here as to what is restoration? It does not make sense.

 

 

[mikeyboy9000]

I have an off topic question, what would trimming a low grade key do? / be worth. I noticed about 4 copies of AF#15 and other keys in 2.0-3.5 grade that all had 'trimming' in their restoration and nothing else....?

 

Anyone?

 

That's destruction and would substantially lower the value for most. In my case, it lowers the value to nil.

 

Then why where there 3-5 copies about a weekish ago when i flipped through comic link, quite honestly they all wanted 2k or more iirc... it was weird, i came across them ranging from maybe 1 - 3.5, and at least 2 of them said 'trimming' as the only resto.:shrug: couldn't understand why you'd 'just' trim it, surely that wouldn't get you a big grade bump? maybe people bought them unknowingly then slabbed, i dont know just couldn't get it.

[General Zod]

I have an off topic question, what would trimming a low grade key do? / be worth. I noticed about 4 copies of AF#15 and other keys in 2.0-3.5 grade that all had 'trimming' in their restoration and nothing else....?

 

Anyone?

 

That's destruction and would substantially lower the value for most. In my case, it lowers the value to nil.

 

Then why where there 3-5 copies about a weekish ago when i flipped through comic link, quite honestly they all wanted 2k or more iirc... it was weird, i came across them ranging from maybe 1 - 3.5, and at least 2 of them said 'trimming' as the only resto.:shrug: couldn't understand why you'd 'just' trim it, surely that wouldn't get you a big grade bump? maybe people bought them unknowingly then slabbed, i dont know just couldn't get it.

 

Have you noticed other books in general on Comic Link? There are a few other sellers that really jack up the prices for their books.