Touchy subject - fraudulent CGC books being sold?!

[Bosco685]

criminal mind. gotta watch your offerings going forward. all those raw VF books you sell that come back 9.4's. there must be something insidious going on. honestly tho, is there any topic that people can't worry about? so your house has lost 35% of its value and your 401k is down 40% but what about that funny book you paid $50 for- maybe it's been re-engineered. it's a hobby, have fun; if it's causing 'agita' take up knitting.

 

------------------------------------------------

 

Appreciate your input, but I think you may be misinterpreting the purpose of this topic. This is not covering "Should comics be collected for reading, investing, or both?"

 

For those that did their research on the market and negotiated the right interest rates and housing price for their income rather than live way beyond their means, things are not as bad. Applying the same technique to purchasing key comics - well, guess what? If it worked for stock investments and housing purchases, it just may work on maintaining a strong and reliable comic collection.

 

It's called "portfolio diversification," and you want to ensure that alternate investment source is just as rock-solid as everything else you do. Otherwise, every time you get the feeling you received the smack-down on something because that "guy/lady cheated me out of something" - do you think maybe a little extra research effort could have avoided the situation? At least on those things you can identify which do not involve high-powered government and corporate-types making shifty agreements that burn us all (we are not allowed to discuss politics or other topics outside the coverage of this forum, so I'll stop there).

 

So allow a little education to take place here, maybe stop jumping on this thing with the approach we all should put shotguns in our mouth and things would be better off if only we could fit our big toe in the trigger housing, and appreciate the great details that are being shared by those that are taking this topic serious. That's two times now folks are making it sound like the whole world is crashing down, but let's admit it. It will get better again, so hang in there!

 

Luckily, this investment source is something you can also enjoy viewing and reading versus a service or non-tangible good. Even better as a focus!

 

Going back to my knitting now. But seriously, let's focus on the topic and not someone's philosophy on "should comics be an investment or just pure enjoyment or both?" That's another thread to be created.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

How did this become an issue. Tampering with holders into investing, home sales, and the "great" debate as to if people should or should not collect slabs.

 

Collect what you like. And respect other peoples focus. I am not a big Marvel collector, but dont say Marvel collectors are insufficiently_thoughtful_persons. And I collect both slab and raw, and probably have twice my body weight in moderns that I read monthly. I collect from GA-MA and appreciate it all. I can see why some people prefer to collect slabs and some prefer raw. But who says the guy with the CGC 9.0 ASM collection cant have some GD+ copies to read or an omnibus?

 

 

Back on topic here guys..

[conditionfreak]

Yea, right. You are assumming that your taste are what most like. In your case, it should be obvious that it is the exact opposite.

 

Exactly how long have you been here?

 

In the 80's I was buying HG Bronze Marvels, in the 1990's I was buying HG Bronze Marvels, and in the 2000's I am still buying HG Bronze Marvels - that's all I like and all I've ever bought... so you're saying that no one is interested in HG Bronze Marvels today?

 

You should really get that out as a special bulletin because I'm not sure the auction results agree with you.

 

Exactly how long have you been collecting comic books?

 

Since 1962, I have been buying all of the Silver Age books that everyone is now chasing, off the racks. I also have been buying all of the Gerber 6's thru 9's (and someday 10's I hope) since the 90's.

 

So you're saying that those stupid silver age books that I did not like (from DC), I should have not purchased?

 

You really should check the "want to buy" section, just to see what people are looking for. Avengers 4, Early Spidey's, Early FF's, Early Actions and Batmans. Maybe some Goonies or Turner SS's. Not as many looking for Bronze things that you bought 10 of, as I am sure you did.

 

Nothing wrong with Bronze, if that is when you grew up. You apparently were a kid when Wolverine was introduced. I was a kid when Spiderman was introduced. And the FF, Avengers, Hulk, etc, etc.

 

Now, unless you were a kid when Superman and Batman were introduced, you can't tell me squat about comic books.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Now, unless you were a kid when Superman and Batman were introduced, you can't tell me squat about comic books.

 

 

My dad was a kid at that point, and he can't tell anyone squat about comics. Steve Borock wasn't a kid when Spider-Man & the FF were introduced, so I'm assuming that he can't tell you squat about comics, either? Neither was Fishler. Or Richard Evans. Or Bob Storms.

 

Since when has there been a straight-line correllation between how old you are and what you know?

[mikeyboy9000]

"anyone lame enough to invest in funny books"

 

I wonder how lame the "Dentist" feels?

 

The Dentist is a COLLECTOR, a true hardcore one at that, who is not interested in the monetary returns and has stated he will leave his books to his son.

 

That's the kind of person who usually comes out way ahead, as he buys what he likes, pays what he's comfortable with, and holds it.

 

I expected as much, damn HIM! now i'll never be able to fulfill my dream of getting rich enough to buy and burn all the action 1's in the world! (though i'd like to see someone leave it to a museum as then it cannot be sold under law to any would be collector - that'd anger fans)

 

back on topic - buy what you like, speculate if you're able to lose the cash, etc etc It's not rocket science people.

[mikeyboy9000]

Yea, right. You are assumming that your taste are what most like. In your case, it should be obvious that it is the exact opposite.

 

Exactly how long have you been here?

 

In the 80's I was buying HG Bronze Marvels, in the 1990's I was buying HG Bronze Marvels, and in the 2000's I am still buying HG Bronze Marvels - that's all I like and all I've ever bought... so you're saying that no one is interested in HG Bronze Marvels today?

 

You should really get that out as a special bulletin because I'm not sure the auction results agree with you.

 

Exactly how long have you been collecting comic books?

 

Since 1962, I have been buying all of the Silver Age books that everyone is now chasing, off the racks. i'm curious, did you buy them off the rack with the intention that they'd be the big time sellers they are today? (investing) or did you buy them to collect/own/read/enjoy? I also have been buying all of the Gerber 6's thru 9's (and someday 10's I hope) since the 90's.

 

So you're saying that those stupid silver age books that I did not like (from DC), I should have not purchased?

 

You really should check the "want to buy" section, just to see what people are looking for. Avengers 4, Early Spidey's, Early FF's, Early Actions and Batmans. Maybe some Goonies or Turner SS's. Not as many looking for Bronze things that you bought 10 of, as I am sure you did. he was trying to say that he bought what he wanted and it went up, so not only does he have what he wants, he has something that went up, either way he 'won' - you only won if it went up.

 

Nothing wrong with Bronze, if that is when you grew up. You apparently were a kid when Wolverine was introduced. I was a kid when Spiderman was introduced. And the FF, Avengers, Hulk, etc, etc.

 

Now, unless you were a kid when Superman and Batman were introduced, you can't tell me squat about comic books.- arrogant and mildly elitist.

What i'm sure you meant to say was, I've been collecting/selling/etc comics for 5 decades(not just hoarding), my experience speaks for itself. But can you say that? :shrug:

 

Edit: jumped in late, back on topic now.

 

Can someone fake it? Heck yes they can, a dedicated person could do it and get away with it too. i'm certain that cgc takes steps to prevent this but ultimately if it's just encapsulating a book and then sealing it they would need some way of making the label permanently sealed in and irremovable (- regardless of tamper evident etc, if someone makes their own identical slab you will not see tamper) else wise it is worth the effort if buying two books can get you double your money....

[conditionfreak]

Did your dad keep all of the books he bought? Does he still have any of them? Does he seek out and collect even to this day? Does he read about comic books every day? Is your dad a member of GPA? Doe she still have ASM #1 that he purchased off the rack, even though every year since then it was worth more than I paid for it, and the temptation was there, because hard times hit everyone (except maybe Paris Hilton and the like)?

 

My point being in essence, comic books have been a MAJOR part of my life since 1962 and before, and are still today. I collect every thing comic book, from the early 1900's up and to today. Check what I have bought from these boards, and I buy from all over the internet. I am not putting down someone who is younger and doesn't know what it meant to be in on the "ground floor" of the age of Marvel. But I was in on the start of silver, bronze, copper and modern, buying multiples. What I am saying, is that if someone wants to make it personal and insinuate that I am stupid for how I buy and what I buy, then they better be prepared to take me on in the field of comic books and debate. I have more rare comic books than Joe Collector ever thought about having. Why? Because I invest in them. I collect rare AND what I like. Not just one or the other. Joe makes it a point that he only collects what he likes.

 

Two different perspectives and both legitimate, but HE always makes it personal, by using terms like "lame" and such. There is a reason the Joe Collector is in ill repute with most on this board, and the board controllers also. His personality is lacking. I never start the mess, but I never back down either.

 

Now, if anyone else wants to debate the merits of buying comic books as investments, I will gladly go through the threads on this forum and pull up their comments and purchases, showing that they do the same thing. Or at the very least, would like to, if they only had the money.

 

No, no one can put me down for my collecting habits. Not even you FT.

 

When it comes to collecting comic books, I AM an elitist. That is why I use the name conditionfreak and not joe collector.

 

Steve Borock, and those others you mention, may know a lot more about comic books than I, but that is because they did it for a living or a part time job. I did not. I am a long term investor (really long term) and not a short term turnover kind of guy. I will have my collection basically intact, long after most of you have turned over your collection many times. The few times I list something here for sale, it is not quality stuff and I usually send it for free (and I pay the postage to boot), when someone shows an interest.

 

Dang gone Joe didn't even participate in the gift exchange, and we know his reasons for not doin so. Talk about LAME.

[conditionfreak]

I propose that a new thread is started, and that it consist of Joe and I posting a scan of a book that we currently own, and that we are proud of owning, each and every day until one of us runs out.

 

Then ya'll can decide who made the better purchases, for READING only. I won't even go to the investing part because it ain't even close.

 

C'mon Joe. It will be fun. I'm itching to start. Put up your Hulk 181 and I'll start with FF #1, or ASM 1 or maybe Batman 66 (a hilarious read).

[THE_BEYONDER]

I propose that a new thread is started, and that it consist of Joe and I posting a scan of a book that we currently own, and that we are proud of owning, each and every day until one of us runs out.

 

Then ya'll can decide who made the better purchases, for READING only. I won't even go to the investing part because it ain't even close.

 

C'mon Joe. It will be fun. I'm itching to start. Put up your Hulk 181 and I'll start with FF #1, or ASM 1 or maybe Batman 66 (a hilarious read).

 

A pizzing contest? Oh joy.....

[mikeyboy9000]

big rant

All the power to you, you collected many comics, you have a comic collection worth lots of money and you like it because it's worth lots of money while at the same time buying comics you like. What people where trying to get across is, IF this is THE reason you collect comics, you could be doing this in any business, and if you're proud of owning a FF#1 because it's wanted by so many people (as you come across) your 'quality' (for lack of a better word) as a collector is poor.

 

Trying to start some kind of peepee contest.

 

I never start the mess, but I never back down either.

 

[NewWorldOrder]

My collecting rationale is 50% Investment and 50% because I like them.

 

Thats keeps me active in this hobby.

 

If it wasn't for CGC I would not have come back into the hobby period.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Cant anyone start a thread anymore. The poor guy starts a new thread, one of his first and we get to a contest about who "wastes" money collecting and who doesnt. Get back on topic here CGC cases being tampered with.

 

If you guys want I will start a thread pertaining to investing vs. collecting and you guys can bicker there. Sound fair ?

[mikeyboy9000]

Thread firmly back ON the rails again:

 

Can someone fake a cgc slab?

 

Heck yes they can, a dedicated person could do it and get away with it too. Recreating the cgc case, while time consuming would eventually be easy to do.

 

I'm certain that cgc takes steps to prevent this but ultimately if it's just encapsulating a book and then sealing it they would need some way of making the label permanently sealed in and irremovable.

 

If not (even if it's laminated, it CAN be removed if it's worth the money/time) people will bust out those labels, put it into a dead set copy of cgc's slabs and bam send it off in a for all intents and purposes REAL slab with no signs of tampering (as it's brand new.

 

How does cgc stop it though? - holographic label for one. Tamper evident casing for another (though this wouldn't stop the scenario above)

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

No, no one can put me down for my collecting habits. Not even you FT.

 

I didn't? I didn't pass judgement on anything other than your presumption that age always = more knowledge.

 

That's all.

 

Collect whatever you like, in whatever way you like...so long as it makes you happy.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

No, no one can put me down for my collecting habits. Not even you FT.

 

I didn't? I didn't pass judgement on anything other than your presumption that age always = more knowledge.

 

That's all.

 

Collect whatever you like, in whatever way you like...so long as it makes you happy.

(thumbs u Im not old, but have a good amount of knowledge from the GA-MA. And look forward to learning more.

 

And Nick im surprised you dont have the video of Hammer showing how to monkey with the cgc case.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Cant anyone start a thread anymore. The poor guy starts a new thread, one of his first and we get to a contest about who "wastes" money collecting and who doesnt. Get back on topic here CGC cases being tampered with.

 

If you guys want I will start a thread pertaining to investing vs. collecting and you guys can bicker there. Sound fair ?

 

Sorry, Pat, but thread derailing seems to be fine with a lot of other boarders...who simply adding ing pointless graemlins ad nauseum to pad their worthless post count.

 

At least there's something of some substance being said, even if it isn't strictly in line with the original topic.

[comicwiz]

Cant anyone start a thread anymore. The poor guy starts a new thread, one of his first and we get to a contest about who "wastes" money collecting and who doesnt. Get back on topic here CGC cases being tampered with.

 

If you guys want I will start a thread pertaining to investing vs. collecting and you guys can bicker there. Sound fair ?

 

Sorry, Pat, but thread derailing seems to be fine with a lot of other boarders...who simply adding ing pointless graemlins ad nauseum to pad their worthless post count.

 

At least there's something of some substance being said, even if it isn't strictly in line with the original topic.

 

Wouldn't a potential switch require a forged label? Even if you could get around the holofoil stamp and the paper used, IMHO the fonts used on the old and new label would be a very difficult typeset to duplicate, if not impossible.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Cant anyone start a thread anymore. The poor guy starts a new thread, one of his first and we get to a contest about who "wastes" money collecting and who doesnt. Get back on topic here CGC cases being tampered with.

 

If you guys want I will start a thread pertaining to investing vs. collecting and you guys can bicker there. Sound fair ?

 

Sorry, Pat, but thread derailing seems to be fine with a lot of other boarders...who simply adding ing pointless graemlins ad nauseum to pad their worthless post count.

 

At least there's something of some substance being said, even if it isn't strictly in line with the original topic.

 

That kind of hurt my feelings....

[Bosco685]

Hi folks.

 

My main reason for starting this was not just for myself, but as you saw early on somewhere way back a few folks jumped on wanting a great education.

 

I'm very much a selfless individual when it comes to things like this, and try to protect fellow collectors from resellers that are shady when I can help those that want to listen.

 

Just wanted to see what education we all can gain in utilizing the vast amount o experience that exists on this forum. Especially if there are definite examples of what to look for.

 

Thanks again for the education and patience. It's all for the group's benefit!

[rodan57]

Cant anyone start a thread anymore. The poor guy starts a new thread, one of his first and we get to a contest about who "wastes" money collecting and who doesnt. Get back on topic here CGC cases being tampered with.

 

If you guys want I will start a thread pertaining to investing vs. collecting and you guys can bicker there. Sound fair ?

 

Sorry, Pat, but thread derailing seems to be fine with a lot of other boarders...who simply adding ing pointless graemlins ad nauseum to pad their worthless post count.

 

At least there's something of some substance being said, even if it isn't strictly in line with the original topic.

 

Hear, hear!